TWCS slapstick humour

And now, for some self-deprecating humour:

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And what a stage--he only left out Louis Bonaparte, Juan Peron, and various Ayatollahs from his central committee of goons, clowns, and thugs.
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Yeah... and when he's using all those goons and thugs to do all those things... and then those unimpressed proletarian workers--you know, the ones losing their jobs in the auto plants, or the ones whose kids are growing up next to lead and nickel smelters... when those workers go on strike, and those same goons and thugs get turned against them...

Then what do you say? Do you give the old mantra about Caesarism, managed democracy, focoism (!), coops, circuses, and coupons for cut rate cigarettes?
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It doesn't work like that. You don't get to any "second stage" once you've hitched your wagon to the horse with the man on its back, even if he's in a chariot rather than on the horse directly.
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Right on both counts-- you propose a 4th party, one that is capable of, and engages in, cheerleading support for the little Caesar.
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Bet on it. And therefore we get pseudo-Marxists reliving and repeating the stupidity, the arrogance, the capitulation, and the enforcement of capitalist accumulation of their long-gone "Marxist" heroes.

It's enough to gag a maggot.
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DNZ= Doesn't Know Zhit
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Now I know all of that is irrelevant. I know that there's nothing that makes your heart go pitty-pat like a man in uniform all dressed up and looking for his horse, but you know what?

[...]

Don't take this personally, but I really don't like you.
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And saying the petit-bourgeois are not going to "March on Rome" or Brussels, or New York to hail Caesar is not contempt.
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That's enough to gag a maggot-- a so called socialist, proletariocrat or whatever the fuck he calls himself, the horse's ass, the big admirer of Kautsky, the flogger of "Marches on Rome" and "petit-bourgeois" anti-everything, comes out, and I do mean comes out of his little neutralist closet all dressed up in jackboots and riding crop [...]

Yeah slave labor is a real plus.
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My only comment to you is "fuck you, asshole. You have no idea what you are talking about."
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<<<<<I'd add that special emphasis should be put on what DNZ counts as big negative - popular front.>>>>>

I think special emphasis should be put on DNZ as a big negative
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He thinks he's talking about utility, when he's really talking about value-- he's getting the surplus labor at below subsistence costs, Die Neue Dr. Mengele is. Of course that he doesn't grasp the distinction between use value and value here is totally consistent with the rest of his vicious idiocy.

Slow and painful deaths as lab rats? Who the fuck let this fucking Nazi in the room?

[...]

Given conditions in the markets, much more value could be obtained in exchange if the [state] killed these worthless dregs, these parasites, outright and then simply harvested their organs. Hey 15,000 people in the US alone die each year awaiting kidney transplants. Christ our Kautskyshite could corner the whole damn market.

"Strip 'em and Rip 'em" could replace "Arbeit Macht Frei" on Die Alte Zeit's labor camps.

And then, after harvesting the organs, we could knock the gold out of their teeth, render the fat from their bodies, use their hair to soak up oil spills, and don't forget what cool lampshades their skin will make.
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No, that's you, asshole. Fuck off, Dr. Mengele and take your slow painful death with you.
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I'm sorry, did I say Dr. Mengele? I should have said Dr. I.G. Farben. In either case, fuck off.
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Here's a thought. I'm not flame-baiting anyone. You've got a clown here who pretends he's a socialist and finding of slave labor, and painfully working people to death because of their non-conformity to the demands of property a "positive."

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Why don't you get rid of Nazi creep?

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And if that bothers you too much, you can ban me from this place [...] I would be honored to be disqualified from participating in what is obviously a circle jerk of those eagerly awaiting the opportunity to be goons and thugs.

The problem isn't that I told this strutting little Beria wannabe to fuck-off
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But in any case, you don't argue rationally with someone who disavows reality with statements like that creep's. You identify him, or her, as a thug, goon, slug.
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I responded to DNZ in this thread because he made the claim in his little sing-song, "On the one hand" "On the other hand" cost benefit pseudo analysis.

See, it's really not that complicated. A smug, pontificating, pseudo-Marxist jerk who stacks his CV with absurdities steps out his "Kautskyshite" closet to say slave labor, working people to a slow and painful death, is a "good thing." So I tell this Martha Stewart of the Gulag to fuck off. What part of that is so complicated it needs further explanation?

[...]

And it's pure bullshit in thinking that such a system can be enforced without including the rest of DNZ's little homage to Arbeit Macht Frei-- slow and painful death, starvation, inadequate medical care, torture, beatings... etc.
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This jerk is the true class enemy, the serious counterrevolutionary, the would-be mass murderer, and capital defender.
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All of this pining and whining for a Caesar is just another refraction of the antipathy of petty-bourgeois poseurs to the proletariat's revolution.
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No, that's not the "transitional consensus," since the point of transition is transformation, that is to say actions taken by organs of workers power; class-specific power, not your hodge-podge petty-bourgeois horse on manback junk populist neo-Stalinism.
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You can't make this up.

