Group avatar: to change or not to change.

I am miffed. Very miffed indeed.

Oh well.

I'm OK with 04...second(close) choice, fine.

As it is a tie then I shall have to do what I was dreading and cast the deciding vote... and I am torn between 04 and 05 (as more members wanted a change than to stay with the current one).


If I vote 05 it would be because A) it is inclusive of all M-L trends (Maoist, Hoxhaist, basic Marxism-Leninism, Ho Chi Minh thought etc) and B) unlike various images of people it is more universal... it represents all M-Ls throughout history rather than just the, obviously, very important Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, it also honours the people in the USSR who fought in the GPW in defence of the USSR and of course Marxism-Leninism.
That and the 05 faction seem to be dedicated and are holding a load of fwuffy bunnies hostage.

As for 04, points in its favour is that more M-Ls wish to have the faces of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin and they were the main creators and continuers of Marxist-Leninist thought. Also on a personal note, I voted to have Stalin included on the group image when it was only Marx, Engels and Lenin as like it or not Stalin is an important figure in our movement and thus differentiates us from other ideologies. Although I have counted his vote (as he was a member and ideally should still be a member) The Old Man from Scene 24 is no longer around leaving only three remaining in camp 05. It is also a well made image and also shows we don't care about the silly "cult of the personality" claims thrown at us by Left-Coms and such.

Hmm....


I hope no one if too "miffed" but I shall vote....


dah-dah-dah







04

Why 04? it just perpetuates the stereotype that all M&L's are Stalinists, 05 is perfect it represents all M&L factions clearly. Also no need to pick and choose which M&L leaders to put in the avatar when the Soviet symbol clearly represents them all in one.

^I concur. The hammer and sickle is more symbolic of Marxist-Leninism than any specific people, I think. It's about worldwide proletarian struggle, past and present, and while the theorists/revolutionaries are important, all Marxists-Leninists can unite under the hammer and sickle.

Oh,look,its STAAAALINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

Vote Stalin in the picture to make the left communists' heads explode.

OK then we should go all out and have a photomontage thingy of a billion pictures of Stalin. But I still say a simple hammer and sickle is better.

Why 04? it just perpetuates the stereotype that all M&L's are Stalinists, 05 is perfect it represents all M&L factions clearly. Also no need to pick and choose which M&L leaders to put in the avatar when the Soviet symbol clearly represents them all in one.

As I say it was a hard choice. Especially since I cropped 05 myself.
Had to make a choice though as we were tied, not everyone will be happy obviously.

Though now I am doubting my choice slightly... however I don't care personally whether Left-Coms, Anarchists etc think we are "Stalinists" as they will not matter what image we use. It goes with the territory a bit.

The main reason I voted for 04 is that it is similar to 01 and thus together more wanted a symbol with the heads (albeit on two different images) as opposed to the star... as I said in my post I could see merits in both images.

OK then we shoukd go all outt and have a photomontage thingy of a billion pictures of Stalin. But I still say a simple hammer and sickle is better.

^I concur. The hammer and sickle is more symbolic of Marxist-Leninism than any specific people, I think. It's about worldwide proletarian struggle, past and present, and while the theorists/revolutionaries are important, all Marxists-Leninists can unite under the hammer and sickle.

That is true but a reason I didn't vote for it was because the symbols are also commonly used by many other Socialists, Trots especially, whereas only M-Ls use the Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin symbolism. I think a case could be made that the "hammer and sickle; and star" has become, at least, a symbol associated with Marxism in general rather than Marxism-Leninism.

That is true but a reason I didn't vote for it was because the symbols are also commonly used by many other Socialists, Trots especially, whereas only M-Ls use the Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin symbolism. I think a case could be made that the "hammer and sickle; and star" has become, at least, a symbol associated with Marxism in general rather than Marxism-Leninism.

