Skinheads

[Holden Caulfield]

A Short Introduction to Skinheads


Regardless of the majority of public opinion and of the bullshit spread by the mainstream media, the undeniable truth is that real Skinheads are not racist. The view that Skinheads are connected to the far-right became common because of the hi-jacking of the Skinhead movement by Nazi organisations such as the NF (National Front) and the BM (British Movement), and of the refusal of the media to give real Skinheads a voice.

Far from the fascist orientations that the newspapers and Hollywood would have you believe the reality is that the Skinhead movement was created by the integration of the British Mod and Jamaican Rude Boy subcultures. The immigration boom of the sixties forged the black and white working-class youth of the UK together, who alienated by the predominantly middle-class Hippy scene, founded their own movement based around the influx of Reggae music that was pouring into the UK at that time. The boots and shaved heads acted as a sign of rebellion, although there were also practical reasons such as working and fighting. The tragic irony is that, despite suffering from a racist and xenophobic stereotype, Skinheads are a product of immigration.

Over the years Skinheads (like many subcultures) have split into a number of different types or groups. The most notable change came in the early eighties when some Skinheads merged with the Punk movement, the result of this unholy alliance being the creation of Oi music.
Music, which is central to the Skinhead culture, can vary from Skinhead to Skinhead but will nearly always include one or more of the following - Hardcore, Motown, Northern Soul, Oi, Punk, Reggae and Ska. Although despite the musical and slight clothing differences no real Skinhead forgets the fact that their origins are based in that same multi-ethnic, working-class movement of the sixties.

The Skinheads

Trads - Traditional Skinheads
A reflection of the first Skins, Trads tend to listen mainly to Northern Soul and Reggae and many wouldn't be caught dead listening to Oi or Punk. Heavily into scooters, most Trads are more like Mods than Punks or hooligans. This isn't really surprising considering the Mod origins of Skinheads, in fact Skinheads were originally known as Hard Mods. Like all real Skinheads Trads are anti-racist, but they usually keep their politics to themselves. Obviously there are Trads in movements like SHARP and RASH but due to the fact that they are active in regards to their anti-racism and politics means that they will usually be labelled as SHARP or RASH first and a Trad second. As the old guard of the Skinhead movement Trads tend to leave the street presence and Nazi-bashing to the angrier, and usually younger, Punk influenced Skins.

SHARP - Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice
SHARP began in 1987 among the Skinhead scene of New York. At the time there was a severe Bonehead (Nazi Skin) problem in the New York area. It was felt that the real Skinheads needed to be seen as more active in their stance against racism as there was the very real possibility that the Skinhead movement could become overrun with fascists. SHARP organised and collectively they went on the warpath, seeking out and physically confronting the Nazi scum. After a few years the Nazis were run out of the area, leaving New York (for a time at least) effectively free of any significant neo-Nazi threat. In 1989 the concept of SHARP was imported into the UK and then mainland Europe by Roddy Moreno, a member of the Cardiff Oi band The Oppressed. Thanks to Roddy (among others) SHARP spread and now exists in many parts of the world.

It is important to point out that SHARP is a movement and is NOT a political organisation. SHARP's come from all walks of life and have a varity of political, religious and social beliefs. They are united by their concerns of racism, both within and outside of the Skinhead scene, and are of the same opinion that racism must be opposed, violently if need be.

RASH - Red and Anarchist Skinheads
RASH, like SHARP, began life in New York. However whereas SHARP was formed because of a sense of unity when faced with adversity, RASH was formed because of a need that occured through tragedy. During the early nineties when SHARP was at its height, a group of anti-racist but right-wing Skinheads murdered a gay man right in the middle of SHARP NYC's patch. This incident horrified the entire SHARP movement and the SHARP's that had Anarchist and radical left-wing beliefs decided that declaring themselves as simply anti-racist was no longer enough. The subsequent breakaway from SHARP by the Red and Anarcho-Skins lead to the formation of RASH. This marked a change in the Skinhead movement; Skins were now open and very vocal about their political allegiances. RASH consider it their duty to participate in the fight against capitalism and all forms of fascism.

Again like SHARP, RASH spread out from the East Coast of the US. Although the difference is that in some countries RASH is more of a structured organisation, and in some cases national RASH groups are broken down further into regional crews.

The Scum

Boneheads - Nazi Skinheads
Basically, ignorant fuckwits. Boneheads seem to ignore or completely deny the origins of the Skinhead movement, although considering that they are of the same ilk as Holocaust deniers perhaps we shouldn't be surprised. When not wanking over pictures of Adolf, Boneheads listen to right-wing influenced rock music. Bonehead rock is actually quite diverse, in recent years the Boneheads have begun to invade the Black Metal scene, this has lead to the creation of NSBM (National Socialist Black Metal).

