Conversation Between CommunityBeliever and Ismail

  1. CommunityBeliever
    You are pretty obsessed with these two individuals though, your avatar is of Stalin and your tendency is of Hoxha.
  2. Ismail
    It isn't like I reply with "WELL STALIN SAID" or "WELL HOXHA SAID" in normal conversations with people on socialism, history, etc.
  3. CommunityBeliever
    I agree that Stalin and Hoxha were not divinely inspired so they must have flaws and they must have made mistakes. Since you know so much about Stalin and Hoxha I was figuring you could describe some of these flaws. Then once the flaws of these individuals is understood I don't understand the obsession with them, shouldn't we follow science and not individual dogmas?
  4. Ismail
    Apparently when I said that it means Hoxha was a perfect human being and absolutely never made any mistakes ever.

    I concur with what Bill Bland said about Stalin, and I feel it applies to Hoxha as well. "I don’t think we have anything to criticise Stalin for, of course one could point out mistakes that Stalin made, but Stalin being a living person and not a divinely inspired person, must have made some mistakes, but I can’t find any. I have read the whole of his works and I can find nothing today even after all this hindsight that is available to us now, there is nothing he said, definitely said, that is inaccurate now."

    Obviously this concerns matters relating to socialist theory and such, not the length of hair.
  5. CommunityBeliever
    I asked you if you could find identify any flaws in Hoxha and you replied that "I cannot find any in him" so at the time you didn't identify Hoxha's conservatism as a flaw.

    Furthermore, I never stated that the opposition to hair is a pillar is a fundamental pillar of Marxism-Leninism. My previous point was that Marx, Lenin, and Hoxha were all flawed individuals, we should identify with science rather then the dogma of flawed individuals. This is best represented by the tendency scientific communism.
  6. Ismail
    I never said they aren't flawed. You're the one acting as if his denunciation of people having long hair is some sort of pillar of Marxism-Leninism.
  7. CommunityBeliever
    I don't see how you can reasonably state that Hoxha's attacks on long haired people aren't flawed. Its like I said before, everyone including Hoxha has flaws.

    Comrade Mao Zedong said "dogma is less useful then cow dung." I agree with this point and I think we should abandon all dogmatic attachments to flawed individuals such as Hoxha and create an ideology that is adapted to modern conditions.
  8. Ismail
    I cannot identify any in him.

    Bland's comments on Stalin near the end of this interview apply to Hoxha as well: http://marxists.org/history/erol/uk....-interview.htm
  9. CommunityBeliever
    I am not a Marxist, Leninist, or any person-ist I am only a scientist. I believe the GPCR from 1966-1971 was the greatest advancement towards socialism so far and this is one reason you may call me a "Maoist" but I prefer to be referred to as a scientific communist. The more that I think about it, it doesn't make any sense to label yourself in terms of individuals, that is a practice the left should do away with. All individuals are imperfect and they all make mistakes, even Marx, Lenin, and Hoxha and that is why I am wondering what mistakes and flaws you can identify in Hoxha.
  10. Ismail
    Not really, no. I also hold this view of Stalin, as do many consistent Marxist-Leninists.
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