Other 40k players?

Hey, just lost a mini-tournament 4-1-1. With this space marine army:

Captain [Relic blade, Artificer Armour and Digital Weapons] with command squad [ Company Standard, Comany Standard, 2x Power Weapons and a Plasma pistol]
Chaplain [Unchanged]

1 Tactical squad [Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Sergeant w/ Power weapon] Mounted in a Rhino.

1 Tactical Squad [Flamer & Missile Launcher]

8 Scouts [6 with Combat weapons, 1 shotgun and one with sniper rifle]

10 Devastators [ 2 Missile launchers, plasma cannon and lascannon]

Predator [Twinlinked Lascannon and 2 Heavy Bolter sponons]

Predator [Autocannon and 2 Heavy Bolter sponsons]

Bike Squad [3].

I was playing an aspect Eldar army [close combat] (I lost) and an Imperial Guard army (I drew) = made a few tactical erros, but were there any essential mistakes in trrop choices?

I fully recognise that I am now crossing the line into nerdiness where even Trekkies roll thier eyes in disgust... but yes, I'm a 40k player *hangs her head in shame*

I had about 2.5k of Imperial Guard, which I'm currently in the process of selling to a friend. I do a bit of painting too to get some cash.

Looking at your army, I've got to ask where the assault marines were? Against Guard you really wanted to accept that you would never outshoot them when it came to heavy weapons and I can already imagine that very early on those devestators were probably battle cannon'd into oblivion. Your best tactic vs Guard is to hop from cover to cover, get in close and just make a charge with bolters + flamers with your 5 man combat squads. So, yeah, would have replaced the devestators with an assault marine squad.

I would have then split my tactical squads into combat squads, ditched the missile launcher and put two cardboard coffins to transport them, or maybe even Razorbacks if you could afford it and then have the other two combat squads running behind the Rhinos using them as cover as they advance. I cant remember if SM's have krak grenades as standard, if they dont, then take them as your predators cant be relied on to take down the Russes that will make a mess of your marines.

As for Eldar I dont have a clue sorry. I've been playing 40k for about 15 years now and I have NEVER won a game vs Eldar. I just cant wrap my head around how they work :P

I lost too! Damn those perfidious eldar and their fucking avatar of Khaine!

Fuck the Avatar of Khaine. It was his fucking Howling Banshees.

When the day comes they shall be first against the wall.

I used to collect hordes of imperial guard. Nowadays my activities are thwarted by lack of funding. I would like to start again, this time too with guard, but perhaps with a more mechanized force this time. Time will reveal whether I am to make a glorious comeback as a commander comissar Irresistibus Frontius!

Yes, when I was still playing and went to the local tournaments, I always dressed up as a commissar. My friends dressed up in more combat oriented costumes, and we would form a real-life command squad and roleplay accordingly. "Lieutenant Ferrial, take your company on the enemys left flank immediately, and chrush those vile xeno tanks in the name of the emperor!",
"But ofcourse commander commissar, we shall inspire you all by sacrificing our lives to the immortal God-emperor..."
...Miniatyres being moved...

I outnerd you all, and I even dare to be proud of it.

Looking at your army, I've got to ask where the assault marines were?

I don't own any, but I agree they would have been ideal for taking down the IG. The Eldar are a different story though, I'm really not sure they'd have fared too well in that one.

Against Guard you really wanted to accept that you would never outshoot them when it came to heavy weapons and I can already imagine that very early on those devestators were probably battle cannon'd into oblivion.

As it happens the devastators did ok, if I recall correctly. The guard ordnance did manage to (obviously) cack all over my vehicles.

Your best tactic vs Guard is to hop from cover to cover, get in close and just make a charge with bolters + flamers with your 5 man combat squads. So, yeah, would have replaced the devestators with an assault marine squad.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm not really sure about the combat squads thing, the utility of it has never been fully explained to me.

