Symbol of HPG

Eh? What is the point?

One must not mistake activity with progress.

How about something that looks a little more high tech?

Well, post the image you had in mind, and we'll see? The symbol should imo both make clear that we are revolutionary leftists, and progressives. The ouroboros might be a good idea for part of it.

Where would this symbol go?

I think the symbol should incorporate a Bohr-style atom, representing science and paying respects to those whose past discoveries enable us to build the future, and a cogwheel, representing industry, which forms the bedrock of technological civilisation. Something like the thing I quickly mocked up below:



Which I plan on using as an avatar. Ideas on incorporating transumanism into the symbol would be welcome.

Make it smaller and put it in the center of an ouroboros?

By the way, Amroë has joined our group as of recently. Perhaps she could write it!

I like the ouroboros idea - perhaps going around the cogwheel?

Are there many transhumanist symbols? Maybe some kind of augmented human figure?

Make it smaller and put it in the center of an ouroboros?

What does the Ouroboros represent?

It'd be nice to incorporate the humanist stick man. Perhaps at the centre, for anthropocentrism.

-Alex

I think the symbol should incorporate a Bohr-style atom, representing science and paying respects to those whose past discoveries enable us to build the future, and a cogwheel, representing industry, which forms the bedrock of technological civilisation. Something like the thing I quickly mocked up below:



Which I plan on using as an avatar. Ideas on incorporating transumanism into the symbol would be welcome.

I think thats a great symbol.

What does the Ouroboros represent?

The ouroboros has several meanings interwoven into it. Foremost is the symbolism of the serpent biting, devouring, eating its own tail. This symbolises the cyclic Nature of the Universe: creation out of destruction, Life out of Death. The ouroboros eats its own tail to sustain its life, in an eternal cycle of renewal.
In the above drawing, from a book by an early Alchemist, Cleopatra, the black half symbolises the Night, Earth, and the destructive force of nature, yin. the light half represents Day, Heaven, the generative, creative force, yang.
Alchemically, the ouroboros is also used as a purifying glyph.
http://www.dragon.org/chris/ouroboros.html

It'd be nice to incorporate the humanist stick man. Perhaps at the centre, for anthropocentrism.

-Alex

I like that idea. Or perhaps on top of everything else, in man's proper place.

Isn't H+ a symbol of transhumanism? Maybe it's a bit too complicated for a graphic, but what about an ouroboros around the cog with the atom inside and a the center an H+?

I've taken all your suggestions onboard, and added an element of my own. The symbol in the middle is the H+, representing Transhumanity and our central emphasis on ourselves above all else.
The ouroboros was added according to suggestions, and I added a circle of DNA encompassing both the snake and the central H+ (both snakes, the process of live the Ourobos represents, and humans being "within the sphere" of biology so to speak), representing the biological sciences, which advances our understanding of our immediate natural world immeasurably.



The atom and the cogwheel remain of course.

That's an awesome picture dude, where did you get/how did you draw that ouroboros it looks great.

I just got the ouroboros off Google image search. I'm considering changing the head, it looks a little lame.

I just got the ouroboros off Google image search. I'm considering changing the head, it looks a little lame.

I just like the way the "scales" look more like metal plating.

The symbol in the middle is the H+

In the middle of that atomic-physics symbol it looks more like a hydrogen ion. Just thought you should know.

Eh? What is the point?

I still don't understand

In the middle of that atomic-physics symbol it looks more like a hydrogen ion. Just thought you should know.

And thus chemistry gets representation too. Hydrogen is the first element of the periodic table.

i propose:


this is b/c medicine is the ultimate example of technological progress applied to human welfare.

It is as an alternative to the physics centered logo; in fact, I think including an atom implies our endorsement of reductionism.

Moreover the Bohr model is too outdated. We need some recognition of the fact that the electrons are represented by a probability cloud instead of discrete orbits. Something that says we look to the future, not the example of revolutionaries from 80 years ago

I think that the symbol that NoXion designed is the best one presented thus far. I can't think of anything better, or even anything to add to it to make it better, honestly. In my view, it's pretty much perfect.

this is b/c medicine is the ultimate example of technological progress applied to human welfare.

