Energy Accounting

I would be very interested in the views of non-technocrat HPG members on the method of Energy Accounting as a replacement for the capitalist Price System and currency -- as a method to abolish money, something all communists ultimately strive for. The replies of the technocrats on these views would certainly be interesting too, and such a discussion would serve as a great opportunity for us all to learn more about the subject, and in the best scenario contribute in bringing communist and technocrat thought closer to each other.

Personally, I regard some form of energy accounting as the most logical solution in any form of high-tech communist society. I would enjoy answering questions and criticisms about it, and so would no doubt Serpent. So, let's talk about it!

Wiki definition:

Energy Accounting is the hypothetical system of distribution, proposed by the Technocracy movement, which would record the energy used to produce and distribute goods and services consumed by citizens in a Technocracy, or Technate as the movement calls it. The units of this accounting system would be known as Energy Credits, Energy Certificates, or simply Energy Units. Energy accounting would replace money in a Technate, but unlike traditional currencies, energy units could not be saved or earned, only distributed evenly among a populace. Energy credits would probably not have to be physically handled by the citizens themselves, as the system would likely be computerised. In this proposal, the Technate would use information of all available natural resources, industrial capacity and citizen’s purchasing habits to determine how much of any good or service was being consumed by the populace, so that it could match production with consumption. It is this balance between production and consumption that is represented by the Technocrats' chosen symbol, the Monad. The amount of energy each citizen would have would be equal to what they spend, thus they never have to worry about running out or budgeting, the only constraining factor being the Technate’s resource base and technological level. The reason for the use of energy accounting, according to Technocrats, is that it would ensure the highest possible standard of living, as well as equality, among the Technate’s citizenry.

Technocracy.ca short definition:

5.3.3 What is Energy Accounting?
Energy Accounting is a method of Distribution based on the only measurable factor common to all products and services, and that is Energy. In an Energy Accounting system, all the energy used in the production, conversion, and transportation of goods and services would be accurately accounted for. This would be done by the relevant personnel in each Functional Sequence.
Primarily, Energy Accounting provides the accurate measurement of consumption, as well as production. This would be done with a device relevant to the available technology of the time. Technocracy's first proposed device was called the Energy Certificate. It would be distributed to all citizens and have the features of both a blank cheque and a traveller's cheque. It would be a document that would identify the user, with spaces to record information concerning the purchase, including what was purchased, the time and date, and what distribution center it was purchased from. This information would be immediately tabulated and sent to the Distribution Sequence , which could then use the information to determine what products were needed and where. Today, it is more likely that some sort of smart-card would be used. It could contain a microchip that could record all the relevant information, and also make the card far more difficult to tamper with.
What this would allow is for the Continental Control to know exactly how much of what items are being consumed and where. This information would allow production to be geared to consumption, and that the appropriate amounts of goods be delivered to the areas where they are desired. Since the energy it takes to produce and transport an item does not change, cost of items, measured in terms of energy, would not fluctuate, except in cases where a more efficient method of production was discovered, in which case the cost would only go down.
5.3.4 How would I purchase things? (dr)
Via Energy Accounting thusly, the cost of goods will be stated in terms of energy units and costs would never rise. The available net energy units allocated to people would be deposited automatically into their own accounts as energy credits for them to 'spend.' There would be no tokens (cash) rather like a using a `debit card' that always worked. Once 'spent' by the individual these energy credits which represent amounts equal to the energy used to produce the item would then be used for replacement of the item just purchased by the spender.
Note the effect of this; people will thereby direct the Technate's administration as to what to make and do next. In a Technate the collective will of its citizens direct the country.

How does energy accounting deal with finite resources, EG oil, copper, etc?

Copper will always be needed in the forseeable future. It forms a very important part of electronic equipment, and the available alternatives - noble metals (gold, silver, etc) and superconductors are simply impractical for the vast majority of applications. You might be able to substitute aluminium but that too is finite, even if only less so.

Everything is finite. Finity is not a problem. As long as the resource is not scarce and as long as there is a reasonable recycling program for that resource, it can be used indefinitely as long as there is enough energy to fuel the system. A technate should ideally be a closed system when it comes to all relevant resources except for energy. That is what would make it sustainable. As long as there is an abundance (that is, the supply outstrips demand) of usable copper at any time the system works.

While not being a technocrat myself (albeit a strong sympathiser and generally positive towards most aspects of it), I see energy accounting as the ultimate solution to replace the price system in a communist society -- perhaps after an interim period using labor time vouchers or a similar system.

I would really appreciate comments/questions/criticism from our non technocrat/technocracy sympathiser members such as VG1917.

Isn't copper a relatively abundant substance? Or am I thinking of aluminum?

Isn't copper a relatively abundant substance? Or am I thinking of aluminum?

That would be aluminium. :P

Scarcity today is generally an issue of artificially high demand and artificially high levels of waste.

But some things are genuinely rare, and also have important applications.

But some things are genuinely rare, and also have important applications.

Such as?

And an important application of the original Mona Lisa is what? Viewing pleasure? Then place it in a prominent place for many to visit and distribute copies to those who want them.

Such as?