Generally speaking though Boneheads listen to Nazi Oi and Punk. Most notorious among this "musical genre" are the band Skrewdriver, they are an integral part of the B&H (Blood and Honour) music scene. Rather contradictory to their homophobia the head of security for Skrewdriver and B&H was once a well known Bonehead, called Nicky Crane, who was openly gay. It seems that none of his mates dared to say anything about it, at least not until after he died whereupon all of his so-called friends began to slag him off. Another phrase which is often used for Bonehead music is RAC (Rock Against Communism), this was the far right response to the Rock Against Racism movement and is nothing more than a badly disguised attempt to spread neo-nazi propaganda. There are Bonehead political groups but they tend to be unorganised and usually fall apart due to infighting, most famously was Combat 18. A few years back it was discovered that the deputy "fuhrer" of C18 was a grass for the secret service, needless to say not long after this little revelation C18 collapsed. A lot more recently was the case of the bizarrely named white power gang, The Wolf's Hook White Brotherhood. The founder of which, Mick "Belsen" Sanderson, was stabbed to death by one of his own mates. Unfortunately, regardless of all this, these Bonehead wankers continue to pop up with various new groups.

Boneheads are usually identifiable by their charactiture Skinhead image of combat gear, twenty eyelet boots and ridiculously wide braces. If this doesn't apply then generally Boneheads have an inbred, knuckle-dragging appearance about them. Boneheads are the worst kind of filth, not only do they spout mindless racist drivel but it is because of them, and lying scumbag journalists, that people associate Skinheads with fascism. No real Skinhead will be happy until the eradication of the Boneheads is complete.

Fence Sitters
The Skinheads known as Fence Sitters, also known as Fence Walkers in North America, are quite frankly fucking idiots. They claim to be totally apolitical and will happily drink with real Skinheads and black and Asian people but will feel equally as comfatable associating with Boneheads and other fascists. Some will even listen to Bonehead music and attend B&H gigs, understandably this is all rather confusing. They often claim to be just working-class and nothing more with no problem with anybody, but as anyone with a fucking brain will realise, fascism (in all its forms) is an anti working-class ideology. It is because of Fence Sitters that many RASH argue that it is necessary for Skinheads to be vocally political in order to "smoke out" the enemy amongst us. For obvious reasons when descriptions of Fence Sitters are given the words 'gutless' and 'worms' are often used.

So, whats the point of all this? Quite simply if you encounter a Skinhead do not automatically judge them to be a fascist. Ask around, if they are well known then people will probably know which side they are on. If they are indeed a real Skinhead then you could always buy them a pint and chat about the football, if they are one of the scum then you could always punch them in the face.
Cheers for listening.

[Holden Caulfield]

check me out bumping a closed thread, moderate-y as fuck eh

*bump*

[OneNamedNameLess]

What? I'm confused now. How come I can't thank you for that post?

[Bandito]

http://www.claytoncubitt.com/galleries/work/lagos_calling/lagos_calling02.jpg

[Partizani]

A very easy way to distinguish nazi skins is check thier boot laces. White laces are generally rookie types but are still dangerous, white obviously standing for thier white-power bullshit. Red laces are the dangerous types, this is a kind of award given by the group leader after the nazi-skin has performed a act (useually assaulting enemies).

[OneNamedNameLess]

A very easy way to distinguish nazi skins is check thier boot laces. White laces are generally rookie types but are still dangerous, white obviously standing for thier white-power bullshit. Red laces are the dangerous types, this is a kind of award given by the group leader after the nazi-skin has performed a act (useually assaulting enemies).

Does the red laces thing come from the KKK? Their leaders wear red and all that.

[nuisance]

Brace and lace colour don't really have much relevance in the UK anymore, sure you'll get the odd on but it's not a sure way of picking out a fascist skin. However, from what I'm told, in the States and Canada it's a very different story.

[Bandito]

In the Balkans, the story is still the same. White laces mean bonehead, while black laces are worn by both sides. Anarcho-kids wear red ones.
I think that separation is foolish, dumb and lacks of every mature detail, but in cases you need to determine which one is a nazi it can prove useful.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I don't know. The majority of skins seem like cowards. Have beef with on and you end up talkin to 8 big white guys, the original fool and his gang. I mean "crew". I guess individual skins who roll solo can be down but I see no substantial difference between skinhead crews and regular ass gangs. Cowards who can't handle their own business and need 20 dudes to back em up in a 1 on 1.

[Il Medico]

I am glad you posted this, there are a lot of people who group all skins together as Nazis, which isn't right.

[Manifesto]

Before today never knew there were other types of skinheads. But wouldn't a majority of them be racists? Who would be a skin head with all the bad rep its got now.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Who would be a skin head with all the bad rep its got now.

