Should we actively try to dismantle unions?

  1. BornDeist
    BornDeist
    I understand the harmfulness of unions to a revolution, so should we actively fight against unions so working standards get so bad for the majority of the proletariat and a revolution occurs?
  2. red flag over teeside
    red flag over teeside
    I don't think that we which I suppose you mean the communist left should set ourselves the task of dismantling the unions. The development of the economic crisis will show workers that the unions can't be trusted to protect jobs and conditions and that in fact they are hand in glove with employers, government to impose austerity. There are signs that workers trust unions even less today than they have in the past. The task I think is to provide a positive perspective of a communist society that will replace decaying capitalism. As part of that replacement independent organisations of the working class will be required and Marxists need to prepare the ground for these organisations which only the working class in struggle will build maintain and support.
  3. Blake's Baby
    Blake's Baby
    I completely agree with Red Flag that the working class can see the failure of unions without much help from us; but we shouldn't be afraid of pointing out the betrayals (both recent and historic) and pointing out that these aren't just the result of bad or corrupt leaders.

    But I find very disturbing the idea in your post, BornDeist, that we should be encouraging things to get worse in order for the working class to revolt.
  4. BornDeist
    BornDeist
    I would like it to make clear that I never think we should do anything to worsen the working class even though it's for the "greater good." I can't think of a single time where the end's would justify the means. I never want to be associated with any person of group of people that believe in that. I understand why Left Communist's are against Labor Unions I was just wondering if there should be some sort of active stance against them like trying to dismantle them. Before I asked the question my own thought was no, in no way should we do anything that might harm the working class. I was just looking for others opinions and regardless I doubt my opinions would have changed.
  5. red flag over teeside
    red flag over teeside
    The problem for the working class is that unions are not protecting workers conditions in the least. Look at the wage cuts in the UK, the underground rail strike called off by the RMT, failures in France, Spain, Greece, USA, South Africa. There's not one country where unions are defending workers jobs and it's in these situations that workers are and will turn away from unions.

    I agree with Blake's Baby that this is not due to the quality of the leaders for after all the left are just as bad as the right leaders. The reality is that a union is there to negotiate a price for labour power and as such accepts the wage relation as not only permanent but also as somehow natural.

    One final point the attempt at forming revolutionary unions in the past has also failed for the same reasons that traditional unions fail. What mat start as a fighting militant organisation quickly transforms itself through the struggle against the price of wage labour to a permanent fixture within the capitalist relationship.
  6. Alf
    Alf
    Agree with Blake and red flag. The trade uniion machinery is now part of the state machinery; it can therefore only be dismantled along with the rest of the state, in a revolution. The task of communists in the class struggle is to 'patiently explain' why the unions are no longer the organisations of the working class, that the class as a whole has to create its own unifying organs, on the basis of general assemblies and revocable delegates.