Anarchism your view on it.

With many of us being Stalinist, what is your view of Anarchism and Anarchist. I myself hate them, and see them as a section of the reactionay moment, that uses the fear of govermetn made under capitalism to under mind communism.

Lenin's brother was an Anarchist, there is a good lesson in that story.

I'll assume you mean anarcho-communism and not anarchism's right-wing forms.

They're misguided communists whose irrational fear of any kind of authority ensures they never have a modicum of practicality.

Sounds about right.

I'll assume you mean anarcho-communism and not anarchism's right-wing forms.

They're misguided communists whose irrational fear of any kind of authority ensures they never have a modicum of practicality.

I mean both therse seems to be just as much anarcho-capitalist as anarcho-communism.

Lenin's brother was an Anarchist, there is a good lesson in that story.

You do know that his brother died not doing much other then bring Lenin into politico, and this is mostly after his death.

Most anarchists seem to be misguided by capitalist lies and propaganda surrounding the Soviet Union.

Most Anarchist are just silly liberal kids from bourgeois backgrounds

Ive seen anarchists beat up nazis a few times

They just afraid to get booed from average crowd.

Then can some one tell me why there are some M-L on this site that support them? Hell the anarchist are against union, how can anyone support them?

Then can some one tell me why there are some M-L on this site that support them? Hell the anarchist are against union, how can anyone support them?

I think it's because some people support the idea that as long as they are anti-capitalist, then they're on our side. I think that anarchism and Marxist-Leninism are too different from each other to really be able to form much of an alliance or support for each other.

Anarchists are okay. I don't agree with their ideology, but I consider them to be comrades and I treat them as such. Most of you don't seem to realize that most of these petty inter-tendency feuds only find themselves on revleft. The anarchists who I've met so far have all been intelligent and reasonable people, and not some 'silly liberal kids', just like hardly any 'stalinists' are old insane men with a Red Army fetish.

Anarchists are okay. I don't agree with their ideology, but I consider them to be comrades and I treat them as such. Most of you don't seem to realize that most of these petty inter-tendency feuds only find themselves on revleft. The anarchists who I've met so far have all been intelligent and reasonable people, and not some 'silly liberal kids', just like hardly any 'stalinists' are old insane men with a Red Army fetish.

I suppose you make a good point. I personally know a few anarchists myself. They could be allies in a revolution, I just think that it needs to be known that there are some irreconcilable differences between the two and the time may come for the alliance to end.

I suppose you make a good point. I personally know a few anarchists myself. They could be allies in a revolution, I just think that it needs to be known that there are some irreconcilable differences between the two and the time may come for the alliance to end.

What about people like Noam Chomsky? This guy attacks the Left more then he ever attacks the right, then turns around and clame to be on the left. Also what about all the anti-union anarchists, are you telling me that we only find them here on revleft.

What about people like Noam Chomsky? This guy attacks the Left more then he ever attacks the right, then turns around and clame to be on the left. Also what about all the anti-union anarchists, are you telling me that we only find them here on revleft.

Exactly. That's one of the differences I think is irreconcilable.

Exactly. That's one of the differences I think is irreconcilable.

The anti union part, or them trying to play that they are on the left?

The anti union part, or them trying to play that they are on the left?

The anti-union part. I wouldn't go as far as to say that anarchists are always right-wing. There are left-wing anarchists out there.

The anti-union part. I wouldn't go as far as to say that anarchists are always right-wing. There are left-wing anarchists out there.

But many of these left-wing anarchists are anti-union. I see anyone who is anti-union as anti-Left.

I think they are highly misguided and with very little philosophy behind their stance. Infact they are pretty much just ''trendsters'' who want to look all hip, with a few exceptions.

They are not only anti-Stalin, which is evident by their actions, but anti what true leftism is really about. They are often anti-unionists and support ideas that are contrary to communism, as their actions towards communists highlights.

I think they mean well but are too misguided.

