Marxism-Leninism and conspiracy theories

I've had this little exchange with Comrade Commistar recently, and he kind of put Marxism_Leninism completely at odds with conspiracy theories.

I, on the contrary, think that being a "conspiracy theorist" is fundamentally wrong only when you explain the entire reality and history by some kind of perpetual conspiracy, by the Illuminati, or the Freemasonry, or extraterrestrial reptoids or whatever else mysterious or outright fantastic entity. But as long as you maintain the general outlook of historical materialism, there is nothing wrong with explaining this or that particular historical event or development in a way that would be labeled a "conspiracy theory" because it does in some way not follow the official/traditional version of events.

As long as we accept the theory that each class may (and usually does) have some kind of a "vanguard", that is the most conscious representatives of its interests, it's only natural to assume that such "vanguards" will undertake some actions to tilt the scales of history in favor of the respective classes, and the multitude of those actions will include some to be organized and/or performed in secrecy. Unsurprisingly, Lenin was often accused of Blanquism, and although he maintained that it would be an erroneous tactic to follow, he did not dismiss it as a completely unfeasible one, and at least some of the elements of the revolutionary action were performed in the form of conspiracy (what with all the pseudonyms anyway??). In fact, Lenin even used the "Oh, look, they're crackpot conspiracy theorists!" kind of rhetoric to counter the accusations...

Likewise, many modern events, especially those associated with terrorism, although having socio-economic roots and premises, can be consciously and deliberately facilitated by the "vanguard" of the world financial oligarchy - in order to pursue and advance its class interests of maintaining control and continuing extraction of the surplus value from the toiling masses labor, by keeping the public distracted and the world proletariat divided over artificial and misleading issues.

Anyway, I was curious, what you comrades think specifically on the 9/11 being an "inside job" and Osama bin Laden not really being terminated a year ago (probably died sometime earlier, or, less likely, retired and lives happily on on a pension on some Pacific island) theories...

I don't agree with "conspiracy theorists" to be honest, however I think they should be taken on a case by case basis (even if most are batshit). If we look at various false flag operations and illegal government experiments (MKULTRA being the most famous) then we can see there are sometimes devious things going on... however, Reptilians are not ruling the world, George W. Bush was not a Satanist and the Jews do not have a conspiracy to enslave mankind (making them either in-league with or fighting against the Reptilians?).

I am not sure why everyone is saying that Osama Bin Laden is hiding out in some tropical paradise, he actually lives and works in Gateshead as a supermarket manager... keep up!

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...nin_bumped_off

Here's a conspiracy for you.

Trotsky claimed that Lenin asked Stalin about procurring poison. Of course he never said that Stalin poisoned Lenin, but a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
A good conspiracy theorist is like that, just enough information to cast a doubt.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...nin_bumped_off

Here's a conspiracy for you.

Trotsky claimed that Lenin asked Stalin about procurring poison. Of course he never said that Stalin poisoned Lenin, but a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
A good conspiracy theorist is like that, just enough information to cast a doubt.

This conspiracy theory is currently discussed on the main board, but it was actually Stalin himself who reported Lenin's wish to get poison and Stalin said he wouldn't procure it, despite his promise to Lenin.

Oh I'm not suggesting for one moment that Stalin killed off Lenin. Simply how Trotskists are ready to accept it on the basis of a vague suggestion by their hero.

Meh in all honesty conspiracy theories seem rather grandiose for me. However the 9/11 "inside job" conspiracy did facinate me for a while though. I've also never heard of the Osama Bin Laden one where he supposdely lives on some random island in the Pacific.

The thing about conspiracy theories is, is that while they can be mind opening and fun to explore, a lot of them are simple flights of fancy with no real credible evidence for them what's so ever.

I've also never heard of the Osama Bin Laden one where he supposdely lives on some random island in the Pacific.

Well, you've heard it now, go spread the word!

a lot of them are simple flights of fancy with no real credible evidence for them what's so ever.

Yeah, and the thing is that conspiracy theories are unfalsifiable by definition (Lack of evidence = part of the conspiracy / they destroyed all the evidence!!!). Due to this those few that can get rather credible through circumstancial evidence and logic (which in particular the 9/11 theories are, IMO) can not be strictly distinguished from the lunatic ones.

Well, you've heard it now, go spread the word!



Yeah, and the thing is that conspiracy theories are unfalsifiable by definition (Lack of evidence = part of the conspiracy / they destroyed all the evidence!!!). Due to this those few that can get rather credible through circumstancial evidence and logic (which in particular the 9/11 theories are, IMO) can not be strictly distinguished from the lunatic ones.

Haha I agree, I guess it's true that most people in the west are alienated