A Program

In regards to bridging the gap between anarchism and communism/socialism, I had put forward the following suggestions on another post. As the post itself may be useful, I'll provide a link:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/anarchism-...=1#post2478505

"Communism within Socialism

At the same time as socialism is taking place, the soviets are made largly independent. They will need to provide the vanguard with resources (within reason), because, as stated above, it may be necessary to build infrastructure or relieve a disaster.

This may be considered similar to what Mao did in the Great Leap Forward. He built communes, and they supplied what they could to the vanguard. However, we will try to skip the famine issue.

Anarchists standing for election

This just means that anarchists can stand for election in the soviets, and can work with and against the vanguard as such. They may, if they want to, join the vanguard."

Furthermore, on closing the Stalin-Trotsky divide, I wonder if it would be possible to unite socialism in one country and world revolution.

Stalin's "Socialism in one country" (which was in fact Lenin's socialism in one country) was never at odds with the goal of world revolution.

Stalin: "Mr. Campbell still further stretches the truth when he puts such words into the mouth of Stalin as that "under Trotsky there had been an attempt to spread communism throughout the world; that this was the primary cause of the break between hirnself [i.e., Stalin] and Trotsky; that Trotsky believed in universal communism, while he [Stalin] worked to confine his efforts to his own country." Only people who have deserted to the camp of the Kautskys and the Welses can believe such stuff and nonsense, in which the facts are turned upside-down."
http://marxists.org/reference/archiv...1932/11/30.htm

Anyway, from what I've seen most Stalinists that are real MLs (and not nationalists or sectarian role-player types) are ready to shut up about Trotsky's misdeeds and talk over the matters at hand, if only the Trotskyists could shut up about Stalin's supposed "betrayal of the revolution". But the Trotskyists are unable to get over their historical issues and repetitively demand the Stalinists to recant and repent, which reignites the holywar every time, which by itself, quite ironically, reaffirms the Stalinists' conviction that Trotskyism is nothing but the no. 1 way to wreck the communist movement.

Stalin's "Socialism in one country" (which was in fact Lenin's socialism in one country) was never at odds with the goal of world revolution.

Stalin: "Mr. Campbell still further stretches the truth when he puts such words into the mouth of Stalin as that "under Trotsky there had been an attempt to spread communism throughout the world; that this was the primary cause of the break between hirnself [i.e., Stalin] and Trotsky; that Trotsky believed in universal communism, while he [Stalin] worked to confine his efforts to his own country." Only people who have deserted to the camp of the Kautskys and the Welses can believe such stuff and nonsense, in which the facts are turned upside-down."
http://marxists.org/reference/archiv...1932/11/30.htm

Anyway, from what I've seen most Stalinists that are real MLs (and not nationalists or sectarian role-player types) are ready to shut up about Trotsky's misdeeds and talk over the matters at hand, if only the Trotskyists could shut up about Stalin's supposed "betrayal of the revolution". But the Trotskyists are unable to get over their historical issues and repetitively demand the Stalinists to recant and repent, which reignites the holywar every time, which by itself, quite ironically, reaffirms the Stalinists' conviction that Trotskyism is nothing but the no. 1 way to wreck the communist movement.

I'd personally prefer it if you didn't stereotype Trotskyist's like that. As you may be able to see, I do not fit that description.

That said, I've been getting involved with the FI on facebook recently, I'll bring up the topic of uniting the left. I believe, that as the FI (USFI) has adopted a pluralist approach to revolution, it will have no problem.

On the point of the World Revolution, I still believe that we cannot purely focus on advancing socialism in our own country and completely ignore the rest of the World. Having capitalist neighbors will inevitably cause problems (such as war), no matter how you look at it. Even Mao, one of Stalin's greatest supporters (who hated Khrushchev for denouncing him), agreed that we cannot focus on our own country, and ignore the rest of the world. As such, I stand by what I had said before, we must find the ground to create socialism in our own country, and at the same time, pursue worldwide revolution, by means of assisting and instigating workers struggles.

Yes the difference being that Stalin had no desire to confine socialism to one country either. I really think that historical issues have to be, essentially ignored if a party is to be unified. Left coms, anarchists, and trotskyists all have a pretty strong opposition to Stalin that many of them will not budge on. In my opinion the best way to unite the left would be to host a summit of all the legitimate workers parties within each country, and throughout the world and try to set up a program that everyone agreed upon.

Zulu's response is quite correct in my opinion. Though you, Aussie Trotskyist, do not fit the description, many on this site especially do. We have a surplus of "closet" ML's so to speak who take favorable stances on Leninist theory, though conceal this to avoid opposition.

