Criticizing Religion

  1. thriller
    thriller
    "3. The belief that it is good to be outspoken and criticise ideas which do not make rational sense (rather than keeping one's opinions to oneself) and that such behaviour is not intolerant. In order to be intolerant one must use force or threaten to use force in order to make someone claim adherence to a position. Making rational arguments is not intolerance."

    I really like this point. But I find it so hard to actually do this without people going "But you don't understand! You don't have faith! If you don't understand you shouldn't criticize!" And I get so fucking pissed that I just ignore them and walk away/change the subject. Maybe we can generate some ideas to deal with people who accuse us of being intolerant. Not that I care what people think of me, but I consider it more important to open peoples mind to the idea I'm arguing rather than wanting the person to like me. So, what are some comebacks/rebuttals we can use?
  2. RedAtheist
    RedAtheist
    But I find it so hard to actually do this without people going "But you don't understand! You don't have faith! If you don't understand you shouldn't criticize!" And I get so fucking pissed that I just ignore them and walk away/change the subject.
    I would respond by saying, 'yes, I don't have faith and that's a good thing.' And then ask them why they think it is a virtue to have faith in things.

    As for not criticising things we 'don't understand', there are atheists who grew up as religious people and therefore know very well what they are talking about. I would also ask them (assuming they were not socialists/communists) whether they had a detailed understanding of the writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. and whether they thought it was wrong to critique communism without having this detailed understanding. I think you can criticise things that you not an expert in so long as you have a basic understanding of what you are talking about (which most people seem to lack with regards to communism.) Of course the more you know, the better your critiques are, so researching the idea you're criticising helps, but its not essential.

    Maybe we can generate some ideas to deal with people who accuse us of being intolerant. Not that I care what people think of me, but I consider it more important to open peoples mind to the idea I'm arguing rather than wanting the person to like me. So, what are some comebacks/rebuttals we can use?
    I like asking for definitions for words such as 'intolerance'. I will typically ask whether they think voicing opposition to an idea is intolerance. If they say yes I would point out that they are (or at least should be) 'intolerant' towards fascism, racism, homophobia and other harmful ideologies. Much like with faith, I would ask them why they think it is virtuous to keep one's opinions to oneself in a free society (assuming the opinions aren't prejudiced insults) and be a doormat, while religious ideas are allowed to dictate political decision making (I just saw a news article about an American politician winning support among republicans for reactionary stances which appeal to the religious right.)

    I'm not good at thinking up quick comebacks, but maybe saying 'yes, I'm 'intolerant' towards the notion that women should submit to their husbands [or insert whatever backwards religion-related position you want here]' would be a good way of showing the harm that comes from people believing things based on faith. Or if you want to be more dramatic you could say 'I'm 'intolerant' towards the notion that if you jump out a window, God will catch you.'

    Another thing you could do is make it clear that you are going after ideas, not people or their culture. Too often attacks against Islam,for example, are based on the notion that Arabs are less valuable than Westerns. So I think we should emphasis the distinction between religion and race/culture.
  3. thriller
    thriller
    As for not criticising things we 'don't understand', there are atheists who grew up as religious people and therefore know very well what they are talking about. I would also ask them (assuming they were not socialists/communists) whether they had a detailed understanding of the writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. and whether they thought it was wrong to critique communism without having this detailed understanding. I think you can criticise things that you not an expert in so long as you have a basic understanding of what you are talking about (which most people seem to lack with regards to communism.) Of course the more you know, the better your critiques are, so researching the idea you're criticising helps, but its not essential.
    The problem that I have with this is if I am debating religion I hate bringing up communism in the sense of criticizing religion/faith because it makes it seem like communism is something you have to have 'faith' in and 'believe' in and takes away from the materialistic aspect of it (in the sense that it puts on the same level as religion/spirituality).