For Beginners

  1. Brosa Luxemburg
    Brosa Luxemburg
    This thread is for those who do not understand what the DOTP is and want to understand it better.

    The dictatorship of the proletariat is understood best in terms of class struggle. The state is an organ of class rule. That means, as long as classes exist then the state will exist. The dictatorship of the proletariat is a transition stage in which classes and the state will exist, but will be systematically abolished by the proletariat dictatorship. The proletariat will destroy the bourgeois dictatorship and establish its own dictatorship to suppress the bourgeoisie, suppress violent counter-revolutionaries, and eventually abolish classes.

    How would the dictatorship of the proletariat work? We do not know. We can look at the examples of history (I would argue that Stalinist Russia, China, Vietnam, etc. were not dictatorships of the proletariat. Think the Paris Commune, Russia in 1917, 1918, 1919, etc.) but overall we will not know how the dictatorship of the proletariat will work until such material conditions present themselves. We can speculate on what it might look like. Most argue that the proletariat would actively participate through organs such as the soviets in the administration of the state, some (such as me) see the party as a centralizing force in such a society, etc. Again, this is all just speculation though.

    Engels claimed that the Paris Commune was the closest thing to an example of the DOTP. The workers and people there had great control over their destinies, yet had not reached socialism.

    For some reading on the DOTP:

    A Letter from Karl Marx to Joseph Weydemer. In this, Marx says this...
    Now, as for myself, I do not claim to have discovered either the existence of classes in modern society or the struggle between them. Long before me, bourgeois historians had described the historical development of this struggle between the classes, as had bourgeois economists their economic anatomy. My own contribution was (1) to show that the existence of classes is merely bound up with certain historical phases in the development of production; (2) that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat; [and] (3) that this dictatorship, itself, constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.
  2. Q
    Q
    Note that there are different views as to the dotp -> socialism -> communism view as separate phases. This article might help shed some light on this issue. It essentially argues that such separate phases really don't exist. A quote:

    The conclusion from these points is that, assuming the proletariat takes political power in the next 40-50 years, there will still be a substantial period of transition which falls between the complete overthrow of the global capitalist state system and the fully collective appropriation of the means of production (communism). This period of transition is properly the dictatorship of the proletariat, the class rule of the proletariat over the surviving petty bourgeoisie and small capital, in a contradictory economic order in which those means of production which the capitalists have already ‘socialised’ are collectively appropriated, but the participants in this collective appropriation have to trade with substantial groups of petty bourgeois and some small capitalists, who are politically subordinated to the proletarian majority.

    The period can also be called for short-hand ‘socialism’, as we do in the CPGB Draft programme, provided it is clear that by ‘socialism’ we mean this transitional period of working class rule over other subsisting classes, and not a separate stage standing between the dictatorship of the proletariat and communism. ‘Dictatorship of the proletariat’ is in my opinion scientifically superior because it expresses the fact that the petty bourgeoisie and small capital continue to exist in this period, but are institutionally subordinated to the proletariat as a class.
    (italic by author. bold by me).

    I recommend the reading whole article.
  3. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    The broader context was CPGB comrade Mike Macnair engaging in polemics with comrade Paul Cockshott.

    Economically speaking, though, they do seem to be three or even four separate phases, especially if one were to distinguish between the lower phase of the communist mode of production and "socialism" on the basis of the existence in the latter of generalized commodity production or even outright "state-capitalist monopoly made to benefit the whole people" (Lenin). Cockshott addressed this in the Czech preface to his "socialism" book.
  4. Rooster
    The DotP is the attainment of political power by the proletariat and the form that this takes was, according to Marx and Engels, found in the Paris Commune. A form that is one of maximum direct democracy with instant recall. It is not socialist, as Marx says:

    the majority of the Commune was in no sense socialist, nor could it be.
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...s/81_02_22.htm

    It is the first step towards the emancipation of mankind. As soon as the proletariat is in a position to emancipate itself, then it will. As Engels notes in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific

    The proletariat seizes political power and turns the means of production into State property.

    But, in doing this, it abolishes itself as proletariat, abolishes all class distinction and class antagonisms, abolishes also the State as State. Society, thus far, based upon class antagonisms, had need of the State.
    It is transitory and Engels believed that this revolution would have to happen quickly, which he mentions much earlier in 1847 in his Principles of Communism

    Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone?

    No. By creating the world market, big industry has already brought all the peoples of the Earth, and especially the civilized peoples, into such close relation with one another that none is independent of what happens to the others.
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...1/prin-com.htm

    Some would claim this to be out of date but the prepositions here, as far as I can, still apply. This is the jump of point from the complete socialisation of labour which then must lead to removal of the private appropriation of the capitalist class, because it will, if it already hasn't, will reach a point where the capitalist class is a hindrance to the increasing productive forces.
  5. Brosa Luxemburg
    Brosa Luxemburg
    This is also a good article for beginners.
    http://www.isreview.org/issues/81/cr...ernative.shtml
  6. Rooster
    Personally, I think the idea of the proletariat dictatorship is misleading when it's being equated to a dictatorship state like a bourgeois one. Alternative power structures, like the soviets and commune, is I think more close to that. The concentration of the means of production in the hands of this state, one that is very democratic, becomes different in form. In essence, it's the workers expropriating the means of production for themselves. So, in this instance, this thing is very transitory, leading to the almost complete abolition of the proletariat practically as soon as it expropriates the means of production. The concept of the state becoming stronger and at the same time being able to whither away, I think, comes down to the power of the proletariat to be both the executive and legislative at the same time within these forms of state, one that I think would benefit from a decentralised position. This means that workers in a factory or enterprise could vote on something and then carry out the action themselves.
  7. Q
    Q
    Note: Since the CPGB updated their website, the old link of my post in April is broken and will refer to the homepage. This is the new link.