entrysm.

  1. black magick hustla
    black magick hustla
    Yeah well, in hope of reviving this forum....

    What do you people think about entryism? I don't mean the type of entryism of hoping to bring an organization to the left, but entering with the hope of bringing some members to communist positions and then breaking from such an organization. It worked somewhat well for the grantites, I think. I can't remember what was the link or the name of the article, but Zampanó once sent me an article about forming political centers in organizations frequented by workers.

    I know a lot of left communists are pretty critical about this type of leftist tactics, but I want to know why they think entryism is particularly bad.
  2. beltov
    beltov
    I don't have much time so apologies for the long quote from out pamphlet Unions Against the Working Class, but I think it goes some way to answering your question. It deals with entryism within the unions, but the principle is the same: leftist parties are dead for the working class. Yes, there may be people within them who may be interested in the positions of the communist left, but entryism in order to go fishing for members betrays a bourgeois, machiavellian approach that is deceitful and dishonest. We are against such unprincipled tactics.
    Another argument taken up time and again by the leftists in order to justify their ‘critical’ support of, and participation in, the unions, is to present the unions as organisations which left to themselves would be valuable forms of organisations for the workers’ struggle, but which have been led astray from their true path as a result of bureaucratisation and ‘bad leadership’. Thus for the leftists the question is to ‘reconquer' the unions by making them more democratic (demands for faction rights) and by changing the ‘corrupt leadership’ by replacing it with real workers’ leaders at the top.

    Instead of seeing that bureaucracy and ‘bad’ leaders are inevitable products of the capitalist nature of the unions, people who hold such illusions present both as the cause of the ‘errors’ and ‘betrayals’ of the unions.

    The bureaucratisation of an organisation does not stem from the decision-making power of its central organs. Contrary to what the anarchists think, centralisation is not synonymous with bureaucratisation. On the contrary, in an organisation inspired by the conscious, passionate activity of each of its members, centralisation is the most efficient way of stimulating the participation of each member in the life of the organisation. What characterises bureaucracy is the fact that the life of the organisation is no longer rooted in the activity of its members but is artificially and formalistically carried on in its ‘bureaux’, in its central organs, and nowhere else.

    If such a phenomenon is common to all unions under decadent capitalism it is not because of the ‘malevolence’ of the union leaders; nor is bureaucratisation an inexplicable mystery. If bureaucracy has taken hold of the unions it is because the workers no longer support with any life or passion organisations which simply do not belong to them. The indifference the workers show towards trade union life is not, as the leftists think, a proof of the workers’ lack of consciousness. On the contrary it expresses a resigned consciousness within the working class of the unions’ inability to defend its class interests and even a consciousness that the unions belong to the class enemy.

    The relationship between the workers and the unions is not that of a class to its own class instrument. It most often takes the form of a relationship between an individual with individual problems and a welfare service (‘which knows how to deal with the bosses’). The unions are bureaucratic because there is not and cannot be any proletarian spirit in them.

    The leftists who militate within the unions have assigned themselves the task (among others) of revitalising union life. All they succeed in doing is getting hold of the young trade union militant who begins by believing in the unions, only to become disillusioned and leave, (unless he too becomes a ‘believer’). The only thing the leftists achieve is retarding the awareness of the class of the capitalist nature of these organisations. The Leif-motif spouted by the leftists: “it’s a bad workers’ organisation, but a workers’ organisation all the same” is ultimately the best defence the unions could have in the face of the growing suspicion the workers have about them. The union bureaucrats actually find the ‘fanatics’ committed to ‘constructive criticism’ of the unions their very best allies and touts among those workers who ‘are led astray by anti-unionism’.

    As for the tactic of ‘reconquering’ the leadership of the unions in order to turn them into real class organisations, that simply highlights the same myopic point of view, when it is not merely a smoke-screen for crude bureaucratic machinations. The anti-working class actions of the unions are not a matter of good or bad leaders. It’s no accident that for more than fifty years the unions have always had bad leaders.

    It is not because of bad leadership that the unions do not take part in the real struggles of the working class; on the contrary, it is because the unions are as organisations, incapable of serving the needs of the class struggle that their leaders always turn out to be bad. As Pannekoek observed: “What Marx and Lenin said over and over again about the state, that despite the existence of formal democracy it cannot be used as an instrument of proletarian revolution, applies also to the unions. Their counter-revolutionary force can neither be negated nor brought under control by a change of leadership, by replacing reactionary leaders with men of the ‘left’ or with ‘revolutionaries’. It is the very form of the organisation itself which reduces the masses to powerlessness and prevents them from using it as an instrument of their own will”, (Pannekoek).
    http://en.internationalism.org/pamph...chapter_04.htm

    B.
  3. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    In the British case you certainly have a point. The CPGB's Mike Macnair has written extensively on the problems associated with the British labour bureaucracy and its impediment of independent working-class organization. However, what about red unions in the future (because the fetish with councils isn't good)?