You just said we shouldn't care what Anarchists think of our avatar when we were talking about Stalin yet now you care when we want hammer and sickle because trots use it. Comrade you are shooting yourself in the foot with this one

You just said we shouldn't care what Anarchists think of our avatar when we were talking about Stalin yet now you care when we want hammer and sickle because trots use it. Comrade you are shooting yourself in the foot with this one

I am running out of toes. But what I mean too say, though probably phrasing it badly, is that we shouldn't care about having Stalin because non-M-Ls disagree with the site of him; however the use of Hammer and sickle - which I do wear on my coat in real life (for various reasons) - is less M-L-centered than the Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin as that image sums up our movement more than a common Marxist symbol does; it has nothing to do with what non-M-Ls think in this regard just that I find one more evocative of the movement... even if we should still fly the red flag etc in real life and I almost chose it here.

But, again, the main reason is that type of symbol has got more support in this poll over the hammer and sickle... with 4 for 01 and 4 for 04 which are both variants of the same image. There were only 4 for either of the hammer and sickle. I had to choose one after all... could have flipped a coin I suppose.

I have an idea; I'll convince MotherCossack to become an M-L and vote for 05.

I am running out of toes. But what I mean too say, though probably phrasing it badly, is that we shouldn't care about having Stalin because non-M-Ls disagree with the site of him; however the use of Hammer and sickle - which I do wear on my coat in real life (for various reasons) - is less M-L-centered than the Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin as that image sums up our movement more than a common Marxist symbol does; it has nothing to do with what non-M-Ls think in this regard just that I find one more evocative of the movement... even if we should still fly the red flag etc in real life and I almost chose it here.

But, again, the main reason is that type of symbol has got more support in this poll over the hammer and sickle... with 4 for 01 and 4 for 04 which are both variants of the same image. There were only 4 for either of the hammer and sickle. I had to choose one after all... could have flipped a coin I suppose.

What is this US democracy? have to choose between Stalin Stalin and Stalin? you can still change your vote Comrade

Yeah it is a shame that our 05 image didn't get through, Krano (or the Ho Chi Minh one lol), but our new STAAALLLIIINNN has spoken. Seriously, I guess it is fair on the people who voted on the similar images (Marx-Engles-Lenin-Stalin) so I think the group admin should go with that. But I do think that the Hammer and Sickle was more universal, a symbol of all of us rather than four of us, and I preferred it artistically too, because I like simplistic art like that, like minimalism I guess, because I think simplicity is often very powerful.

But I do not mind image 04 I guess. At least the faces are of great men in our movement.

We need to make Coup d'état against this avatar, hammer and sickle for victory ura!

It is the best Avatar we have had

I like it better than the previous one but still. Grumble!

We could have STALLINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN looking awkward:

I would like to have the coat Voroshilov is wearing.I love the big stars. (Although i hate Voroshilov..)

And why is Grigory Ordzhonikidze not wearing one of those damn elegant robes?

We need to make Coup d'état against this avatar, hammer and sickle for victory ura!

Ok. here it is, we'll settle it the Stalinsky way, the "hammer and sickle" faction and the "Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin" faction shall have to purge the try to purge other!

Sweet 04 won And congrats GallowsBird.

Everyone else can go to hell....or a gulag.

And I agree, it doesn't really matter what picture we put ML's would still get called Stalinists if we started worshiping Trotsky. Also, 04 is still quite inclusive of Maoists, Hoxhaists etc.

We could have STALLINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN looking awkward:

Holy shit, that's the Batman symbol on Stalins hat!

But yeah, the new avatar is OK but I think there should be some colours too.

Holy shit, that's the Batman symbol on Stalins hat!

But yeah, the new avatar is OK but I think there should be some colours too.

I was thinking of making it red instead of sepia... not sure what everyone thinks of that?

I'd prefer it red instead of sepia. As long as it is not a combination of red, white and black I'd be happy.

good call Chuncha....might we try red for a few days , get feedback....i was looking for the link...went skating past. red might zip it up a bit.....

I shall do so. And we'll see what everyone thinks.

So what does everyone think of it in red? I'll change it if no one likes it.

Nice.

You combined rave lights and communism? oh god no. Also i dont understand why Stalin is even in that picture Marxism-Leninism was always about Marx,Engels,Lenin not Stalin.