So... is this actually happening?

  1. Kassad
    Kassad
    I'm having trouble actually finding details about this new Fifth International and frankly, all an internet search brings up is the already-existent League for the Fifth International. Has Hugo Chavez actually announced any kind of meeting between organizations or anything that would actually initiate this international?

    My fear is that in places like the US and UK, more than one party will want to be a part of the new international, leading to increased sectarianism and the possibility of having 2-3 parties in different countries joining, which would be counterproductive.

    Any details?
  2. Benjamin Hill
    I'm having trouble actually finding details about this new Fifth International and frankly, all an internet search brings up is the already-existent League for the Fifth International. Has Hugo Chavez actually announced any kind of meeting between organizations or anything that would actually initiate this international?
    A good question, I would like to see some more sources too. This meeting is supposed to happen next month.

    My fear is that in places like the US and UK, more than one party will want to be a part of the new international, leading to increased sectarianism and the possibility of having 2-3 parties in different countries joining, which would be counterproductive.
    I don't see the trouble here like you do. In fact, I could see a new drive towards more unity happen in this new international, if it actually gets some mass resonance. Why? The reason is simple: If the self-proclaimed communists don't want to be left behind while a mass platform is being formed, the different splinters will have to work together and accept they'll actually have to be in a minority in the first stages. Is that bad? Not at all. This is the way mass organisations are built. It is our task to fight for radical democracy, pluriformity and socialist politics.
  3. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    Has Hugo Chavez actually announced any kind of meeting between organizations or anything that would actually initiate this international?
    http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4946
    http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4965

    My fear is that in places like the US and UK, more than one party will want to be a part of the new international, leading to increased sectarianism and the possibility of having 2-3 parties in different countries joining, which would be counterproductive.
    That is a reflection of the weakness of the left at this time. Ideally we would have something like the Comintern's limits on one communist party, but the Second International had countries with two or more Social-Democratic parties.

    Case in point: the RSDLP and the sectarian SDKPiL (Poland and Lithuania).

    In the US, I like the idea of the pareconists having their own "party" affiliated to the new International. I also like the idea of the PSL and SP-USA affiliating (and maybe a couple more others). I do not like smaller sects to join, from the Avakian and Barnes cults to the Sparts to even the age-old and dwindling Socialist Labor Party (dating back to the American section of Marx's own International Workingmen's Association).

    In Greece, I like the idea of SYRIZA affiliating (with maybe three or four delegates from leading SYRIZA components), but I don't like the idea of its individual components joining.

    In Japan, there's really no option outside the Japanese Communist Party, no matter how reformist it is these days. The various "Japan Revolutionary Communist Leagues" of Trotskyist stripes don't count.

    In Russia, the classical "Anti-Revisionist" organization (no Mao or Hoxha, but only "Stalin brought us up on loyalty to the people - he inspired us to labour and to heroism") Russian Communist Workers' Party – Revolutionary Party of Communists (RCWP-RPC) is the leading option, but I'm not sure if other options among smaller organizations are available.

    In France, the Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste should set an example for remaining Trotskyist parties in the reunified "Fourth International" / "United Secretariat." I don't know if the reformist Parti de gauche should join.

    In Venezuela, it's PSUV all the way! ["Patriotic Alliance" my ass ]

    Canada? Tough question.
  4. Benjamin Hill
    In Greece, I like the idea of SYRIZA affiliating (with maybe three or four delegates from leading SYRIZA components), but I don't like the idea of its individual components joining.
    To elaborate on this, for people not in the know, I quote a relevant part from karlmarx.net:

    What is Synaspsismos and what is SYRIZA?

    Synaspismos is a “Coalition (the word means coalition) of the Left, the (social) Movements and Ecology”. Its full name. It is a split from a short lived coalition with KKE (late 80s) of Euro-communists and other petit bourgeois elements of the left. It is made up of a number, 3-4, of factions. It operates as a unifi
    ed party with publicly recognised differences between the factions. Very little influence amongst the working class.

    SYRIZA, its full name is “Coalition of the Radical Left”. It was formed about 2 or 3 general elections ago. It is again a coalition of about 10 groups/parties who work independently but together on a minimum program which is approved unanimously. They participate in elections and are expected to get, in the general elections of the 4th of October, just over 3%. The biggest by far party in SYRIZA is Synaspismos. The others are small sects, like XEKINIMA (see above), KOKINO (4th International), a maoist group, a nationalist left split from PASOK etc. 3% of the vote is the threshold for electing MPs and receiving state funding. If they do not get 3% and loose the state funding, which is shared amongst the participating groups/parties, SYRIZA will dissolve and Synaspismos will split with at least one faction joining PASOK.
    Even with a good result, between 3+5%, Syriza will be under a lot of pressure from some of the factions of Synaspismos, to dissolve. Syriza, as an electoral coalition, has a secure future only if it gets over 5%.
  5. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    I think Wikipedia is more accurate about the status of SYRIZA:

    With the aforementioned additions, the Coalition currently comprises the following parties (in alphabetical order):

    Active Citizens (Ενεργοί Πολίτες), Democratic Socialism, Patriotism
    Communist Organization of Greece (KOE), Maoism, Communism
    Democratic Social Movement (DIKKI), Social democracy, Socialism
    Ecosocialists of Greece, Eco-socialism, Left Ecology
    Internationalist Workers' Left (DEA), Revolutionary socialism, Communism, Trotskyism
    Red (Κόκκινο), Communism, Trotskyism
    Movement for the United in Action Left (KEDA), Communism
    Renewing Communist Ecological Left (AKOA), Democratic socialism, Eurocommunism, Green
    Radical Left Group Roza
    Synaspismos (SYN), Democratic socialism, Eurocommunism, Renewalism, Green, Eco-socialism, Social progressivism, Alter-globalization
    Xekinima - Socialist Internationalist Organisation(CWI), Marxism, Trotskyism
    and several independent leftist activists
  6. DecDoom
    Have any American organizations expressed interest in the Fifth International?
  7. which doctor
    The marxist left is so fractured and weak these days, that I don't think any single national party, really represents the marxist left in their country. I think several parties from each country should be invited and it would be great if they were all given a venue to have public debates over important, like they did in previous internationals.

    That said, I remain very apprehensive to the idea of a 'fifth internationale'
  8. Barry Lyndon
    The marxist left is so fractured and weak these days, that I don't think any single national party, really represents the marxist left in their country. I think several parties from each country should be invited and it would be great if they were all given a venue to have public debates over important, like they did in previous internationals.

    That said, I remain very apprehensive to the idea of a 'fifth internationale'
    Yes, I would be very apprehensive if I were you too- a real fifth international would mean you would have to stop playing with yourself and actually do something useful.