I think it is too medicine-centric. It just looks to me like the symbol of a group of communist paramedics :P

It is as an alternative to the physics centered logo; in fact, I think including an atom implies our endorsement of reductionism.

What's wrong with reductionism?

Moreover the Bohr model is too outdated. We need some recognition of the fact that the electrons are represented by a probability cloud instead of discrete orbits. Something that says we look to the future, not the example of revolutionaries from 80 years ago

As I stated when I posted the first symbol, I chose the Bohr model to show that we owe our current knowledge to the work of others in the past. The Bohr model also represents the fact that our knowledge of the universe is incomplete.

I think it is too medicine-centric. It just looks to me like the symbol of a group of communist paramedics :P

In truth, I was troubled by the exclusion of engineering to human progress. But on further thought, the reason we have this symbol in medicine is it represents excising oppression (the snakes - originally worms) through science (the sword).

I'm sorry, but it's hard to convey this point with an atom.

Moreover, the Bohr atom is too physico-chemistry centric.

What's wrong with reductionism?

That would be a great thread to start in this group. But not only reductionism, but the Bohrian model also endorses determinism.

As I stated when I posted the first symbol, I chose the Bohr model to show that we owe our current knowledge to the work of others in the past. The Bohr model also represents the fact that our knowledge of the universe is incomplete.

While standing on the shoulders of giants is admirable, why not the pythagorean theorem (with the right triangle drawn out) or a depiction of the double helix? At least these aren't misleading, much less downright inaccurate...

In essence, I think the reason to use the Bohrian atom is to proclaim the intellectual superiority of late 19th century physics, and engineering as the solution to human problems. I think it unfairly maligns non-physical natural sciences like biology, statistics, medicine, or computer science.

In truth, I was troubled by the exclusion of engineering to human progress.

Uh, did you notice the cogwheel?

But on further thought, the reason we have this symbol in medicine is it represents excising oppression (the snakes - originally worms) through science (the sword).

I don't quite understand how that makes sense. Oppressive societies have medicine too.

Moreover, the Bohr atom is too physico-chemistry centric.

Physics isn't called "the queen of sciences" for no reason. Physics forms the basis for all other sciences. Medicine breaks down into pharmacology breaks down into chemistry breaks down into physics. That's a fact.

Moreover, as our science advances, as we work on the more fundamental level of reality, all the sciences will start to resemble physics a whole lot more than they used to - all the disparate disciplines of the past will engage in a gradual process of unification.

In summary, all science is ultimately physics.

That would be a great thread to start in this group. But not only reductionism, but the Bohrian model also endorses determinism.

That seems quite a leap in logic, especially considering he did much work on the Copenhagen interpretation, which often touted by some as proof that consciousness effects the universe, which rather goes against determinism wouldn't you agree?

While standing on the shoulders of giants is admirable, why not the pythagorean theorem (with the right triangle drawn out) or a depiction of the double helix? At least these aren't misleading, much less downright inaccurate...

Anyone who isn't smart enough to know the Bohr model is inaccurate isn't smart enough to get the meaning of it in the first place.

Anyway, our models have in the past turned out to be downright inaccurate, usually because of something we couldn't possibly have known and then factored in.

In essence, I think the reason to use the Bohrian atom is to proclaim the intellectual superiority of late 19th century physics, and engineering as the solution to human problems.

One: The Bohrian atom is an early 20th century model, not 19th century.

Two: Engineering is the solution to a vast number of human problems, since engineering is applied science and is used in the construction of such things as sewers (providing sanitation), manufacturing (taking the bulk of labour away from human muscle), not to mention providing the tools to make further discoveries which can better the human species.

Human "discoveries" in the social "sciences" are few and far between, while the physical sciences have given us many and much more concrete results.