What are the Luxemburgist tendencies?

I'm aware that there is the International Luxemburgist Network, and that some from the Communist Left identify with Luxemburg.

Are there other tendencies represented here? Other individuals who ascribe to Rosa's views but don't regard themselves as belonging to either of those tendencies?

I ask because Rosa's work makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm not entirely convinced that either of the tendencies represent my understanding of it.

I am influenced by Luxemburg and I consider myself an anarchist.

I just don't support the left-communist interpretation of Rosa Luxemburg and her work.

hello Rakunin
which points of the 'left communist interpretation' of Luxemburg do you disagree with?

• I don't think that Rosa luxemburg would insist on (re)producing a maximum programme for today's situation
• From the point of view of organization I see her more in the same tradition as that of Lenin (for example by aknowledging the concepts of spontaneity and self-organization in both the history of early Bolshevism (- 1918) and the history of Rosa Luxemburg).

not sure if I follow you in the two cases - could you elaborate? do you mean that the maximum programme is not generally valid in this period of history, or as a response to immediate struggles?
So what is your view of organisation?

From the point of view of organization I see her more in the same tradition as that of Lenin (for example by aknowledging the concepts of spontaneity and self-organization in both the history of early Bolshevism (- 1918) and the history of Rosa Luxemburg).

but don't you think Lenin's conception of a vanguard party kind of stands in opposition of Luxemburg's argument for spontaneity?

i'm influenced by rosa to. i consider her to be on the side of the working class and also a libertarian socialist as the popular definition too, but i am an anarchist. i'd probably be a luxemburgist if she had not been murdered and had been able to develop her views further.

but don't you think Lenin's conception of a vanguard party kind of stands in opposition of Luxemburg's argument for spontaneity?

Not quite because in the end both aknowledged that while a party needs correct ideas these ideas can only be formed in relation to class struggle. The vanguard is not just a subjective concept ("we are right the rest is wrong or less developed").

Because Luxemburg died in 1919 it is hard to envisage whether she would have agree with the Comintern regarding the question what kind of programme is needed. But i do believe that Rosa luxemburg was someone who would adapt to the concrete situation. Because I don't know what kind of programme we need for this day I can't say what Rosa Luxemburg would have thought if she would be alive (or: what I think Rosa would have done).

Regarding organizational questions: there were some marked differences between Lenin and Luxemburg. And I think that the degeneration of the CP (b) worsened a modern observer's perception of these differences ("Lenin led to Stalin ... yadeyadeyade"). But there were similarities. And I'm someone who would rather stress the similarities than differences.

Not quite because in the end both aknowledged that while a party needs correct ideas these ideas can only be formed in relation to class struggle. The vanguard is not just a subjective concept ("we are right the rest is wrong or less developed").

Lenin certainly did acknowledge the importance of spontaneity in working class organization, I just see his formulation of the role of the vanguard party and its use during the first years of the soviet union as fundamentally opposed to spontaneous organization.

Regarding organizational questions: there were some marked differences between Lenin and Luxemburg. And I think that the degeneration of the CP (b) worsened a modern observer's perception of these differences ("Lenin led to Stalin ... yadeyadeyade"). But there were similarities. And I'm someone who would rather stress the similarities than differences.

fair enough.

i'm influenced by rosa to. i consider her to be on the side of the working class and also a libertarian socialist as the popular definition too, but i am an anarchist. i'd probably be a luxemburgist if she had not been murdered and had been able to develop her views further.

Chomsky's constant lumping of Luxemburg into the libertarian camp (alongside non-marxist anarchists) is fairly irritating. Rosa repeatedly showed support for the Russian Revolution and the Bolshevik party, in addition to calling for the nationalization and centralization of industry as a revolutionary tactic. She was an ardent supporter of democracy certainly, but libertarian she was not.

Let it be known that, if I could give thanks on here, I'd be thanking Sedrox's post.

Lenin certainly did acknowledge the importance of spontaneity in working class organization, I just see his formulation of the role of the vanguard party and its use during the first years of the soviet union as fundamentally opposed to spontaneous organization.

You're right. The first 4 congresses created organizational rules which were quite the opposite of the traditions of the old Bolsheviks. While the old Bolshevik party had much more potential to become both an instrument of, and battle ground for, the working class the CP(b) effectively cleared the way for a bureaucratic leadership over the working class. Any spontanteity was out of the question. Of course the whole process was a gradual one, but the first 4 congresses were already affected by that process of bureaucratization.