Yeah lighten up. Quit being so serious about this stuff of dictatorship and authoritarian wished for little Caesars who, along with Bismarck, Peron, Vargas, Mugabe, Nasser, Cardenas, blahblahblahblah will do for the working class what the working class "could never do for itself."

[...]

If DNZ could find a third side to his mouth, he'd talk out of that one too.
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Opportunism-- sums it all up. Hey, would you like a Bismarck with your Caesar Salad?
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Wonderful. Ferdinand Lassalle shake hands with Father Gapon. What this has to do with the working class-for-itself that DNZ so proudly attributed to his little Caesar Lassalle is a bit obscure, but I'm sure DNZ has a rather unique interpretation of class-for-itself that fits in quite nicely with paternalist peoples' monarchy.
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Your ridiculous tub-thumping for pseudo "state-socialists" is in reality nothing but flogging for capitalist corporatism.
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Hey schmuck [...] You don't think that the expropriation without compensation; confinement to region, territory, and specific farm amount to a form of slavery-- right, I forgot, that's primitive socialist accumulation.
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<<<<<It's all about protection from shepherds and their flocks gone astray, marauders, etc. They want to be left alone, but since the shepherds and marauders may be more heavily armed, they need to resort to some central authority for protection. In exchange, there's absolutism and a cult of personality regarding the central authority.>>>>>

Listen to this fucking arrogant ignorance-- it's all about shepherds and flocks. What a crock. Right they resort to some central authority for protection. Like the Czar. Like the King. Don't forget the Madonna.

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First, let's try and not retreat from what the French and Russian Revolutions demonstrated about the differentiation of the peasantry; about the class divisions being introduced into the peasantry in the very midst of the "benign" protection offered by the little father.

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And let's not forget what social relations were "being protected" by those great advocates of "socialism at a snail's pace" and "love for the peasantry,"-- those relations of petty capitalism, which proved incapable of sustaining agricultural productivity and industrial growth and thus led itself into being forcibly and violently expropriated by those who just a minute ago where professing such uncontempt for the peasantry.
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All peasants protected by the great-Russian father from such nasty business.

You are just so full of shit..............
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I think those are perfect examples of exactly where your fantasy of the "best of Putin, Bismarck, Lassalle.....etc" gets a revolution-- which is, best case, exactly nowhere; most cases, backwards.
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Look who's shown up? And with his standard distorted attacks, while not a world offered about the actual history of international revolutions, the actual undermining of those struggles by those he would love to attach his tattered, square-wheeled Caesarean chariot to.
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Yeah, you got some real comprehensive solutions-- hooking up with state capitalists, so-called radicals, and dreams of Julius Caesar. Genius at comprehensive solutions you are. Back on your chariot, Julius and roll the fuck out of here.
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Down goes Frazier! I mean Caesar.
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I just think one or two people who think there is anything "progressive" about Lukashenko's mini-Brezhnevism might be interested in the fact that this micro-emperor has no olive leaves.
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And now, for some self-deprecating humour:

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And what a stage--he only left out Louis Bonaparte, Juan Peron, and various Ayatollahs from his central committee of goons, clowns, and thugs.
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Yeah... and when he's using all those goons and thugs to do all those things... and then those unimpressed proletarian workers--you know, the ones losing their jobs in the auto plants, or the ones whose kids are growing up next to lead and nickel smelters... when those workers go on strike, and those same goons and thugs get turned against them...

And this, Brosa, inspired my "goons and thugs" discussion re. what you called vigilante groups for dealing with liberal opposition.

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<<<<<It's all about protection from shepherds and their flocks gone astray, marauders, etc. They want to be left alone, but since the shepherds and marauders may be more heavily armed, they need to resort to some central authority for protection. In exchange, there's absolutism and a cult of personality regarding the central authority.>>>>>

Listen to this fucking arrogant ignorance-- it's all about shepherds and flocks. What a crock. Right they resort to some central authority for protection. Like the Czar. Like the King. Don't forget the Madonna.

The poster was too Euro-centric, methinks. With regards to exercising executive power over the rest of the executive, he would have been more spot-on if he compared this "neo-patrimonial" power or "patrimonial authority coexisting alongside quite modern and routine forms of high-level decision making" (Gorlitzki) with the executive power of a Sultanate, a Khanate, or a "Nihon Kokuo" that would have been established had Japanese unifier Oda Nobunaga lived on to unify the land completely.

Right on both counts-- you propose a 4th party, one that is capable of, and engages in, cheerleading support for the little Caesar.

