RadioRaheem84

Well the point is, that most people associate the treatment of the Palestinians to the treatment the Jews received during WWII and before the actual Final Solution, pre 1942.

I like how you pick out one part of that wall of text and try to make an argument of it. Maybe it has to do with me being German and the effects of Anti-Nazi conditioning in school and media, but I do think of the Third Reich as the final solution. It's inseparable to me. In fact I don't even make a distinction anymore. The Third Reich, the pogroms, the ghettos, etc. are all steps leading up to the Final Solution in my opinion. They are not the Final Solution, but they aren't separate actions either.

ups. I meant "B) I am asking people to not use the "reverse-holocaust" argument.", of course

C) I do not in any shape or form support the Israeli government, Anti-Arab racism, Jewish chauvinism / Jewish supremacy, or ethnic discrimination no matter what severity. I find it a sad byproduct of black-and-white thinking, as is expressed by such statements as "if you support Israel in any shape or form", which includes it's existence as a nation state regardless of government, "then you are a racist", that I have to clarify this so much. I find the Israeli government and it's policies disgusting. I have protested Israel on various occasions, and despite the crap spread in the thread, I'm not an Anti-German.

B) I am asking people to use the "reverse-holocaust" argument. I may be a bit over the top with emphasizing this, but it is commonly used by Neo-Nazis and Anti-Semites. I am aware that most people in the left don't mean it to be anti-semite, but it nevertheless creates these structures and attracts that kind of people. The German right is never so close to the left as when it comes to Israel. This is worrying, especially because a recent poll revealed that 15% of Germans have Anti-Semite attitudes (this is, sadly, no comparison to the figures of Islamophobes though). And I do consider your argument to be semantic. I am aware that you aren't comparing Israel to the final solution, but most people -including me- do think of the final solution when they hear stuff like "Israel = Nazi Germany", whether or not that was the writers intent. I would therefore like the argument to stop altogether. Israel can be easily criticized without

Those are not Third Reich death camps, are they? Look, I'm not defending the Israeli government, nor it's actions, I never have. I don't get where the fuck you have it from that I'm a Zionist. There are three points I am making here, which you seem to unable to distinguish from saying "Jews are a masterrace", for whatever reasons I don't know:

A) I think there would be some form apartheid/oppression under an Arab regime. Which doesn't mean that Arabs being oppressed is better than Jews being oppressed, but I would prefer a solution that involved neither. Obviously we all would favor a socialist revolution in Israel/Palestine, but how likely is that? It's more likely that some reactionary Palestinian force would repay what Israel did to it's former citizens. I therefore don't support the ad hoc abolition of the Israeli state. However, this is what the thread starter defined as "Zionism." I'm fairly certain that's not what you, or most people understand under Zionism.

I would love to see evidence of that cleansing, really. Where are the death camps?