Conversation Between 727Goon and hatzel

  1. hatzel
    3. I don't think I should call myself a communist unless I advocated a communist economy, but as it is I'm more of an anarchist without adjectives. I expect people to try communism in an anarchist society, as I expect them to try all manner of other economic systems. I'm personally not afraid of money or the market if it (and society as a whole) is structured in a way that is beneficial to the people, rather than dehumanising. And I feel that if I am willing to accept the potential existence of money and the market, it doesn't seem at all suitable to refer to myself as a communist, even though I would also probably embrace a communist economy, if it could be made to work and if it could be organised in such a way as to benefit the people. It would depend entirely on the state of society at that time, whether or not this or that economic system would be feasible; I expect the most suitable economic system to change over time, as society itself develops.
  2. hatzel
    2. Not to discuss this one at too much length, but Landaur's position in Zionism is pretty vague - there seem to be conflicting reports. On the one hand, it's known that he agreed with an article written which was critical of Zionism (or at least political Zionism), but, on the other hand, he had agreed to speak at a conference concerning the kibbutz movement (though died before he could get there), and was very influential in the kibbutz movement, because he'd suggested people set up communes, so it's pretty ambiguous what his position was. I assume he would have supported many aspects of the kibbutz movement, but probably opposed other streams of Zionism, particularly Herzl's political Zionism. Perhaps he would have held a similar position as Martin Buber (who was a great friend of his, and a member of many of the same political and cultural organisations) in campaigning for a bi-national state, had he only lived long enough. Alas, we'll never know...
  3. hatzel
    Turns out a wrote a shitload of stuff, so I'll do this one as three messages. This is the first bit:

    Yeah, see, I respect that. I...hate 'ideology' and dogma, I really can't stand those who follow Marx like some kind of demi-god or something, and just assume that every single word he wrote was accurate, and that anybody who contradicted him was wrong...I much prefer free thinkers, even if that sometimes puts you at odds with others. It's not worth sacrificing your ideas just to 'match' others.
  4. Haha thats pretty funny actually. I can relate though cuz my politics are a mixture of a whole bunch of different influences that most people probably wouldn't think go together well and I feel you about how it's kind of isolating when you don't really have a specific tendency. I've read a little bit about Landauer, and he seemed cool in that he seemed to not be bigoted like a lot of other anarchists of the time period were, although I think I read somewhere that he had Zionist sympathies so he might have been prejudiced against Palestinians or whatever. I know of Tolstoy as a writer mainly but I though he was more of a pacifist, I didnt even really know he was an anarchist to be honest. Anyways were you the guy who was saying you were a socialist and not a communist? What would you say the difference between socialism and communism is, especially coming from a non-Marxist perspective? Like anarcho collectivism or something?
  5. hatzel
    We've had a fair number on both counts, actually, both secular and religious. That is, there have been a number of rabbis running around quoting Kropotkin in their sermons and stuff, for example But only a few have really tried to synthesise the two ideas and create a coherent amalgamation of the political and the theological, so I almost feel as if I'm breaking new ground here!

    Personally, I'd say that I come straight from the tradition of Gustav Landauer, when it comes to politics, though of course the Christian anarchists like Tolstoy have also been influential. Really I just draw this and that from all manner of places, some political, some philosophical, some theological, and just weave them together. It leaves something which is admittedly pretty unorthodox, so I occasionally feel somewhat isolated amongst socialists, but here's to hoping that, in 50 or 100 years, everybody's realised I was right all along!
  6. Thats pretty interesting. I'm sure there have been a lot of Jewish anarchist thinkers over the years, but I've never heard of any who mixed Judaism as a religion and anarchism before. Which anarchists if any are your politics influenced by?
  7. hatzel
    Let's just call it...my own little synthesis. I've ready plenty of stuff on liberation theology, which has influenced my thinking, but I'd still just call it anarchism, in a form that fits in with Judaism, so that it can more readily be spread amongst religious Jews. And so that I can like it, too, of course!
  8. Hey man I noticed that you say you're not a Marxist, are you an anarchist or are you a religious socialist? Is there a Jewish equivalent to Liberation Theology?
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