I would have then split my tactical squads into combat squads, ditched the missile launcher and put two cardboard coffins to transport them, or maybe even Razorbacks if you could afford it and then have the other two combat squads running behind the Rhinos using them as cover as they advance. I cant remember if SM's have krak grenades as standard, if they dont, then take them as your predators cant be relied on to take down the Russes that will make a mess of your marines.

Doesn't sound like a bad plan. If I get a chance to play a specifically tailored force against them I'll keep some of this in mind.

As for Eldar I dont have a clue sorry. I've been playing 40k for about 15 years now and I have NEVER won a game vs Eldar. I just cant wrap my head around how they work :P

How they worked in my game (the one I was utterly decimated in) was basically rushing forward, losing some squads here and there before their heavy hitters turned up and tore me a new one (the Avatar that Dyslexia mentioned, the Banshees and the [close combat] unkillable wraithlord). Tailoring against that specific I would forego fast attack entirely, there's about two turns of shooting before the shit really hits the fan and that should be as effective as possible. Dreadnoughts would also be handy.

Having played against Marines almost half of my games with the guard, I can tell you that meelee terminators are devastating. A single squad can dispatch half an army, and some crazy people deploy two. Especially if you have sweeping advance in play they are certain to make some ugly work of those guardsmen.

Argh, I feel like a traitor now that I gave tips to fight against the guard. I hope the Inquisition does not hear of this.

Assault Terminators are OTT for Guardsmen. Tactical marines, or assault marines would do the job just as well and cost a fraction of the points. They're also a lot more flexable and able to reasonably hunt tanks. Besides, the numbers mean that taking out one squad of guard wont do too much harm at all, so you're better going for quantity over quality.

The Emperor will not forget this NecroCommie. May your name be struck forever from the rolls of honour, your soul excommunicated from the embrace of He on earth and your life be snuffed out by those servants of the Commissariat who shall ever remain righteous in the light of the God-Emperor.

In short stop telling my good friend Jazzy how to defeat my army.

I don't own any, but I agree they would have been ideal for taking down the IG. The Eldar are a different story though, I'm really not sure they'd have fared too well in that one.

If you're intrested, I think Hasslefree minatures do a very economic set of jump packs if you wanted to convert a tactical squad to an assault squad. You may have to weight the base a bit if they're plastic minatures though as the jump packs are metal.

As it happens the devastators did ok, if I recall correctly. The guard ordnance did manage to (obviously) cack all over my vehicles.

Intresting. I usualy reserve my battle cannons/earth-shakers specifically for space marine infantry and then use my anti-tank squads (I have 6 lascannon teams and 3 missile launcher teams so I can make 3 AT squads, although I've also got 3 autocannon teams and 3 heavy bolter teams too which can sometimes bring down vehicles) and my lascannon sentinels for tank hunting. I'd guess by that you were doing a good job of hiding your infantry as they advanced, which is a good tactic as it meant he only had the tanks to shoot at, which I'm supposing were in the open so that you could try bringing down the Russes with that twin linked lascannon. By the sounds of things, I would have said you alsmost had them! I said it before and I'll say it again though, assault marines would have won you that game. They could have hopped from one of those places that you had a tactical squad lurking at, planted 10 meltabombs on the side of that Russ and then your tactical squads could have made a good push forwards with the predators' heavy bolters supporting them.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm not really sure about the combat squads thing, the utility of it has never been fully explained to me.

Well, the basics of it is is that it'd allow you to tie up two infantry squads in close combat rather than just one, with a single tactical squad. By using a 10 man squad, split into two, it allows one of the combat teams to have a special weapon too, which I'm sure you'll agree would come in very handy up close against guard.

Doesn't sound like a bad plan. If I get a chance to play a specifically tailored force against them I'll keep some of this in mind.

Coolies. Just remember that the worst nightmare of Guard armies is actualy the humble tactical squad.

How they worked in my game (the one I was utterly decimated in) was basically rushing forward, losing some squads here and there before their heavy hitters turned up and tore me a new one (the Avatar that Dyslexia mentioned, the Banshees and the [close combat] unkillable wraithlord). Tailoring against that specific I would forego fast attack entirely, there's about two turns of shooting before the shit really hits the fan and that should be as effective as possible. Dreadnoughts would also be handy.