Exactly. That's one of the differences I think is irreconcilable.

Agreed! Anti-Unionism is anti-leftism because the unions are what keeps true leftism strong. They are the voice of the workers.

I think the majority of Anarchists are downright counter-revolutionary in many regards. They are almost like capitalists playing at being leftists a lot of the time. Most of them are college students that want to be "rebels" but can't be bothered to read Marx or many other great thinkers, or don't agree with their important points so they just slap the label "Anarchist" or draw a big "A" on their clothes and that is what they "become" Anarchists "No questions asked". I also think it is the most "street-cred" movement (along with Trotskyism) and that is the reason many are just Anarchists, for the image.

And yes most are Anti-Union as their daddies own factories and stores and thus they are indoctrinated into thinking of them as bad even when they are in their "rebellious" stages of life.

Sorry if I seem harsh on Anarchists but I find them to be misguided at best and Anti-leftist fakes at worst!

Agreed! Anti-Unionism is anti-leftism because the unions are what keeps true leftism strong. They are the voice of the workers.

Agreed! Even if Unions don't support our communist party directly thought funding, they still support us indirectly, by setting up a system so that we can nationalis factory over night.

Indeed. It is something that silly Anarchilds do not realize. The Unions will play a big part in the revolution, even if they are not affiliated with your specific tendency. The Anarchist revolution is doomed to fail for many reasons, including the large anti-Unionism in it. A Marxist-Leninist revolution will meet a lot of obstacles due to anti-Stalin propaganda, but atleast we do not cut off our own hands like the Anarchists do.

now, my knowledge on Lenins brother is a little light, but wasnt he part of the anarchist terrorist movement(or whatever) that existed in the mid to late 1800s in russia?

after the successive failures of the terrorist movement, the idea of an organize and dedicated party came to be?

also, his brothers nom de guarre(sp?) was Lenin as well and thats where he got it.

on anarchism, i respect most anarchists so long as they are class war anarchists. they do have a revolutionary drive. i just dont think anarchism is ideologically capable of creating a organized and dedicated movement. its just bouts of rage at the system a la riots and terrorism.

anarchism predates marxism and marxism predates leninism. yes this is a sort of mechanical or linear way of looking at it but i came from anarchism to leninism. ive met many leninists who had their radical roots in anarchism. and i know many anarchists who are considering the validity of leninism. almost all anarchists agree with Marx's critique of Capitalism, just not the organizational methods of leninism. it seems Anarchism is just a stepping stone into revolutionary politics. is easier to immediately reject all authority, state institutions, and governments out of hand. but it leads to the anarchist(well the less ideologically developed anarchists like i was) to having to confront the shortcomings of its methods and its inability to connect with the goals.

Lenins brother was a Narodnik and helped killing Tsar Alexander III

thats what i thought but i wasnt sure.

i was readign a bio on lenin by Marcu. i put it down though because it was pretty bourgeois.

on anarchism, i respect most anarchists so long as they are class war anarchists. they do have a revolutionary drive. i just dont think anarchism is ideologically capable of creating a organized and dedicated movement. its just bouts of rage at the system a la riots and terrorism.

I don't know too much about the specifics of different anarchist tendencies. Do these class war anarchists think in terms of the classes as Marxists do (proletariat, bourgeoisie, etc.)? It seems to me that most of them are primarily concerned with autonomy and authority of bodies over each other, whereas we Marxists are concerned with class divisions, not these vague concepts of "authoritarianism" and whatnot. It certainly has that revolutionary spirit, I will give them that.

anarchism predates marxism and marxism predates leninism. yes this is a sort of mechanical or linear way of looking at it but i came from anarchism to leninism. ive met many leninists who had their radical roots in anarchism. and i know many anarchists who are considering the validity of leninism. almost all anarchists agree with Marx's critique of Capitalism, just not the organizational methods of leninism. it seems Anarchism is just a stepping stone into revolutionary politics. is easier to immediately reject all authority, state institutions, and governments out of hand. but it leads to the anarchist(well the less ideologically developed anarchists like i was) to having to confront the shortcomings of its methods and its inability to connect with the goals.