Yes the difference being that Stalin had no desire to confine socialism to one country either. I really think that historical issues have to be, essentially ignored if a party is to be unified. Left coms, anarchists, and trotskyists all have a pretty strong opposition to Stalin that many of them will not budge on. In my opinion the best way to unite the left would be to host a summit of all the legitimate workers parties within each country, and throughout the world and try to set up a program that everyone agreed upon.

Zulu's response is quite correct in my opinion. Though you, Aussie Trotskyist, do not fit the description, many on this site especially do. We have a surplus of "closet" ML's so to speak who take favorable stances on Leninist theory, though conceal this to avoid opposition.

I've put forward the idea of working with MLs and Zulu's comments to the USFI on facebook. So far, I have not had a reply. I will be getting in contact with one of them soon (ish), so I'll directly ask him then. Nonetheless, I still believe that the USFI will support the notion of working with MLs, as they have already accepted pluralism. I will quote a personal conversation (with the FI on facebook) I had a while ago.

"We support pluralism: parties which in practice respect the working of workers' democracy should be legal. After the socialist revolution there's no reason to think that everyone will become a Trotskyist. There will be other currents of opinion in the workers' movement."

I will also point out that I am personally critical of Stalin, but am happy to work with anyone of the revolutionary left (and unions), and accept their beliefs. I just wanted to make sure nobody mistook my beliefs.

Also, my personal suggestion on how to make this movement work, would be to form a 'coalition' of revolutionary left organisations. This coalition will be led by a council from all the parties.

I'll give an analogy, because I like to have my ideas clearly expressed.

Say Australia (because I know some of the parties here) has a colation. It is made up of the Communist Party of Australia (CPA), the Socialist Equality Party (SEP), the Socialist Alliance (SA) and the Socialist Alternative (S Alt) (in reality, there would be more than this). Each of these parties presents one or two candidates to represent them in the council. These representatives will be replaced every so often (to try any avoid any form of oligarchy). Directly beneath this council is the 'cabinet', made up of the ministers/commissars (for defense, environment etc). These ministers are elected by soviet democracy.

I personally believe the justice system (which will probably become obsolete or minor) should be separate from government, so as to avoid unnecessary purges.

However, despite this, it must be made clear that the Soviets will maintain control. They will retain the right to call an election to replace cabinet members at any time.

In the practical world, to avoid a split, or the dominance of one of the parties, this coalition will maintain a firm set of rules (a constitution if you will), that can only be changed if the majority of the soviets and council (Say 75%, this will need to be discussed) support the amendments (so as to avoid changing it to one party's will).

Here, we will set out the draft for the constitution of the International. Each nation will need to modify this to suit their own situation.

Of course, I am happy to hear criticism (constructive), as I am not in any position to claim to be an expert on this issue.

Also, on another point, we may need to start recording our developments here. We don't want this to become 50 pages long, only to find out we haven't made a document containing everything we have come to agree on.

And another point, that may warrant a new section. We may wish to start publicising this a bit more. As you may know, I've added a link to this page in my signature in an attempt to advertise this movement. However, I'm also thinking we could set up a Facebook page, to try and attract some more people to this movement (as small as it currently is). It worked for the "Coffee Party".

I've also come across another group trying to unite the left. The United Anti-Capitalist League seems to share our ideals. I believe that we need to get into contact with any other group sharing our goals of unity of the left so that we can all channel our efforts into creating this common ground. Otherwise, it may be possible that the various groups attempting to unite the left may end up with different programs, and as such, ironically, disunite the left once again.

Positivist has asked me to post a link to the FI page on facebook.

Please note that this is not a revleft page (one does exist, but it still has not accepted my request).

Here it is:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/2357197375/

Other than uniting wih marxists-leninists, I think that the trotskyist international should unite with the ICC and IWW. I've been thinking of making a facebook page called "Campaign for a United Opposition to Capitalism." We could invite all relevant party groups and start putting together plans to host national, and local, workers unity summits.

Other than uniting wih marxists-leninists, I think that the trotskyist international should unite with the ICC and IWW. I've been thinking of making a facebook page called "Campaign for a United Opposition to Capitalism." We could invite all relevant party groups and start putting together plans to host national, and local, workers unity summits.

I am In complete agreement. I would create said page now, if I could (I'm not at home right now, and only have a few minutes on the Internet.

I'll happily create it when I get home, and will notify you of it on this page. Or if anyone else wishes to make it, go ahead.

And still no reply from the FI.

Yea I might make it but I'm not sure we should make it just yet. Maybe we should consider setting up a website with a drafted missions statement or something of the sort first.

Alsoit may help to check out the cpgb website, because they have a similar initiative going.