The elements at the bottom half of this chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth%27s_crust), which have many uses. See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundan...28data_page%29), which lists abundances of elements in sea water and the solar system as well.

Short of matter-matter conversion, some elements are rare and will remain so in spite of their utility.

There is something called "Factor Four" which means that we could actually cut production in half and yet double the access to the resources which most people has.

I would be interested in learning more about this.

I find this topic to be extremely important and think that the question it poses should be highlighted more -- the theory of energy accounting deserves more attention.

Pinned.

I think Technocracy Movement is basically right on proposing to introduce Energy Units instead of money system, but under current irrational market economy these proposals can't be implemented. I think that after Socialist Revolution the revolutionary proletariat should make use of many of Technocracy Movement ideas and in the long run some kind of territorial organization akin to Technate substituting the traditional nation-states is to be established - first on the regional level and than world-wide. However, it can be accomplished only after the complete overthrowal of parasytic capitalism in Global Revolution.

It says that energy accounting system the energy units/credits can not be earned or saved but are distributed equally.

How does it work in practice? (I would like to hear of a hypothetical situation in the now-hypothetical {yet maybe real in the future} example of this)

Can someone transfer credits to another person? (I hope not because he would than be accumulating those credits).

A question I have about energy accounting is how does it account for regulating the consumption of resources, other than energy, which are finite or scarce?

E.g. the last reserves of a precious mineral may not cost much energy to extract, but their value to present and future generations may be a lot more than their energy cost.

But if consumption is limited only by the use of one's energy credit entitlements, how would the use of such precious resouces be regulated?

Would separate accouting system for resources other than energy be needed to regulate their consumption? (with gold accounting systems, steel accounting systems etc)

Or would such resource have some sort of tarrif placed on their energy cost as part of the energy accounting system, to make their cost dearer and thereby diminish demand?

Johnny Darko:

It says that energy accounting system the energy units/credits can not be earned or saved but are distributed equally.

How does it work in practice? (I would like to hear of a hypothetical situation in the now-hypothetical {yet maybe real in the future} example of this)

Can someone transfer credits to another person? (I hope not because he would than be accumulating those credits).

Energy credits could be considered as a representation of production capacity: the individual has a certain amount of production capacity at their command. Aside from that, I think you need to be a little more specific with your question.

Regarding transfer: no, credits cannot be transferred at all. In the classic 1930s plan, all over 25s would get a full allowance, regardless of gender, colour etc., and those under 25, including children, would get some smaller allowance. Obviously infants would still need to have an adult do their purchasing for them (but with that infant's own account), but the idea was that, that way, larger households would automatically have larger access to goods and services and, importantly, women and children would be completely independent when it came to their standard of living.

Of course, the system would not necessarily have to work exactly like that, but that is the general idea. If the allowances for children resulted in too many births (unlikely, I think, but not impossible), for example, the decision could be made to stop such allowances for future children in order to control the population.

A question I have about energy accounting is how does it account for regulating the consumption of resources, other than energy, which are finite or scarce?

E.g. the last reserves of a precious mineral may not cost much energy to extract, but their value to present and future generations may be a lot more than their energy cost.

But if consumption is limited only by the use of one's energy credit entitlements, how would the use of such precious resouces be regulated?

Would separate accouting system for resources other than energy be needed to regulate their consumption? (with gold accounting systems, steel accounting systems etc)

Or would such resource have some sort of tarrif placed on their energy cost as part of the energy accounting system, to make their cost dearer and thereby diminish demand?

The answer is simple: factor in the energy costs of exploration, extraction, processing, recycling etc. of resources. This is automatically done, otherwise the energy accounting system would be worthless. In your example, such a rare resource would have very high energy costs of exploration, which would result in it being "expensive" in Energy Accounting terms. As resources get rarer, their exploration costs tend towards the infinite, so a sufficiently rare material would only get used strategically and would never be used in consumer goods (though that depends on the quantities involved).

For that reason, a gold fork will still be more difficult to get than a steel one, even though gold (I guess) requires less energy to process as it is found natively and so needs no smelting and is relatively soft.

BTW, finite != scarce. All things are finite. Energy is finite, all materials are finite. For Technocracy to work, however, the important and commonly used ones must NOT be scarce: that is, their supply should be higher than the need for them, they should be abundant. Abundance does not imply infinity, and finity does not imply scarcity. Energy Accounting is concerned primarily with regulating things that are both finite and abundant. If abundant things are not properly regulated, they can be become scarce either through depletion, inefficient use of them or, of course, both.

We live in a world (or at least parts of the world, most of us) of abundance but we experience (artificial) scarcity. That is because our economic system is not capable of regulating abundance, so we get resource depletion, waste, pollution and the deliberate reining in of productive forces.

Thanks for that. Makes sense ( a bit like the labour theory of values' accounting for the value of scarce resources).

Could there still be a need for some sort of extra tarrif for resources that become scarce in the longer term?
Eg a mineral may not have much in the way of exploration and extraction costs in the next two or five years ( I think the original technocrat accounting period was two years) but after that it may be gone. Presumably this would be factored into the present day energy cost somehow??