Your guess is as good as mine, as I said, I've NEVER won a game against Eldar as they run rings around me and make sure that they only ever attack on thier terms, which all the battlecannons and lascannons in the imperium cannot help you with and unfortuantly, that's all guard have.

edit: I also checked. Space Marines have frag and krak grenades as standard. That means even a humble tactical squad can bring down a Russ, although not a demolisher, or one or two of the new varients, as they have 13 points of armour on the back. It's an automatic hit and there's nearly half a dozen of them, so chances are that at least one will cause a glancing hit, which would at the very least prevent the vehicle from firing that turn. You can even give your sergeant meltabombs for only 5pts, which would further up your threat to tanks. Just remember that it's a swine to hit walkers and skimmers in close combat.

Oh please not obey Ranma and deploy assault marines. They are so uncool. At least use drop pods or numbers. Personally coolness is an imporant factor when building an army, so I dislike assault marines. I never deployed any sentinels for this reason.

I need to start this awesome hobby again.

Oh please not obey Ranma and deploy assault marines. They are so uncool.

What the hell are you talking about? They pretty much embody everything cool about space marines. They come with chainswords as standard. Fucking chainswords dude.

At least use drop pods or numbers. Personally coolness is an imporant factor when building an army, so I dislike assault marines. I never deployed any sentinels for this reason.

So you think sentinels and assault marines are uncool but you recommend... drop pods? Fucking drop pods? They look so shit. I can't imagine ever using them, no matter how useful they are in game terms because I would have to spend money buying the hideous fucking things. Yeash.

I used to collect now the shame of my peers stops me.

Sentinels look awesome! They're like little mini AT-ST's.

Sentinels look awesome! They're like little mini AT-ST's.

Thats exactly why. They are so Star wars, not warhammer 40k.

Warhammer 40k should be massive city-sized tanks hurling ridiculously destructive blasts on truck sized super-infantry. Either that or absolutely mind bogglingly large numbers of cannon fodder that think they are special (IG and TAU).

Wanna be spec-ops sword wielding jetpack dudes just don't fit in. Drop pods on the other hand are so war-like, yeah!

Thats exactly why. They are so Star wars, not warhammer 40k.

Bollocks they are, light walkers are pretty prevelant in sci-fi, it's not so unreasonable to see them in the single most popular sci-fi wargame. Plus they look cool. They would look better with twin linked weapons, but that would be pushing points up or something.

Warhammer 40k should be massive city-sized tanks hurling ridiculously destructive blasts on truck sized super-infantry.

So it's all about baneblades shooting at meganobz or perhaps terminators? Given that the "city-sized tanks" only make an appearence in apocalypse (and even then they're considerably smaller than cities) it sounds like needlessly limiting the scope of 40k. Epic might be your lad if you want that kind of thing, if they even still do models.

Either that or absolutely mind bogglingly large numbers of cannon fodder that think they are special (IG and TAU).

Tau are pretty much all about the battlesuits, it even states this explicitly in the codex. If you try to build an infantry heavy army you'll soon find out what makes WS 2 absolutely rubbish, even if you do manage to decimate anyone stupid enough to not be in cover or power armour.

Wanna be spec-ops sword wielding jetpack dudes just don't fit in. Drop pods on the other hand are so war-like, yeah!

Wannabe spec-ops? You mean like scouts and terminators (given that their purpose is to teleport next to the hardest thing the opponent has and fuck it up). Sword weilding? You mean like every single cool model in human armies. Jetpack dudes? Stormboyz?

Have you ever actually played warhammer? Have you actually seen what it looks like, I mean? Understood the concept? No offense but if you never try to use any of the troops in an army that can infiltrate or deep strike (spec-ops "wannabes") and never diversify your troop choices you're just going to get shat on.

