Tendencies and YPLS.

So a few of you might have seen me recommending SP-USA on the forums here. I once read that there existed three tendencies in the party: Debs, Grass Roots and Fist And Rose - I was wondering if they are still about and how much influence they each have (particularly the Debs tendency).
Moreover, is it a party of communists or is there a strong presence reformists?

Furthermore, I have noticed that you do not claim to be democratic centralist, how do you define your methods of organisation and how does it work?

Finally, what is the status of YPSL? Seems like their website has not been working for over a year now.

Thank you very much.

Debs is the only unofficial tendency left. Most of FaRT has left and Grass Roots doesn't exist anymore except as a bogey man in the eyes of some social democrats. The Debs, tendency, however, is comatose.

YPSL appears to be dead as well, but since the average age of the NC is now under 30, there doesn't seem to be much point in YPSL anyway.

Officially, we are a revolutionary party, and most of the active membership are revolutionaries. There is still a strong social democratic presence, however, and they recently captured the male co-chair of the Party. Despite that, a gret majority of the national leadership are revolutionaries.

We are not officially a democratic centralist party, and democratic centralism is officially banned (either dual membership in a DC group or internal DC factions), but structurally, if we aren't democratic centralist, then the word has little meaning, but unlike most DC groups, we're actually democratic ... though we lean more towards anarchism than democracy, as most people seem to think they have no obligation to follow the decisions of the majority.

Thanks for the prompt and concise response, I don't want to take up too much of your of your time, however I'd like to ask a few other things:
Don't care describing the outlook of the tendencies to me do ya?
Did FaRT leave to Democratic Socialists USA?
Finally, it seems like you have had some decent Presidential candidates in the past, (Dave McReynolds springs to mind). However, how did Brian Moore get nominated? Judging from youtube he seems very nice and all however he is obviously a reformist and was an embarrassment on television.

Debsian = revolutionary Marxist, with many Trotskyists

Grass Roots = revolutionary Marxist, tending towards left communism (I've heard it described as DeLeonist, by a critic, and as Luxemburgist, by most others).

Fist and Rose = social democratic, oriented towards the Socialist International

There are probably two new, undeclared factions coming into existence, in support of and in opposition to Billy Wharton, our new male Co-Chair. He has quite the authoritarian streak in him, which isn't really surprising for a reformist. All his protests against the arbitrary national leadership in the past have disappeared now that Chairman Billy is in the saddle, and he gets very prickly when you disagree with him. (You can tell where I stand). There is something of a cult of personality growing around him (though I don't get the attraction), and the NYC local is almost his personal fiefdom.

Some of the members of FaRT left to refound SDUSA, which had disintegrated a few years earlier. Some just left the party. Three were thrown out (one, ironically, by other FaRTs). Some joined DSA. One left and came back. BTW, one of the leaders of FaRT, Gabe Ross, set himself up as a dictator in SDUSA, which pretty much blows his critics of the SPUSA out of the water. He was recently removed from his position by the executive committee of SDUSA.

Brian Moore won for a few reasons. In the Party, Eric Chester, de facto leader of Grass Roots, became something of a bogey man. Eric's political analysis are often quite good, but, despite being vehemently anti-democratic centralist, tends towards bureaucratic solutions to democratic problems. He was widely seen as the likely Presidential candidate in 2008 (and in retrospect, would have been better than Brian). And anyone but Eric faction formed, and Brian seemed the best candidate to win.

Also, the Florida delegation, including me, hoped that by the Presidential candidate being another Floridian, we'd be able to tour him around the state to rebuild the organization (which had just come out of a nasty internal fight, partly over FaRT).

Lastly, Brian demonstrated an ability to raise money and get in the media. He'd already had two articles written about him and had raised several thousand dollars by the time of the convention.

Brian did do some very good work around ballot access, opening up avenues for 3rd Party candidates in many states across the country, successfully challenging many states regulations. That wasn't what we wanted, though. We wanted someone who would run around and help build the organization, though, given the historic campaign by Obama, it's likely that even had Brian focused on Party building, he'd have succeeded much.

But yeah, on tv, he comes across as very stiff.

