What is the state of Councilism?

  1. Marxist-Leftist
    Marxist-Leftist
    [FONT=Verdana]What is the state of Council Communism? [/FONT]
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    [FONT=Verdana]I recently started shift to this ideology over State Socialism(Leninism,Trotskyism etc)[/FONT]
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    [FONT=Verdana]My problem is that unlike Leninism or Trotskyism [/FONT]
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    [FONT=Verdana]Council Communism is rather under represented(as far as i'm aware). [/FONT]
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    [FONT=Verdana]Is there a movement of which i am unaware of?[/FONT]
  2. Zanthorus
    Zanthorus
    There are anarchist and Left-Communist groups that openly take influence from the council communist tradition however there are no explicitly council communist organisations in the world today that I know of and I think even at the level of individual activists most are more influenced by CC than actually consider themselves CC'ers.
  3. StoneFrog
    StoneFrog
    It seems that Council Communists seem to either go Left-Communist or Anarchist, since there is no Group that represents us.
    But it seems of late that we have been starting to get more interest, maybe there is still hope.
  4. AK
    [FONT=Verdana]I recently started shift to this ideology over State Socialism(Leninism,Trotskyism etc)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
    There's a group for that: http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=459

    I would say that the tendency has gotten progressively weaker since the fall of the KAPD but I have noticed more and more councillists as of late.
  5. Zanthorus
    Zanthorus
    I would say that the tendency has gotten progressively weaker since the fall of the KAPD but I have noticed more and more councillists as of late.
    On revleft. However revleft is not even representative of the left as a whole let alone the entire working class.
  6. AK
    On revleft. However revleft is not even representative of the left as a whole let alone the entire working class.
    True. But hey, it's slight growth but growth nevertheless. I wonder how many council communists there are out there now, not on revleft, waiting to organise.
  7. automattick
    automattick
    Speaking of which, I read once that CC's don't really do anything in terms of aiding with strikes, they simply just intellectually support them. Isn't this really just a way of being comfortable and not getting one's hands dirty?
  8. AK
    Speaking of which, I read once that CC's don't really do anything in terms of aiding with strikes, they simply just intellectually support them. Isn't this really just a way of being comfortable and not getting one's hands dirty?
    I'm guessing councilists oppose trade unions for the same reasons leftcoms do. Trade unions serve only to maintain the capitalist system and make it a little bit fairer - thereby having two adverse effects; 1) keeping the system of exploitation and wage labour intact and 2) lessening the possibility of revolution by creating an atmosphere that suggests capitalism isn't all that bad.

    Yet, the class struggle goes on.
  9. automattick
    automattick
    But what about strikes (wildcat or union)? I get the impression that council communists are so far to the left w/i the libertarian strain of communism, that they'd sooner sit around the watch workers strike on TV then participate in it.

    I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could clarify their stance for me.
  10. HEAD ICE
    HEAD ICE
    It is of my knowledge that Anton Pannekoek explicitly endorsed the mass strike:

    Russia showed to the European and American workers, confined within reformist ideas and practice, first how an industrial working class by gigantic mass actions of wild strikes is able to undermine and destroy an obsolete state power; and second, how in such actions the strike commit*tees develop into workers’ councils, organs of fight and of self-management, acquiring political tasks and functions.
    Paul Mattick was clearly a supporter of strikes:

    One need only to discover the actual end behind the ideological end to smooth out the apparent inconsistency. To use a practical example: if one believes that trade unions are interested in strikes as a method of minimalising profits and increasing wages, as they contend, he will be surprised to discover that when trade unions were apparently most powerful and when the need to increase wages was the greatest, trade unions were more reluctant than ever to use the strike medium in the interest of their goal. The unions turned to means less appropriate to the end aspired to, such as arbitration and governmental regulations. The fact is that wage increase under all conditions is no longer the end of trade unions; they are no longer what they were at their start; their true end is now the maintenance of the organisational apparatus under all conditions; the new means are those tactics most appropriate to this goal.
  11. AK
    But what about strikes (wildcat or union)? I get the impression that council communists are so far to the left w/i the libertarian strain of communism, that they'd sooner sit around the watch workers strike on TV then participate in it.

