Stronger actions for communism in the US

Only an idiot would propose winning over proletarians by engaging in terrorism or self-important "militias" Ã* la Neo-Nazi groups.

Communists don't win power by acting like Che Guevara. Communists win power through the vanguard, which educates the working class and provides political leadership.

I'm not a Marxist-Leninist, which is why I don't really post, but either I smell a pig or just some who is detriment to the security of this forum and is really naive.


The marxist-leninists here can give there response, but felt this was needed to be said.

The Security of this Forum is always in detriment in my mind. We let you non-Marxist-Leninist in too much. Most of the time when someone said "let stand up and fight" you say that they are trying to get this website shut down. This is the reason why the major of the people on this site have no goals other the troll post.

Only an idiot would propose winning over proletarians by engaging in terrorism or self-important "militias" Ã* la Neo-Nazi groups.

I normally have a high respect for you Ismail, but you crossed the line here. There a lot of better ways to tell him that his ideal would not work right now.

First, you of told him with out a Vanguard party, his group of guerrillas would run into the same problem that the OWS is. Right now the OWS has a complete lack of goals and nothing can be win by peaceful or non-peaceful means without them.

Communists don't win power by acting like Che Guevara. Communists win power through the vanguard, which educates the working class and provides political leadership.

I would point out to you that we communists DID win in Cuba because of Che Guevara. But you are right in point ou the need of a Vanguard party.

First, you of told him with out a Vanguard party, his group of guerrillas would run into the same problem that the OWS is. Right now the OWS has a complete lack of goals and nothing can be win by peaceful or non-peaceful means without them.

Except its lack of goals doesn't come from the sky. It lacks goals precisely because its "theoretical" origins lay in bourgeois liberalism and generic anarchism. It cannot have any goals otherwise because of the fact that it was not initiated by the working class under the leadership of a vanguard.

I would point out to you that we communists DID win in Cuba because of Che Guevara.

The "communists" in Cuba then proceeded to sell themselves as vassals of Soviet social-imperialism. The situation in Cuba cannot be replicated, both because of its results (a petty-bourgeois "socialism" based on military fetishism) and because of the fact that Cuba is not the USA.

Start a People's War in the USA? It looks like something out of ''Guerrilla Warfare'' by Don Quixote. It would thrown off all the advances done by the OWS movement. Yes it is a petty-bourgeois movement, and yes it is inevitably going to fall under reformism. But despite all it's flawns, it will raise the need for a scientific revolutionary anti-capitalist alternative, that can only provided by the Marxist-Leninist vanguard. Not even in Latin America leftist guerrillas are as popular as they were before.

Except its lack of goals doesn't come from the sky. It lacks goals precisely because its "theoretical" origins lay in bourgeois liberalism and generic anarchism. It cannot have any goals otherwise because of the fact that it was not initiated by the working class under the leadership of a vanguard.

No, the OWS was initiated by the working class that's why they have Class consciousness (understand that they are workers and that they make up 99% of the USA) and is one of the reasons why unions came to their defense. But you're right the group is led by bourgeois liberalist and generic anarchist and is one of the reasons that the OWS called unions that came to his defense; "bourgeoisie establishment".

But it still does not change the fact that you should've explained to him the importance of vanguard party and not just call him a Nazi because he advocated standing up to terror with force of arms. You should've explained to him that a vanguard parties needed so we just don't become a violent version of the OWS

The "communists" in Cuba then proceeded to sell themselves as vassals of Soviet social-imperialism. The situation in Cuba cannot be replicated, both because of its results (a petty-bourgeois "socialism" based on military fetishism) and because of the fact that Cuba is not the USA.

It was not a communist in Cuba that sold themselves to Soviet social-imperialism, it was the Socialists like Fidel Castro. Communist like Che Guevara helped to build vanguard party and Class consciousness in Cuba and is one of the reasons we overthrew the capitalist government there. This is the reasons why Che Guevara a man flowers on Stalin grave and said he would fight the octopus anywhere left the safety and power he had earned in Cuba and went to fight for press workers in Latin America. If Che Guevara came to power instead of Castro we would probably all been very happy, instead of angry with the current government of Cuba though at the end of the day a socialist government still better than capitalist one. And is one the reasons why so many communist(like you and me) who travel to Cuba, seem to like to stay even though it's not a communist goverment.

Start a People's War in the USA? It looks like something out of ''Guerrilla Warfare'' by Don Quixote. It would thrown off all the advances done by the OWS movement. Yes it is a petty-bourgeois movement, and yes it is inevitably going to fall under reformism. But despite all it's flawns, it will raise the need for a scientific revolutionary anti-capitalist alternative, that can only provided by the Marxist-Leninist vanguard. Not even in Latin America leftist guerrillas are as popular as they were before.

He was asking about was asking why do we Marxist-Leninist don't make our move right now he fails understand the need for a vanguard party which is nothing no fault on his part we are the ones who should be teaching them how to make one or where to find one. Lenin was not not successful in the Russian Revolution because of the failed September Revolution led by the anarchist but because he had a properly motivated and trained vanguard party.

Today's so-called vanguard parties have very little difference in ideas than those of the current Democratic Party of the United States.

That is why I put forward that we should make a anti-revisionist party platform with true radical ideas should get the attention of workers by showing a clear alternative instead of a different version of the old system.

Are you talking about me in particular, or non-marxist-leninists on a whole?

Revisionist in general.

Just read; Rykov already brought up "What is to be Done?", might be a good start. Branch out beyond Che though, that can be a starting point but he really represents an idealistic adventurism and as far as I'm aware that "Vanguard" was more of a group of "misfit" guerillas. I don't think anyone will deny the progressive nature of Che/Fidel and the Cuban revolution in context of what preceded it though.

And workers do not make up 99% of the USA. It is not 99% vs 1%, that shit needs to be dropped(it skews the whole class-issue). And I've been to the one in Boston and it's primarily liberals and then some anarchists about. It shouldn't be looked over just because of its liberalness though, obviously popular movements in current America aren't going to just adopt radical positions overnight.

People's War is something that applies to countries that are predominantly agricultural and rural. Industrialized and post-industrial first world countries don't really call for guerrilla warfare.

And workers do not make up 99% of the USA. It is not 99% vs 1%, that shit needs to be dropped(it skews the whole class-issue). And I've been to the one in Boston and it's primarily liberals and then some anarchists about. It shouldn't be looked over just because of its liberalness though, obviously popular movements in current America aren't going to just adopt radical positions overnight.

Exactly. Thank you for saying it. Considering the fact that there are around 30,000,000 individual businesses and firms registered in the U.S. (http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html) and 1/3 are petty-bourgeois, that means that there are well over 30,000,000 people in the U.S. who are capitalists. That alone is close to 10% of America's population. And that doesn't count all the giant monopolist capitalists and all of the financiers and banker capitalists and people who own financial capital. It's not a battle of 99% against 1%, as the liberals like to call it.