As far as I know, Marxism is predated by a conglomeration of different utopian socialist, democratic socialist, and anarchist tendencies along with all the philosophical stuff that Marx and Engels were influenced by early in their lives. Also, Marx did provide some ideas of organization. He and Engels talked about the dictatorship of the proletariat and briefly on how it might be organized and go about doing what it needs. And I would agree with you that it is easy to just hate and reject authority.

I don't know too much about the specifics of different anarchist tendencies. Do these class war anarchists think in terms of the classes as Marxists do (proletariat, bourgeoisie, etc.)? It seems to me that most of them are primarily concerned with autonomy and authority of bodies over each other, whereas we Marxists are concerned with class divisions, not these vague concepts of "authoritarianism" and whatnot. It certainly has that revolutionary spirit, I will give them that.

by class war anarchism i mean anarcho-syndicalism and anarcho-communism(to an extent). i eman it to differentiate from "anarcho-capitalism" egoism/individualism, mutualism, primitivism, and racial anarchism like national anarchism.

As far as I know, Marxism is predated by a conglomeration of different utopian socialist, democratic socialist, and anarchist tendencies along with all the philosophical stuff that Marx and Engels were influenced by early in their lives. Also, Marx did provide some ideas of organization. He and Engels talked about the dictatorship of the proletariat and briefly on how it might be organized and go about doing what it needs. And I would agree with you that it is easy to just hate and reject authority.

Thats what i was refering to. The socialist movement, in its infancy, was utopian. you had the owens and the early strands of anarchism. unscientific and unrefined. then you had more refined forms of anarchism come about when scientific socialism came about. then you had a sort of merger in some areas between parts of marxism and utopianism(which is what ill say is the stuff like syndicalism) and then lenin contributed greatly to marxism.

as for offering organizational methods, you are right. marx and engels did talk about societal organization and briefly about the role of the state, but lenin offered methods for actually building and making a revolution.

thats what i mean about organizational methods. Lenin refined the party whereas anarchism has only gotten as far as simply labor organizing.

Anarchism is the economic strategy a la unions and labor movements. nothing to really offer about political consciousness or the political power of the working class. on the economic realm of its power.

Leninism is the political and economic strategy.unions/councils and political critiquing and action. participation in bourgeois politics to politically attack the capitalist system for all to see as well as economic organization to help the working class to use its class ability to stop all work.

and then you have reformists which are solely about the political arena which was dead on arrival.

by class war anarchism i mean anarcho-syndicalism and anarcho-communism(to an extent). i eman it to differentiate from "anarcho-capitalism" egoism/individualism, mutualism, primitivism, and racial anarchism like national anarchism.

Gotcha. Wait a minute: national anarchism? Now that made me chuckle.

Thats what i was refering to. The socialist movement, in its infancy, was utopian. you had the owens and the early strands of anarchism. unscientific and unrefined. then you had more refined forms of anarchism come about when scientific socialism came about. then you had a sort of merger in some areas between parts of marxism and utopianism(which is what ill say is the stuff like syndicalism) and then lenin contributed greatly to marxism.

as for offering organizational methods, you are right. marx and engels did talk about societal organization and briefly about the role of the state, but lenin offered methods for actually building and making a revolution.

thats what i mean about organizational methods. Lenin refined the party whereas anarchism has only gotten as far as simply labor organizing.

Anarchism is the economic strategy a la unions and labor movements. nothing to really offer about political consciousness or the political power of the working class. on the economic realm of its power.

Leninism is the political and economic strategy.unions/councils and political critiquing and action. participation in bourgeois politics to politically attack the capitalist system for all to see as well as economic organization to help the working class to use its class ability to stop all work.

and then you have reformists which are solely about the political arena which was dead on arrival.

I would thank you if this was a post, so instead I give you this: