Change the M-L group picture?

As Marxist-Leninists, overall, I can see that we're all, in some shape or form, in support of Stalin. Yes, we have our criticism's of Stalin as well, naturally. Any real Marxist-Leninist wouldn't hide behind the shadows and refrain from criticizing clear errors. Especially on that of Marxist theories.

Of course, what Stalin represented was a figure who placed the theories of Lenin into practice. The failures that occurred, as that of the successes as well, were not just that of Stalin, but of the theories as well. Yet, we still uphold Lenin as being the figure who developed successful, practical theories that we still use today. Stalin helped make Lenin's theories a reality - whether they were a success or a failure.

And so, I believe it would be a correct means of upholding the logo of not just Marx, Engels, and Lenin, but of Stalin as well. I didn't want to change the logo at all until a democratic consensus was attained from it. So, for those in favor in doing so, respond with "yay". Those not in favor, respond with "nay". Thank you all for listening out.

Red Love & Salutes!

yay

i prefer it stay the way it is.

i prefer it stay the way it is.

That is fine. I believe we'll get more votes like this, but either way will be fine.

yay

Yay !

I've always wanted to change the picture. Suggestions?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs12/i/20...mdestroyer.jpg

http://www.linearossage.it/cccp/Lenin-Engels-Marx.jpg

My personal favorite: http://revcom.us/a/019/pictures/chair-wall-comm2.jpg

I've always wanted to change the picture. Suggestions?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs12/i/20...mdestroyer.jpg

http://www.linearossage.it/cccp/Lenin-Engels-Marx.jpg

My personal favorite: http://revcom.us/a/019/pictures/chair-wall-comm2.jpg

First two I like. Third...ehhh...hahaha

The first two can be easily found in a google images search for Marx Engels Lenin Stalin and the third... well I just like the third

Actually, my position has changed. i like what 4 leaf clover proposed.

Aesthetically, the picture is great. red yellowish and black. i wonder if a more gold look would fit it better in place of the off-yellow. make it more "popping"

also, a rectangle helps to take up any white space that currently exists in the current one. though the flag symbol is great, it is an uneven distribution and is rather ugly.

unless the white space was offset with something else i would stay with this. Maybe in the space under the flag, a red M-E-L in bold or impact font with the same red color would do.
example:


there is a more equitable distribution of color in the image(imagine a white box in total around the image). im not cheer leading my party, im just saying, its set more evenly and not straining or awkward looking. the current flag logo could just have letters under it.


otherwise i support 4 leaf clovers image:

I would be fine with Rusty Shackleford's idea as well.

I would like to change it to this one. In other words yay

I think Stalin's pretty important as far as anti-revisionist Marxism-Leninism goes. All revisionists from Trotsky to Tito, Khrushchov, Gorbachov, Tsedenbal, Gomulka, Avakian, Kasama etc. has upheld the Marx-Engels-Lenin line. It's easy to "uphold" Marx and Lenin, it takes commitment to uphold Stalin as well however

I think Stalin's pretty important as far as anti-revisionist Marxism-Leninism goes. All revisionists from Trotsky to Tito, Khrushchov, Gorbachov, Tsedenbal, Gomulka, Avakian, Kasama etc. has upheld the Marx-Engels-Lenin line. It's easy to "uphold" Marx and Lenin, it takes commitment to uphold Stalin as well however

It also takes a real scientific and materialistic analysis to observe Stalin's unprecedented successes, but also his very monumental failures and crimes. The problem with Trotskyists is that they disregard the former and focus on the latter, whereas rabid anti-revisionists do the opposite. Marxism-Leninism is the most legitimate science that the world has ever produced and to treat it in a less than scientific manner would be a disgrace. Thus, calling Stalin a perfect example of a Marxist-Leninist is kind of dumb, seeing as to the fact that he had significant shortcomings.

It also takes a real scientific and materialistic analysis to observe Stalin's unprecedented successes, but also his very monumental failures and crimes. The problem with Trotskyists is that they disregard the former and focus on the latter, whereas rabid anti-revisionists do the opposite. Marxism-Leninism is the most legitimate science that the world has ever produced and to treat it in a less than scientific manner would be a disgrace. Thus, calling Stalin a perfect example of a Marxist-Leninist is kind of dumb, seeing as to the fact that he had significant shortcomings.

There has never been a perfect person of any kind. Even Marx and Lenin had there "monumental failures and crimes". But we still up hold both Lenin and Marx, as the standard Marxist and Leninist. All this post is asking, is should we do the same for Stalin as a standard for a Marxist-Leninist.

There has never been a perfect person of any kind. Even Marx and Lenin had there "monumental failures and crimes". But we still up hold both Lenin and Marx, as the standard Marxist and Leninist. All this post is asking, is should we do the same for Stalin as a standard for a Marxist-Leninist.

Yeah, I'm sure Marx had monumental crimes that included the murder of democratically elected cadres of the Communist Party; people that were seasoned veterans of the Bolshevik Revolution, but I'm sure Stalin was omnipotent and knew better than the working class that elected the leaders of the Communist Party. A thousand pardons.

Yeah, I'm sure Marx had monumental crimes that included the murder of democratically elected cadres of the Communist Party; people that were seasoned veterans of the Bolshevik Revolution, but I'm sure Stalin was omnipotent and knew better than the working class that elected the leaders of the Communist Party. A thousand pardons.

Ask your self what would of Lenin or Marx have done in Stalin cause. Lenin had answered terror with terror when the white terror broke out. We call this the red terror. A number of people would call this a monumental crime. While I can see why they would label it as one. Also while Marx did not "murder of democratically elected cadres of the Communist Party" he did in some case under mined us. First I think that when he use the word state, he forgot that he ment nation-state. This has lead may people to be against the very ideal of a world -state , which if you read his writing he is for as Marx is a internationalist. Some would say that this is much a crime as "murder of democratically elected cadres of the Communist Party". I don't know why he forgot that we live in a nation state today, city-states were not that long ago.

The first two can be easily found in a google images search for Marx Engels Lenin Stalin and the third... well I just like the third

I think this one would be perfect as it is similar to the current group image, yet includes Stalin.

I think we should include Stalin, and also keep Marx, Engels and Lenin.

I would like to change it to this one. In other words yay

I think it should be that one... though I think it should be more red.

I think Stalin's pretty important as far as anti-revisionist Marxism-Leninism goes. All revisionists from Trotsky to Tito, Khrushchov, Gorbachov, Tsedenbal, Gomulka, Avakian, Kasama etc. has upheld the Marx-Engels-Lenin line. It's easy to "uphold" Marx and Lenin, it takes commitment to uphold Stalin as well however

Exactly. Like it or not the issue of Stalin is what separates us and other Marxist traditions the most in the eyes of many and thus we should show some solidarity with Stalin even though many of us acknowledge his faults (as well as his achievements).

So are we ever going to vote on this?

I hate Kasama for their articles slandering Comrade Stalin....But are they actual revisionists? Outside of that is there a reason you believe they are revisionists?

Not revisionist, but definitely reactionary.

Not revisionist, but definitely reactionary.

Oh, come the fuck on. Kasama is not reactionary. The politics of most of the people on that website are absolutely awful and anti-communist, but that doesn't make them reactionary. They're not calling for society to regress into primitivism or any kind of oligarchy. I think you've used the term so loosely that you have no idea what it actually means.

Mike Ely seems like a genuinely revolutionary comrade who writes for Kasama.