I lolled here. It seems this user doesn't really understand the role of the communist party in TWCS. It is not for "cheerleading" the state, but to help suppress remnants of the former bourgeoisie and organize the newly emerging proletariat majority for the overhaul/overthrow of the TWCS state.

My only comment to you is "fuck you, asshole. You have no idea what you are talking about."

Ah, isn't it great when people respond like this? Just makes for a lively discussion.

Here's a thought. I'm not flame-baiting anyone. You've got a clown here who pretends he's a socialist and finding of slave labor, and painfully working people to death because of their non-conformity to the demands of property a "positive."

Lol, I don't remember the essence of TWCS being slavery? I guess rhetoric is much more important when you can't make a good argument.

Yeah, you got some real comprehensive solutions-- hooking up with state capitalists, so-called radicals, and dreams of Julius Caesar. Genius at comprehensive solutions you are. Back on your chariot, Julius and roll the fuck out of here.

This user seems to think the state capitalism, especially with the absence of the bourgeoisie, cannot be progressive. I find this sentiment false, especially for underdeveloped nations, where such a step would be extremely progressive.

^^^ Actually, he was referring to a controversial take of mine regarding crime and punishment, but that's a separate discussion.

Another former poster:

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I just don't like jargon like Bloc of Four Classes in the first place. Why bother with it at all? And why not start a proposal from the point of view of "these non-proletarians are being subject to class repression from the international capitalists and imperial system according to David Harvey, maybe they have a political role to play beside proletarians?" Instead you start out with jargon, sectarianism against Maoists, Hoxhaists, and Trotskyists, and a confusing and seemingly highly anti-socialist pastiche of strongmen. Even if it has an internal logic to it, it certainly bad pitching.
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The Tribunal Assembly did not have the managerial capacity you assign to it; they could not meaningfully keep a Caesar responsible. This has been explained, I do not know why you are being obtuse and refusing to even acknowledge this subject. I would almost find this theory of yours somewhat sympathetic in limited respects, if it wasn't for your bizarre and inexplicable need to connect it seemingly randomly selected strongmen and autocrats and mish-mash anachronistically and without a basis for the class relations in each case to some completely artificial and unsubstantiated (to an equal extent as "permanent revolution" and "New Democracy" and their shared "leaderships" of the peasantry, to say nothing of the empirical reality of Russian Revolution and the Chinese Civil War and after) class bloc you made up in your head.
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DNZ is just making up bullshit history in his head in order to apologize for a peculiar kind of ex nihilo politics where the working-class should surrender political initiative in the Third World to Lukashenko-type figures provided they base themselves on a class base unheard of in the historical record, as a substitute for communist politics where they lack the demographic majority.
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You've gone off the deep end with your neo-Aristotlean blathering about "monarchy" + "democracy" attacks "aristocracy" or some such shit. Certainly bears no resemblance to working class left politics.
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But I suppose this is too much "mere labor struggle" for you, so better to double-down on the low-rent populist strongmen based on deliberate misrepresentations of bad histories of middle antiquity. As has been pointed out to you endless times, perhaps there is a reason why NONE of the strongmen you list in your little pamphlet have featured working-class independence beneath them; perhaps it is because precisely their class function is to stamp out working-class independent political action with populist authoritarianism? Nah, couldn't be. That might be inconvenient.
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I also have continually noticed that DNZ ignores that each of the figures he claims as inspirational - Chavez, Castro-Guevara, Lukashenko, Sankara, ad nauseum - none of them exhibited anything close to the "working-class political independence" he posits as an essential prerequisite to all this. Maybe because these type of regimes existed expressly to displace and head off working-class struggles in favor of one or another variety of strongman populism. Seems pretty elementary to me - you don't get to mix and match these features.
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DNZ pays not attention to the fact that neither Mao, nor Focoism, nor Breakthrough Military Coups have ever yielded a system which tolerates working-class political independence, and that's probably because the class interests behind them are directly antagonistic towards it. His non-existent class alliance I suppose is supposed to not regard the working-class as a threat to its hegemony over the state, but it somehow very much does regard neoliberals as such, and is to neutralize them.
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B-b-b-because there were some farmers!

DNZ thinks if the industrial proletariat + rural proletarians isn't a 50%+1 majority, then there cannot be a working-class power (which is linked to his commitment to a system of statistical random sampling to fill decision-making bodies). So if there are just too many peasants, who looooovvveee strongman dictators who order them around and kick around landlords, then we should have a proper "Caesarian" strongman.
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The Tribal Assembly was a dead institution by Caesar's strongmanship, as has been explained to you ad nauseum before (I am sure you will go on ignoring this, and presenting out-of-context Gramsci and Parenti quotations rather than actual historical scholarships - disgracefully dubbed 'gentlemen's history' - though). The only possible function it could serve is by mobilizing clients via patronage for artificial public displays of political support.
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