Charles Xavier

If they are capable of organising them selves then they don't need leadership.

people who are corrupt or just want power for there own selfish reasons are indistinguishable from people who genuinely want to help.

also many, if not all leaders become corrupted by power, and there is no way of telling who will and who wont beforehand.

even if someone only want to lead fro the good of the people, they will be disconnected from the situation of the workers, and so less able to make good decisions.
At the same time it is in there material interest to consolidate there power and to reduce the power and influence of the workers.

Being removed from the dicision making process is dissempowering for the workers, and it alienates them from there work. they become less able to make decisions for themselves and more dependent on there leaders.

so leaders are not only unnecessary, they are harmful.

i said

"on the other hand i am convinced that the evidence shows that people are capable of organising themselves without leaders, you apparently do not understand the concept."


I really hope your a troll, i don't want to believe someone is really this stupid

It's not a matter of faith, it is impossible for the working class to hold state power.
1. the working class is defined by there relation to the means of production, if the workers hav control of the means of production then they cease to be the working class.
2. the state is a set of hierarchical, top down, institutions which facilitate the rule of a minority class. by definition the state is incabible of being controled by the overwhelming majority of the population.

no the other hand i am convinced that the evidence shows that people are capable of organising themselves without leaders, you aparently do not understand the concept.

it's not possible for the working class to control the state.

Hello.

according to you the working class are in power in "Cuba, Angola, Nicaragua, Chile, Soviet Union, Germany, Bulgaria, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Yugoslavia, Yemen, Poland, South Africa,"
i don't even need to respond to that.

yes, i decided that there is no point trying to discus any thing with some so determinedly stupid

this is your list of what you consider susesfull communist revolutions "Cuba, Angola, Nicaragua, Chile, Soviet Union, Germany, Bulgaria, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Yugoslavia, Yemen, Poland, South Africa,"

i don't think i need to say any more.