Also, when I think drop pods I don't think "War, Fuck Yeah" I think "How do people conscience buying models that look so fucking gash?"

Swords and Pauldrons. That is pretty much the entire point of Warhammer 40k.

Look at a model with eyes that work for more more than ten minutes and you'll notice this.

What exactly is so war-like about dropping expensive immovable blocks of useless crap with a few blokes in onto the battlefield during the battle rather than deploying larger numbers of troops onto the field before the battle starts?

So with God-Emperor alone knows how many Titans, Wraithlords, Warwalkers, Dreadnoughts, Stompas, Deff Dreads, Killa Kanz, Tau Battlesuits, Soulgrinders, Penitent engines, Thrones of Judgement and Defilers strolling about the Imperial guard shoudn't have a walker like all the other technology using races in the game because Star Wars, Dune and Aliens used up the manned walker designs first? Sorry no sale.

Also if you wanna knock spec-ops what about Stormtroopers? They even have specific "special operations" rules.

I was always collect Catatchan imperial guardsmen. I had a pretty nice army although outside of jungles/forests they were easy prey for my bro's Space Marines.

S'all about satchel charges.

Bollocks they are...

Relax!
I was intentionally dramatizing to create a fun post to write.
It's dull just to say "I dislike the aesthetics of some models."

I played a game last night against Choas. I really must remember that Obliterators can use twin linked heavy flamers and remember that means bieng aware of where the templates will go. That's like the 3rd time now that I've made the mistake of trying to surround them with guardsmen and rapidfiring lasguns into them. They barbequed a whole platoon of infantry , including the platoon command squad in one turn because I was so stupid how I was moving them >.>

Oh and Sly Marbo pulled off the most epic manuervre ever :P

Comes out of hiding, throws a democharge at some Havocs then charges at warhound Titan, as he was stuck for other targets. Rolled a 6 to hit with a meltabomb and rips off the turbolaser destroyer arm :P He then got squished, but it was so worth it just for the image in my head of him climbing up the leg of that titan, fighting his way through the crew, planting his meltabomb and then surfing the wreck to the ground and lighting a cigar in victory... as the foot decends on him. lol

I have a Cadian army, so he's not technically Sly Marbo. I gave him a cowboy hat and a cigar and called him Sly Marlboro instead.

^^ Sounds like a good game, shame about the fuckup with the infantry platoons, the Sly Mar[l]bo[ro] move is the kind of shit that makes the game though.

Got an apocalypse game tomorrow, Orks vs Guard (and some marines) - I'll be using a borrowed Ork force. Hopefully I'll have a few funny moments and, of course, a great victory to tell about. Then again Dyslexia! is on the other side though, so one of us will be boasting

Well no boasting, our 24,000 (roughly) apocalypse game ended when we all got virus bombed due to time constraints after having only four turns in eleven hours.

Very much a draw. Nobody managed any objectives at all, but I did kill eight Deffcopters in two turns.

My best friend's boyfriend was saying that he was considering... *tries to keep a straight face*... he was considering... a Dark Eldar army!!! *loses it and starts rolling around on the floor laughing*

I just love the fact that there is one weapon that is best for defeating ANY Dark Eldar unit; The heavy bolter. It's cheap, it's got a good rate of fire so it can hit those skimmers, it'll rip through any infantry that are not in power armour or better and it'll even bring down the "toughest" of Dark Eldar vehicles. Try to outmanuvre all you like, but eventualy you're going to bump into heavy bolters and grenade launchers and you'll lose... badly.

That bieng said though, the Dark Eldar's weapons are also very good at killing guardsmen, although, to be honest, what's not good at killing guardsmen? Maybe not grot blasters... maybe.

Those damn inventive DE names as well...:

For blasting things you have the blaster.

For shredding things you have the shredder.

For firing your splinters you have splinter pistols, splinter rifles and splinter cannons.

For lancing things with blasts of dark matter you have your dark lance.

For raiding you have your raider.

For marauding you have the marauder.

Wow those damn GW writers really got inventive that day didn't they?