Lisbon Treaty

  1. Dóchas
    Dóchas
    As seen as Ireland has to vote on this in 3 weeks or so i thought it would be appropriate to talk about it. one of the things i want to know is why is the Lisbon treaty a bad thing? iv heard all the left wing organisations campaigning for a no vote but im not really sure why its a bad thing? does anyone know of the general Leftist perspective of the Lisbon treaty and what the effect of either a Yes/No vote on Ireland?
  2. Dr Mindbender
    being a nordie i cant participate in this but id be interested if 26 co'ers could fill me in to give some perspective.

    Whats with the triple posting by the way? I deleted the 2 duplicates.
  3. Dóchas
    Dóchas
    Whats with the triple posting by the way? I deleted the 2 duplicates.
    oh really? shit sorry about that
  4. count66
    count66
    To me the Lisbon Treaty is a bad thing for 2 principle reasons which have nothing to do with the context of the treaty itself.

    Firstly, the majoirty of citizens of the European Union are not in favour of this treaty and it is being foisted on them as they do not (unlike the Repulic) have the right of referendum and secondly, the Irish people have already voted no.

    Therefore, on purely the principles of democracy and majority rule, this treaty has to be kicked into touch!
  5. Dóchas
    Dóchas
    so only three days to go until the lisbon treaty is either passes or rejected. what way do you think its going to swing. i have a bad feeling that its going to be passed second time around but you never know
  6. count66
    count66
    so only three days to go until the lisbon treaty is either passes or rejected. what way do you think its going to swing. i have a bad feeling that its going to be passed second time around but you never know

    I agree - it looks like its going to be passed.

    The treaty itself dees not appear to me to be the monster its made out to be in some sections of the no quarter in my opinion and I think the no campagain have done themselves no favours through the spreading of false information which has been uncovered and proved incorrect by the yes side. Personally, I'm just against all undemocratic decisions which this treaty passing will be, particulary given its unpopularity throughout Europe as a whole.

    Plus the treaty is just another means of furthering the capitalist agenda.
  7. Dóchas
    Dóchas
    and the fact this is the second time we have to "vote" to decide if it is passed/rejected should be an argument in itself for it to be rejected
  8. BOZG
    BOZG
    I agree - it looks like its going to be passed.

    The treaty itself dees not appear to me to be the monster its made out to be in some sections of the no quarter in my opinion and I think the no campagain have done themselves no favours through the spreading of false information which has been uncovered and proved incorrect by the yes side. Personally, I'm just against all undemocratic decisions which this treaty passing will be, particulary given its unpopularity throughout Europe as a whole.

    Plus the treaty is just another means of furthering the capitalist agenda.
    This is the problem. There isn't a No side, there's 2 or 3 No sides all responding to their own issues and agendas. In some cases, like Coir, there's an obvious attempt to involve themselves in thinks like workers' rights despite the fact they know absolutely nothing about it.
  9. BOZG
    BOZG
    and the fact this is the second time we have to "vote" to decide if it is passed/rejected should be an argument in itself for it to be rejected
    You have to be careful about how you phrase that argument. Voting for something a second time isn't automatically undemocratic. For example, we'd support another a referendum on abortion despite that it has been rejected in the past. Conditions, opinions and outlooks have changed since then. The undemocratic nature of Lisbon 2 isn't just holding another referendum in itself, it's to the scaremongering nature of the Yes campaign that has manipulated public opinion and that this isn't the first time that they've attempted to push through a referendum twice.
  10. Dóchas
    Dóchas
    You have to be careful about how you phrase that argument. Voting for something a second time isn't automatically undemocratic. For example, we'd support another a referendum on abortion despite that it has been rejected in the past. Conditions, opinions and outlooks have changed since then. The undemocratic nature of Lisbon 2 isn't just holding another referendum in itself, it's to the scaremongering nature of the Yes campaign that has manipulated public opinion and that this isn't the first time that they've attempted to push through a referendum twice.
    ye but in this case i think its safe to say that voting again is outrageous as we as a country made up our mind on something the government asked us to vote on. the fact that you seem to be only able to vote yes or Yes is another example of how spineless our government is and how much power the EU actually has