Same reason we still have Nazis and Fascists around today.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

A very easy way to distinguish nazi skins is check thier boot laces. White laces are generally rookie types but are still dangerous, white obviously standing for thier white-power bullshit. Red laces are the dangerous types, this is a kind of award given by the group leader after the nazi-skin has performed a act (useually assaulting enemies).
Although red laces are also worn by commie skins, so it's tricky.

[Stand Your Ground]

Good post. I hate the media stereotyping all skinheads as racist.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Before today never knew there were other types of skinheads. But wouldn't a majority of them be racists? Who would be a skin head with all the bad rep its got now.

I'm not being funny but did you read the article? Why should skinheads stop being skins because the Nazis have bastardized their image? Did socialists stop labeling as socialists as a result of the Nazis adopting the word? If you ever attend any demos in Europe there is bound to be some Anarchist skinheads present. I know your in the US and all. Skinheads on the far left are extremely different from skins on the far right.

[Mala Tha Testa]

Who would be a skin head with all the bad rep its got now.

Me.
Hahaha.

[Искра]

In the Balkans, the story is still the same. White laces mean bonehead, while black laces are worn by both sides. Anarcho-kids wear red ones.
I think that separation is foolish, dumb and lacks of every mature detail, but in cases you need to determine which one is a nazi it can prove useful.
Dear "zemljak", in Croatia Oi! kids wear white laces, Young Antifascist white ones, Nazis same, RED Skins red ones, Punks in any color. That's confusing, right?

[Bandito]

Confusind indeed, that's why I call the "lace identity" a joke and irrelevant in real struggle.
But, it is also important that people distinguish a difference between skinheads and boneheads. S.H.A.R.P.S get the same treatment in a negligent society as the boneheads, which is a disaster. Real skins are a product of the working class, product of immigration in Britain, anti-racist in its origins and as such group should be well known as what they are, and it's definitely not the thing that a scumbag like Ian Stuart constructed.
It's not skinhead's's fault that Hollywood prefers boneheads.


By the way, I think this thread should be stickied. There are lots of people, even on this board, who don't know the differece between skinheads. Holden's way of putting things is very simple, effective and informing, so my vote is : sticky it.

[kharacter]

By the way, I think this thread should be stickied. There are lots of people, even on this board, who don't know the differece between skinheads. Holden's way of putting things is very simple, effective and informing, so my vote is : sticky it.
I second this, people being blamed for something they haven't done is simply horrid

[Искра]

Well for me only skinheads that are "any good" are those from 1969 :)
But The Redskins are good band, even they are in Trotsky's fan club ;)

[Mala Tha Testa]

By the way, I think this thread should be stickied. There are lots of people, even on this board, who don't know the differece between skinheads. Holden's way of putting things is very simple, effective and informing, so my vote is : sticky it.
I second this, people being blamed for something they haven't done is simply horrid

I third this!

[Bandito]

Well for me only skinheads that are "any good" are those from 1969 :)
But The Redskins are good band, even they are in Trotsky's fan club ;)

What is your opinion on R.A.S.H, comrade?

[Искра]

What is your opinion on R.A.S.H, comrade?
I don't like to have rash... :(

Now serious:
I have nothing against any subculture which is not promoting reactionary ideas.

There are no real RASH's in Croatia, so I can't say that I met RASH.

But, also I don't think that any subculture can offer prosperity for ideology, because in subcultures identity and lifestyle are the most important things. It's more important to have red laces than "class struggle" it's more important to have "palestinka" over your face in some kind of peaceful protest than to organise and fight for something more. In one word subculture thing is not serious. Most of the people when they reach 25 or 30 they don't connect themselves with this subculture any more, so they leave politics which was part of that lifestyle. That's sad, because then we have to much liberals.

The saddest thing is that politics becomes part of a lifestyle.

The good thing about RASH is that kids who are fed up with the lifestyle shit, can join revolutionary organisation, because they believe in more.

[OneNamedNameLess]

I echo the call to sticky this.

[Hoggy_RS]

This is a good topic, I wasn't really aware of the different groups of skinheads. Where I live, there is just the one group of skinheads I ever see and there definitley of the bonehead variety(one is always wearing a swastika armband).

[Bandito]

(one is always wearing a swastika armband). http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1527346)

What a poseur. :D

[The Bear]

well im suprised to see how redskins work... they acctually prefer hanging around even when its not protest march , any meeting or something official... they go outside , drink togheter , stick togheter, talk about ideas :) ... i like music party esspecially :D ... sounds good

[StalinFanboy]

Brace and lace colour don't really have much relevance in the UK anymore, sure you'll get the odd on but it's not a sure way of picking out a fascist skin. However, from what I'm told, in the States and Canada it's a very different story.
Not really. The poser types still think braces and laces mean anything, but I wore red laces, and all the trads and sharps I know wear white.

