NB! The following is my own view on art, and some might not agree with me. Do you look upon some of the weird modern "art" as an expression of decendence in the capitalistic system? I mean some artists urinate on a wall, and call it art. Or put feces in a can, and call it art. Its even worse than Malevich´s suprematism (fx Black Square), or those abstract paintings that look like something a little child or a monkey could have made. I am not saying that all not-realist art is bad. Things like surrealism (Salvador Dali) is fine. Also such paintings as "La Mitrailleuse" is good, as it shows the mechanization and alienation (the machine gun is the central figure, not the machine gunners), that has also spread in the millitary. Picasso is on the edge. Other "culture" things I include as expressions of capitalistic decandence is things like "Gangsta Rap"
Did you know Dali was a Fascist? Or at least, when asked openly by the media didn't deny being one! Gangster culture is inseparable from the whole drug aspect, and I think the growing size and power of the black market in some countries is a sign of capitalist decadence..but it also feels weird to use the term in that way. I think the main point is capitalism, due to various crises, has begun and is well into not being able to sustain itself, therefore it is heading towards collapse. At least neoliberal capitalism as we knew it. Anyways, Hip-Hop is a musical movement in itself, and even though Gangster rap is considered a genre, Hip-Hop itself has shown to be very progressive socially in many aspects. I'm not defending the Russell Simmons and Jay-Z's who basically went from the streets to corporate execs...I think Hip-Hop was originally an organic proletarian art form. I mean from graffiti to break dancing to scratching...these are all art forms and disciplines that came from the street culture of working class New Yorkers in the 70's and 80's...and now it's become such a large thing that part of the Hip-Hop world has fallen into the realm of Pop music and culture, which are in my opinon, bourgeois as hell.
Did you know Dali was a Fascist? Or at least, when asked openly by the media didn't deny being one! No i didn´t, and i am also talking about aestetics. Of course you can have a progressive message in a song in hip-hop style, but i cannot tolerate for example Snoop Doggs hip-hop (sexist, money-centrist, meaningless violence etc.).
Gustav; that is a very interesting comment. Actually in ICC's decadance pamphlet it is said; "In the sphere of art, decadence has manifested itself in a particularly violent way, and it would take a long time to discuss the evolution of art faced with a world that has become an aberration. As in other periods of decadance, art, if it does not stagnate in an eternal repetition of past forms, seeks to take up a stance against existing order, or is very often the expression of a cry of horror." http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/decadence And an example of that in the decadance of feudal mode of production; "The period of stagnation saw the rise of mysticism in all its forms. The intellectual form with the ‘Treatise on the Art of Dying', and above all, ‘The Imitation of Jesus Christ'. The emotional form with the great expressions of popular piety exacerbated by the influence of the uncontrolled elements of the mendicant clergy: the ‘flagellants' wandered the countryside, lacerating their bodies with whips in village squares in order to strike at human sensibility and call Christians to repent. These manifestations gave rise to imagery of often dubious taste, as with the fountains of blood that symbolised the redeemer. Very rapidly the movement lurched towards hysteria and the ecclesiastical hierarchy had to intervene against the troublemakers, in order to prevent their preaching from increasing the number of vagabonds (...) Macabre art developed... the sacred text most favored by the more thoughtful minds was the Apocalypse." (J. Favier, From Marco Polo to Christopher Columbus, p152f). " http://en.internationalism.org/ir/20...e-of-societies I think this last quote is expressing the actual reality in a perfect way. ********* On the discussion about hip-hop. Actually I do not know much about it. But as a form of music, my main feeling is that it is a little bit undeveloped since there seems to be only rhytms but no melody etc. In one sense yes the words might be agressive or radical. However every new artistic tendency might have some critical elements in its birth. Of course I might be totally wrong, so I am not trying to imply that rap is an expression of decadance. Whatever, trotsky's "Literature and revolution" might also be an interesting reading on art and revolutionary art. I have just begin reading it. It looks interesting.
I think modern act those express decadence, in the sense that it expresses some sort of despair and negativity, but not decadence in the sense that these works are not beauitful or are of lower value than renaissance works. the world is miserable, and it makes no sense to celebrate its beauty in this times.
Hip hop is one of the most class conscious forms of rap, despite some of it's short comings.
Godstomper; yeah it might be so. I do not know much about it. I am only trying to say that when you have a superficial look at mtv then rap is looking like a little... shitty...
So are you suggesting there should be worker's councils that decide what art is acceptable and what isn't? Art is all about personal preference.
So are you suggesting there should be worker's councils that decide what art is acceptable and what isn't? Oh god no. People in this thread are discussing the correlation between the decline and decay of capitalism and the decline and decay of society in general-- morally, socially, and as some would argue in this thread-- artisically.