    I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could clarify their stance for me.
    I'm all for strikes. Just not for trade unions - they exist only to maintain capitalism. Strikes are a mobilization of workers acting in the interests of labour, so why not love them? A wildcat general strike (like Mai 68) is one of the potential roads to revolution; so I'm all for them. Same with unions that seek not to maintain capitalism, but to propose an alternative. A revolutionary union (like the CNT-FAI) is one that is certainly beneficial to class struggle and could agitate for revolution.
  12. HEAD ICE
    HEAD ICE
    I was reading some Mattick yesterday (man what a good writer) and I came across this, pretty relevant:

    Such is the new situation facing workers. But from it springs an actual weakness. Since the old method of struggle by means of elections and limited trade union activity has become quite futile, a new method, it is true, has instinctively developed, but that method has not yet been conscientiously, and therefore not effectively, applied. Where their parties and unions are impotent, the masses already begin to express their militancy through wildcat strikes. In America, England, France, Belgium, Holland, Spain, Poland – wildcat strikes develop, and through them the masses present ample proof that their old organizations are no longer fit for struggle. The wildcat strikes are not, however, disorganized, as the name implies. They are denounced as such by union bureaucrats, because they are strikes formed outside the official organizations. The strikers themselves organize the strike, for it is an old truth that only as an organized mass can workers struggle and conquer. They form picket lines, provide for the repulsion of strike-breakers, organize strike relief, create relations with other factories. – In a word, they themselves assume the leadership of their own strike, and they organize it on a factory basis.
    It is in these very movements that the strikers find their unity of struggle. It is then that they take their destiny into their own hands and unite “the legislative and executive power” by eliminating unions and parties, as illustrated by several strikes in Belgium and Holland.
    But independent class action is still weak. That the strikers, instead of continuing their independent action toward widening their movement, call upon the unions to join them, is an indication that under existing conditions their movement cannot grow larger, and for that reason cannot yet become a political force capable of fighting concentrated capital. But it is a beginning.
    Occasionally though, the independent struggle takes a big leap forward, as with the Asturian miners’ strikes in 1934, the Belgium miners in 1935, the strikes in France, Belgium and America in 1936, and the Catalonian revolution in 1936. These outbreaks are evidence that a new social force is surging among the workers, is finding workers’ leadership, is subjecting social institutions to the masses, and is already on the march.
    Strikes are no longer mere interruptions in profit-making or simple economic disturbances. The independent strike derives its significance from the action of workers as an organized class. With a system of factory committees and workers’ councils extending over wide areas the proletariat creates the organs which regulate production, distribution, and all the other functions of social life. In other words, the civil administrative apparatus is deprived of all power, and the proletarian dictatorship establishes itself. Thus, class organization in the very struggle for power is at the same time organization, control, and management of the productive forces of the entire society. It is the basis of the association of free and equal producers, and consumers. This, then, is the danger that the independent class movement presents to the capitalist society. Wildcat strikes, though apparently of little importance whether on a small or large scale, are embryonic communism. A small wildcat strike, directed as it is by workers and in the interest of workers, illustrates on a small scale the character of the future proletarian power.
  13. Zanthorus
    Zanthorus
    A revolutionary union (like the CNT-FAI) is one that is certainly beneficial to class struggle and could agitate for revolution.
    Although "revolutionary" unions like the IWW are certainly better than your average beuracrat filled mainstream trade union, for the most part they're still operating on an economistic basis. A revolution however is a socio-political act. For that you need a party.
  14. StoneFrog
    StoneFrog
    For that you need a party.
    A Party for what, to lead the revolution? I don't see a need for a party at all, maybe organizations to help bring around a class conciseness; but no political party.
  15. Zanthorus
    Zanthorus
    Parties can serve as national and international bases for co-ordinating class struggle.
  16. automattick
    automattick
    Thanks comrades for the clarifications! And I agree, Mattick is a great writer; so lucid and descriptive.