1. Discipline and Punish

1. Discipline and Punish
Michel Foucault



I take it this is our first text to read, so here's a thread to discuss its main themes and implications.


What does everyone think of it?

Any disagreements with Foucault?

Yay, I'm at the library right now, going to check it out before I leave. Also, if people have useful weblinks/analyses, that'd be cool too. And since we're on the topic of Foucault, for some background you all might want to check out Foucault: Beyond Structuralism and Hermeneutics by Robert Dreyfus and Paul Rabinow. VERY clear, and Rabinow is pretty much "Mr. Foucault."

how far on is everyone with this?

I'd like to join. I did read D&P ages ago but would welcome going through it again.

I will read the first few chapters and report back

Awesome, I'm planning on reading this book some time in the holidays (2 weeks from now, will span 3 months).

Good idea - I have Discipline and Punish already, will get to reading it soon

I understand we are still in our infant stages as a group but do we have an idea of how the logistics of the group will operate?

i say we should allow a good week (or more if that's what you guys think) for everyone to get the book, and then we'll have weekly or so discussions on what we've read - summaries, analysis, argument, questions, clarifications, etc. Foucault can be challenging, so anyone who needs explanation on a specific point can ask questions and get input and answers from other members. Also imo we should gear our reading to apply it to revolutionary theory and practice, so discussions aimed at incorporating Foucault's observations on the history of prisons into post-capitalist judicial systems would be appropriate.

Ok i've decided once my last exam is over next Saturday I'm getting Discipline and Punish out of the library. Funny thing is my last exam involves Foucault.

I think I am in the same boat as Arizona Bay, when holidays come I will be able to start reading this stuff.

My holidays have started, and I got out Discipline and Punish from the library, and it doesn't need to be returned til 5th of Jan. Is everyone else ready to begin this study group?

I think I'm going to read a chapter of Discipline and Punish and post my understanding of it to sort of get discussion going.

I'm still reading through it. It's been a pretty busy past couple of weeks, and my exams are coming up, but I'll do my best to read it soon.

I wasn't able to get a copy of D&P because the library only has it on reserve (and as an "alumnus" I can't check it out :/ ). Anyways, I did check out and read Paul Rabinow and Hubert Dreyfus' Foucault: Beyond Structuralism and Hermeneutics. Some notes swimming around in my head (on D&P) to get a discussion going:

-D&P is about the objectifying social sciences whereas the History of Sexuality is about the subjectifying social sciences. What this means is that D&P is concerned with how humans are made objects (ie. prisoners) for criminology and other academic disciplines. History of Sexuality on the other hand, is about the practices that uncover some "deep"/"interior" aspect of the human subject (ie. hermeneutics, psychoanalysis). So really, Foucault is pursuing a radical critique not just of "power," but "knowledge," and how the two domains are imbricated.
-D&P has an (unilluminated) focus on the lumpen/proletariat and lower classes, while History of Sexuality focuses more on the bourgeoisie. I think these lenses could be fruitfully combined with Marx, ie. how capitalist class structures interact with disciplinary forms of power, ie. who is determined as an "object" or a "subject".
-What is the extent of applicability of Foucault's analysis, ie. are we just talking about Europe in the 1800s?
-Finally, I thought this was a neat line (by David Scott, I believe): "Foucault is kind of like an anthropologist of Europe." What that means is, Foucault defamiliarizes everyday practices, such as the prison system, and shows how even the "strange" (such as sovereign power's dismemberment of the criminal) is intelligible, while the "familiar" (such as humanitarian discourses about the criminal) can appear cruel under a different lens.

My holidays have started, and I got out Discipline and Punish from the library, and it doesn't need to be returned til 5th of Jan. Is everyone else ready to begin this study group?

I'm set here. I just started it the other day and am only about fifty pages in but I'll be farther tonight.

I think I'm going to read a chapter of Discipline and Punish and post my understanding of it to sort of get discussion going.

please do. start a new thread as well. I've got some stuff I'd like to discuss about the first chapter as well so that would be great. also if you're confused about something or need something explained in greater detail (I certainly do) then by all means ask.

edit: good post kalu. yes Foucault's all about putting the fundamental values of modern society into historical perspective. And there are definitely some interesting overlaps and differences between D & P and The History of Sexuality. Just reading the beginning of DP I'm already seeing parallels in his approach and his conclusions on the treatment of crime and sexuality. I'll elaborate more when the discussion is started properly.

I'm a couple chapters into it.

i'm just starting as well, finally got it from the library, but looking forward to discussing it.

i read the book some months ago, but i think i can partake in the discussion. i made an analysis of the roman pantheon (the building) whereby i compared it to the panopticon, maybe this can also be a topic.

Did this ever get anywhere? It's been a while since I read it but would might be able to chip in here and there.

we should resurrect this group!

I'm wondering if this got anywhere? I've found D&P to be very illuminating and it has had a great impact on my conception of power-as-a-relation instead of Capital "P" Power and my development as an Anarchist. I think on a more abstract level, it ties in pretty well with the idea of communism as a living movement struggeling against a power relation (the class relation) and thus exercising a form of power itself, a 'counter-power' if you will. Anyone have any thoughts on it?

well I read D&P so I'd be willing to revisit it in discussion

Same for me here, perhaps someone can make a thread on the forums instead of in this group. I find it easier to discuss on the forums than in groups.