If the CPGB is attempting a similar course of action, we should get into contact with them. I can see how they may be able to help us, as they may have some more professional leftists at their disposal. That said, we can't just let one party or tendency decide the course of this movement.

With that in mind, we may wish to contact more than just one party (if we follow through with this plan). I know a few Australian parties that I can contact, all of which maintain different tendencies.

Furthermore, we may be able to get some assistance with making a website from these guys, as they (clearly) have their own. As I stated in my visitor message, I'm hopeless with technology.

I might know someone with computer skills who is interested in left untidy.

I might know someone with computer skills who is interested in left untidy.

Great, that's more than I can offer.

I know someone that is studying web design, but he wouldn't be interested at all, and I don't want to try and force it on him.

Also, weren't we were trying to tidy up the left?

I'm sorry, I couldn't help but make a joke about your typo, please don't take it personally.

Hahahahah oh its ok hahaha it was a good one.

Hi guys! I agree with most of the things that you previously said and I would like to add some of mine for how to start and maintain the revolution.

If all the left parties and tendencies join each other and create a big party that will bring security to the masses that the left is here to stay and they're not just kidding around like old times.

At the same time if we want to make a DotP and make people join this left coalition we must make them see the true face of capitalism. If they see how bad and twisted capitalism is they won't want to be a part of it. So what will the do? They will join the opponent of capitalism 'tadaaaa' communism.

How can we show them the true face of capitalism? We can start making videos (I think the North Korean video for western propaganda is a quite good example and it will be more effective if another country does it). Videos is a good way to aproach young people
(we're all the time on the internet). I don't know exactly how we are going to attact people's attention so they can watch these videos because I'm not a professional psycologist nor an advertiser.

In addition the DotP should have a democratic formation (as you previously said) with syndicates or soviets or whatever else that looks like these. The thing is that I'm not quite sure if people around the world will be ready for so many political freedoms and decisions. I'm stuck at this spot of how we maintain the DotP without getting it corrupted.

I hope I helped a little bit.

Hi guys! I agree with most of the things that you previously said and I would like to add some of mine for how to start and maintain the revolution.

If all the left parties and tendencies join each other and create a big party that will bring security to the masses that the left is here to stay and they're not just kidding around like old times.

At the same time if we want to make a DotP and make people join this left coalition we must make them see the true face of capitalism. If they see how bad and twisted capitalism is they won't want to be a part of it. So what will the do? They will join the opponent of capitalism 'tadaaaa' communism.

How can we show them the true face of capitalism? We can start making videos (I think the North Korean video for western propaganda is a quite good example and it will be more effective if another country does it). Videos is a good way to aproach young people
(we're all the time on the internet). I don't know exactly how we are going to attact people's attention so they can watch these videos because I'm not a professional psycologist nor an advertiser.

In addition the DotP should have a democratic formation (as you previously said) with syndicates or soviets or whatever else that looks like these. The thing is that I'm not quite sure if people around the world will be ready for so many political freedoms and decisions. I'm stuck at this spot of how we maintain the DotP without getting it corrupted.

I hope I helped a little bit.

Well, we're not up to spreading propaganda toward the masses yet, however, I've just gotten an invitation from a group that is looking to raise class consciousness: http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1019

Also, I'd like to make sure that you know this group isn't just trying to unite all communists, we want to try and appeal to anarchists and socialists as well.

And my suggestion to avoid corruption is to try and stop one tendency from taking more power than the others, and limit the power of the party (giving 'all power to the soviets').

Is anything still going on here

I think Aussie made a bullz eye here,

Is anything still going on here

I think Aussie made a bullz eye here,

Where?

I believe that the vanguard is the organization of the class conscioussness section of the proletariat, and as such is the appropriate body to take on number of governmental roles. While I maintain the belief in the integration of the entire working claw into the management if the state through workers councils, I also believe that in times of civil strife, it may be necessary for the vanguard to take control of the functions usually assigned to the councils. Though ut is imperative that the vanguard retain its own democracy during this period.

Are we supposed to expect the vanguard to maintain it's democracy?

Where?

Yeah, good question. I'd like to know exactly what I'm being complimented on.

Also, is there much activity going on here anymore, or is this page dead?

I suppose we could restart the conversation about leftist unity in either case.

Are we supposed to expect the vanguard to maintain it's democracy?

Well, the vanguard will be made up of several tendencies (from my proposals), so really, it could maintain its own democratic system, but I think that the vanguard would split on near every issue.

I think that to counter this, we need to somehow agree on a short term, loose alliance between parties and tendencies. To avoid internal collapse, and secure a workers democracy, the vanguard will have control over numerous domestic issues (in order to assist in suppressing the bourgeoisie etc) for a set period of time (2-5 years?). When this time is up, almost all domestic issues will be handled by the soviets.