Is it just me or...

...does Trotskyism seem more like an ideology for intellectuals rather than proletarians? Like I seem to know more about the ML point of view on things than the Trotskyist point of view and I didn't even consider myself to be an ML, but a Trot.

Are you calling ML stupid? No, I don't know.

Not really, I meant Trotsky love to use stalinism rather than going on using the term revisionist and bureaucrat.

BR misunderstood the question.

Well I can imagine Trotskyism isn't very appealing to proletarians when almost all trot's denounce previous proletarian revolutions. Instead of playing the role of revolutionaries, I think the largest part of Trotskyism has been about judging and critiquing from the side-lines.

The only trotskyist who ever really did anything was Trotsky. It gets even worse when you have "third-camp trotskyists", who were in favor of describing the Soviet Union as a full fledged capitalist state, those who opposed both "STALINISM!" and imperialism (like Tony Cliff for example).

Maybe you should read what Comrade Alastair has to say, since this post of his is about exactly this.

Well I'm getting more and more convinced that MLism is the correct path.

Though I think Trotskyism is an acceptable Marxist interpretation, I hold a particular loathing for Third Campism and the bastard neoconservative child it conceived.

Good to hear that, InsertNameHere. Trotskyism often falls into the trap of elitism, which is why Trotskyist movements are usually complete flops in places with actual revolutionary potential. The few Trotskyist groups I actually think have a decent line (Spartacist League, League of the Fourth International, International Bolshevik Tendency) are incredibly hostile sectarians.

Though I think Trotskyism is an acceptable Marxist interpretation, I hold a particular loathing for Third Campism and the bastard neoconservative child it conceived.

This.

Good to hear that, InsertNameHere. Trotskyism often falls into the trap of elitism, which is why Trotskyist movements are usually complete flops in places with actual revolutionary potential. The few Trotskyist groups I actually think have a decent line (Spartacist League, League of the Fourth International, International Bolshevik Tendency) are incredibly hostile sectarians.

That is what really bothers me, the whole elitism aspect. If a "revolutionary" group just consists of a bunch of intellectuals I don't think that's going to be very appealing to the common person. As we all know so well, Communism is about liberation. That of course won't happen without a worker's vanguard.

I think I can describe my view of what most trotskyists are in a single Dutch phrase: "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal." or translated: "The best sailors stand ashore." All they do is denouncing proper workers states like the Soviet Union.

That's not why Trotsky said the workers needed to overthrow the USSR. It was because the Comintern did nothing to stop the Nazis from taking power, that Trotsky became convinced that it was no longer possible to reform the Soviet government.

I've known many proletarian Trotskyists, and there are a lot of myths about Trotskyism that really ought not be repeated. The big problem of Trotskyism is their dogmatism, but in that they are hardly alone on the left.

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I don't know about that. There are plenty of working class Trotskyists and plenty of non-Trots that have no working class ties or more than cursory interest in their struggles.
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