I am curious about how old you must be to join the SP-USA, if you pay dues, and if it is very united, somewhat united, or falling apart at the seams. It seems, at first glance, that you are one of the only {in my opinion as an Idahoan on the edge of capitalist society} true socialist, respectable, and united parties that does any action. I knew a SPUSA person and he was very different from the revleft community, yet he felt duty bound to Socialism-and as such, it gives me the impression that there are internal tendencies towards one person, one idea or another at times, but that the idea of a Socialist, free nation will always be number one for this united party. [as you can see I am a supporter, but not a member]

There are probably two new, undeclared factions coming into existence, in support of and in opposition to Billy Wharton, our new male Co-Chair. He has quite the authoritarian streak in him, which isn't really surprising for a reformist. All his protests against the arbitrary national leadership in the past have disappeared now that Chairman Billy is in the saddle, and he gets very prickly when you disagree with him. (You can tell where I stand). There is something of a cult of personality growing around him (though I don't get the attraction), and the NYC local is almost his personal fiefdom.

I fear his reformism is well to the right of a certain, ahem, great uncle figure who more or less retired from German politics.

I am curious about how old you must be to join the SP-USA, if you pay dues, and if it is very united, somewhat united, or falling apart at the seams. It seems, at first glance, that you are one of the only {in my opinion as an Idahoan on the edge of capitalist society} true socialist, respectable, and united parties that does any action. I knew a SPUSA person and he was very different from the revleft community, yet he felt duty bound to Socialism-and as such, it gives me the impression that there are internal tendencies towards one person, one idea or another at times, but that the idea of a Socialist, free nation will always be number one for this united party. [as you can see I am a supporter, but not a member]

It depends by state, since state law can govern the age at which people may join political parties. As far as the Party is concerned, you have to at least 15 years of age to join. There is also the youth affiliate, the Young People's Socialist League, YPSL (yip-sul), but it's not terribly active atm.

Dues are required, but they are A, very low, and B, waived for those whom even $25/year is a hardship. I would argue that the dues are too low, as we can barely afford to carry out our Party functions.

We are somewhat united, neither marching in lock-step nor falling apart at the seams. The Party is a multi-tendency organization, and some of those tendencies don't get along very well, but we stay together for the sake of the children.

If an organisation exists without the right to form factions and the right to disagree publicly. It will only lead to splits :-)

I heard that any faction within the SP-USA that tries to practice Democratic Centralism is automatically banned. Is this true?

Unless it's the NY City local, yes.

Is the YPSL still active? I heard it was restarted.

What's the origin and nature of the Revolutionary Unity Group. I'm guessing it's a new tendency in the SP?

Revolutionary Unity Group

RU is essentially a fusion of the Debs Tendency and the Grass Roots Tendency, plus a lot of new comrades.

YPSL has not been restarted, though some old farts in the SDUSA are trying to claim it. Some comrades in my local are trying to create a new chapter of YPSL.

A very interesting development! Thanks for keeping me updated!
Good stuff.

I should point out there is a new political tendency, the so-called, Debs-Forum. It is comprised of social democrats, largely, and some people who object to the intensity of discourse. Given that the accusation leveled at some of their members is that they are acting in an undemocratic, and even anti-democratic fashion, one wonders how we could possibly be nice about it.

Victory to the Revolutionary Unity Group!

With the talk of tendencies, I believe a new one is going to form called Red And Black Action Coalition. More information will arise in the next few weeks.

Welcome to the club!

uhh what club? But thanks!

uhh what club? But thanks!

It's a phrase.

It's a phrase.

wow... I've been off lately lol.

I joined the Party maybe about 6 months ago. I like it but far to social democratic and reformist for my taste. We need a livelier revolutionary Marxist feeling. I also think that we need to work with other socialist parties more (if we do at all I'm not sure).

I wish we had one hundred more comrades like, you, LeftSolidarity. Right now, I'm so demoralized about the situation in this Party, I've decided I'm going to quit, unless I get talked out of it during our Revolutionary Unity meeting on Sunday.

I wish we had one hundred more comrades like, you, LeftSolidarity. Right now, I'm so demoralized about the situation in this Party, I've decided I'm going to quit, unless I get talked out of it during our Revolutionary Unity meeting on Sunday.

You need to hook up with more comrades like LeftSolidarity to make you feel better. (I guess)