    On a related note, why don't left-communists have a minimum program? I don't mean a defensive faux-minimum program, but rather an offensive one like this:

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/program-ne...818/index.html
  4. Devrim
    Devrim
    In the British case you certainly have a point. The CPGB's Mike Macnair has written extensively on the problems associated with the British labour bureaucracy and its impediment of independent working-class organization. However, what about red unions in the future (because the fetish with councils isn't good)?
    We don't think that 'red unions' are possible today.

    On a related note, why don't left-communists have a minimum program?
    We think that permanent reforms are impossible today.

    Devrim
  5. beltov
    beltov
    I took a look at the 'dynamic' minimum programme, and there's not much 'offensive' in it - just calls for more radical reforms. Yes, the questions of entryism and minimum programmes are related. Jacob, you haven't really grasped the significance of the change in conditions between capitalism's epoch of ascendancy (pre-WW1) and decay (post WW1). You seem to still be glued to the old perspective of seeing capitalism as being capable of granting, the bourgeoisie of being progressive enough to actually listen to demands, of the revolution being a slow process of evolution, and the labour/trotskyist/stalinist parties as still containing proletarian elements that can be rescued. Well, they aren't any more on all counts.

    Jacob, the communist left made a thorough critique of these hangovers from social-democratic practice through the 20s and 30s. You should take a look at some of the ICC's books on this and seriously engage with what the communist left said, and still says today. You'd save yourself a whole lot of wasted time and effort.

    You could start here:

    The Proletarian Struggle Under Decadence

    http://en.internationalism.org/ir/02...decadence.html

    B.
  6. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    I took a look at the 'dynamic' minimum programme, and there's not much 'offensive' in it - just calls for more radical reforms.
    That's the point. Instead of defensive calls like "end privatization," "preserve civil rights," and other demands that have been vulgarized as being "minimum," the suggested program goes on the offensive.

    Furthermore, it is implied that specific demands for participatory political democracy - much like the earlier Marxist call for "democratic republics" - are on the horizon, not to mention the "socioeconomic democracy" demand: yellow-orange-orange-orange-red-red (more oranges are possible, though).

    Yellow-orange: the demands for PR and minimum wage indexing would be yellow, while the 32-hour workweek demand would be orange, for example.

    Second orange: participatory democracy (a minimum demand in the future)
    Third orange: transitional demands like "socioeconomic democracy"

    First red: "Revolutionary-democratic socialism" (a la Eugene Debs)
    Second red: Revolutionary demands (which overlap with the first red except on the question of legality vs. illegality)

    You seem to still be glued to the old perspective of seeing capitalism as being capable of granting, the bourgeoisie of being progressive enough to actually listen to demands, of the revolution being a slow process of evolution, and the labour/trotskyist/stalinist parties as still containing proletarian elements that can be rescued. Well, they aren't any more on all counts.
    Direct action, including spoiled contempt for electoral politics, makes wonders.

    BTW, I criticized the ICC's fetish for decadence after WWI specifically in my Bordiga post here (I've familiarized myself with the ICC's position, as well as the IBRP's more valid criticism):

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...7&postcount=25

    My definition of a revolutionary-epoch Marxist party is in here and here.
  7. Devrim
    Devrim
    Jacob, stop spamming this forum, please.

    Devrim
  8. beltov
    beltov
    Hi,

    I've found another article on our website that deals with the question of entryism. It is a reply to someone who defended the ICP's policy of entryism into the anti-fascist partisans during the second world war in Italy. The original is in Spanish, but there is an English translation too:

    Debate: PrincÃ*pios revolucionários e prática revolucionária
    http://pt.internationalism.org/ICCOl...revolucionaria

    Revolutionary Principles and Revolutionary Practice
    http://en.internationalism.org/iccon...feb/principles

    In short, the bourgeoisie uses its dominant ideology to enforce its domination. Class consciousness can weaken the grip of bourgeois ideology. Revolutionary principles are thus a weapon of the revolution. So, the role of revolutionaries is to contribute to the development of class consciousness by being clear and being principled, not creating confusion and being opportunist. As the conclusion of the article says,

    The bourgeoisie treats the intransigent defence of principles as fanaticism and fundamentalism. For its part, it is the class of pragmatism, of Machiavellian manoeuvres and combinations. Bourgeois politics has become a repulsive spectacle of unnatural alliances, in which all kinds of ideological contortions are commonplace. This is what has produced such general disgust for ‘politics'.

    But the proletariat has no reason to hide things, to cover up its own principles and methods of struggle. There is no contradiction between its historic interests and its immediate interest, between its principles and its daily struggle. The specific contribution of revolutionaries is to develop a form of politics in which principles are coherent with practice and don't contradict each other at each moment. For the proletariat, practice is the intransigent defence of class principles, because it is these which give it the perspective that can take humanity out of its present impasse, it is these which orient its immediate struggles towards the revolutionary future. As our comrades of Bilan affirmed, principles are the weapons of the revolution.
    Has that helped?

    B.
  9. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    ^^^ That has helped significantly. However, consider one more aspect of mine: the program that I have mentioned is NOT electoral.
  10. beltov
    beltov
    JR - the problem I have with your platform is precisely that - it is yours, the product of an individual, not the result of collective discussion and reflection. As Marx said in the Manifesto, "The theoretical conclusions of the Communists are in no way based on ideas or principles that have been invented, or discovered, by this or that would-be reformer. They merely express, in general terms, actual relations springing from an existing class struggle, from a historical movement going on under our very eyes." You come across as one of these would-be reformers, complete with all your own words and colour-schemes.

    B.
  11. black magick hustla
    black magick hustla
    So the opposition to entryism is out of principle rather than out of strategy?

    Isn't that a little bit idealist though? Maybe its a little bit machiavellian if we see the question of entryism from the perspective of bosses and politicians, because entryism disguises our positions to them, not to workers. The whole point of entryism is to reach for workers in those organizations and exposing them our positions. Well, at least of the entryism I am talking about. Some trots, for example, wish to bring a bourgeois organization to the left, while others, wish to reach for workers there and then break appart. I think this was one of the things that let the CWI and the IMT two split into two different organizations.

    I think the whole concept of minimum demands is silly, by the way. Its like when people say "it would be nice that the world would...blahblahblah" but hold instead more "realistic" demands. The trotskyist transitional demands give also that vibe.
  12. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    JR - the problem I have with your platform is precisely that - it is yours, the product of an individual, not the result of collective discussion and reflection. As Marx said in the Manifesto, "The theoretical conclusions of the Communists are in no way based on ideas or principles that have been invented, or discovered, by this or that would-be reformer. They merely express, in general terms, actual relations springing from an existing class struggle, from a historical movement going on under our very eyes." You come across as one of these would-be reformers, complete with all your own words and colour-schemes.

    B.
    Please double-post this in the article thread so that we can continue the (pleasantly constructive) discussion there. Thanks!
  13. beltov
    beltov
    So the opposition to entryism is out of principle rather than out of strategy?
    Yes.

    Isn't that a little bit idealist though?
    No. Were those who defended internationalism during the first and second world wars being idealist? The whole point is to keep alive the revolutionary alternatives, to offer a way out of the traps and dead-ends of bourgeois politics, which include leftism.

    The whole point of entryism is to reach for workers in those organizations and exposing them our positions. Well, at least of the entryism I am talking about. Some trots, for example, wish to bring a bourgeois organization to the left, while others, wish to reach for workers there and then break appart.
    I can sense what you are getting at. Yes, we are all in favour of more people coming over to the communist left. However, we think it is more principled to intervene towards those inside leftist organisations from the 'outside'. We go to leftist meetings and try to get our positions over, but it is very difficult. We discuss with them on internet forums, they can visit our website and correspond with us via e-mail or in writing. This happens quite a lot.

    Sometimes we get contacted by people in leftist organisations and the general approach we encourage them to take - if they want to break with their organisation - is to launch as wide a debate as possible on left communist positions within that organisation, so that the break is made on clear, principled, political positions. This may also have the effect of attracting the more healthier and open elements towards those who are leaving. I don't think this could be classed as entryism, but is a more principled way of achieving the same aim - of winning people to the communist left.

    B.
  14. beltov
    beltov
    Please double-post this in the article thread so that we can continue the (pleasantly constructive) discussion there. Thanks!
    Thanks, but no thanks.
  15. Die Neue Zeit
    Die Neue Zeit
    Very well (since you didn't post in my article):

    JR - the problem I have with your platform is precisely that - it is yours, the product of an individual, not the result of collective discussion and reflection. As Marx said in the Manifesto, "The theoretical conclusions of the Communists are in no way based on ideas or principles that have been invented, or discovered, by this or that would-be reformer. They merely express, in general terms, actual relations springing from an existing class struggle, from a historical movement going on under our very eyes." You come across as one of these would-be reformers, complete with all your own words and colour-schemes.

    B.
    That is off the mark, especially on semantics.

    I do not come across as a "would-be reformer," because others already suggested the idea of a 32-hour workweek, PR, expanded gun rights, class-based affirmative action, anti-inheritance measures, and indexed minimum wage laws. If you had said that my ideas were based on those discovered by "would-be reformers," then you would be half-right. Those would-be reformers, in turn, expressed their ideas from material conditions.

    BTW, in my work I show that I'm trying to get past the Manifesto, so if anything else I suggest you take that historical-piece-of-propaganda-work for what it is and take into account modern conditions.