Basically, if someone tells you that you're wearing the wrong laces, punch them in the mouth.

[Holden Caulfield]

stuck

[Bandito]

;)

[communard resolution]

I don't think the original skinheads in the 1960s were quite as anti-racist as today's skinheads like to claim. From what I've heard and read, they did indeed socialise with black immigrant kids and listened to their music, but a lot of them went 'Paki bashing' at the same time. I understand they admired Jamaicans for being 'hard' and regarded Asians as 'soft'. There were local differences, though. Apparently, Manchester skinheads would gang up on black kids a lot whereas this was not the case in London.

It wasn't until the early 70s that some skinheads started marching with the National Front. The 60s skins were 'apolitical', i.e. some were 'apolitically' racist while others were 'apolitically' non-racist.

[StalinFanboy]

I don't think it was so much that they were apolitical, that it was them having their own personal political beliefs that they kept out of the scene.

[kharacter]

stuck
Gracias :lol:

[communard resolution]

I don't think it was so much that they were apolitical, that it was them having their own personal political beliefs that they kept out of the scene.

This implies some conscious effort not to contaminate 'the scene' with politics, but though I can't be sure, I believe the 1960s skins were much more politically 'innocent' than that. To go 'paki bashing' is a racist act and therefore political, but in the 60s, skinheads weren't doing that out of some conscious political or racial ideology. If they were doing it, they were doing it just because they were stupid and wanted to be hard.

I'm not even sure if the term 'scene' applies to the original skinhead phenomenon, which had little to do with the later international skinhead cult that had/still has its own infrastructure, music, fanzines, etc.
It was more of a neighbourhood gang thing rather than a scene. If you lived on a certain estate and wanted to be someone, you joined the local skinhead gang, wore the right clothes, and listened to rocksteady - much like you may want to listen to grime and wear a hoodie if you want to be part of your local neighbourhood gang today.

It was just a working class youth fashion that largely died out when David Bowie and glam rock became popular around 1972.

[communard resolution]

View the clip from around 2:40 to catch some original skinheads in the 1960s talking about 'jumping Pakis'.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc4otseKl_c

[Comrade Akai]

I'm not a skinhead, but only because I like my hair fairly long. I'm glad you made this thread, it's important to dissolve as many stereotypes as we can.

[Bandito]

Good posts, Nero. However, from what I've heard of, the "Paki-bashers" were a minority, compared to apolitical majority who was just "having a laugh".
This picture is also informing:
http://blogs.evergreen.edu/iansubordinate/files/2009/05/family_treelarge1.gif

[Искра]

Nice one commie :D

[communard resolution]

Good posts, Nero. However, from what I've heard of, the "Paki-bashers" were a minority, compared to apolitical majority who was just "having a laugh"

I guess it's impossible to find out whether they were the majority or minority, and every old skinhead will probably have a different tale to tell, depending on where they grew up. But as a matter of fact, 'paki bashing' was rampant in the late 60s, and skinheads were known to be its main perpetrators. Their trademark chant was "when all the lights are flashing, we're going paki bashing". No matter what first-hand account of late 60s skinheads you look at, racism against Asian people always crops up somewhere.

Here's but one account from someone who experienced skins in late 60s London:

http://www.eelpie.org/epd_19.htm

Quotes:



The skinheads espoused violence, fighting amongst themselves in their pubs, and sometimes practising particularly violent and racist attacks on coloured immigrants, which they called 'Paki bashing'.
'Gay bashing' along the Thames' towpaths, long an established haunt for London homosexuals, was another trademark activity of the skins.This is only one of many search results google brought up, I'm sure you can find many more accounts.

As you say, skinheads weren't really political in those days and were just "having a laugh", but having a laugh often meant kicking someone's head in - preferably someone who was 'different' to them.

Britain was a far more racist place back then, and it stands to reason that the skinheads, while being 'apolitical', just acted out what the mainstream of society was thinking.

Benjamin Bowling's book 'Violent Racism: Victimization, Policing, and Social Context' reports that in 1970 in the East End of London, over a three-month period 150 people were seriously injured in 'paki bashing' assaults. The East End of London was the original skinheads' main stomping ground, and in this period the first wave of the subculture was at its peak. Put one and one together.

[The Bear]

fuck trads , redskin is our thing ;)

any good redskin bands ? im not up to this OI culture much

[communard resolution]

fuck trads , redskin is our thing

Fully agree. And just like the nazi skins don't give a shit what the original skins were up to, neither should redskins dwell in 60s nostalgia. These are different times and different circumstances.

If you want to nostalgically look back in time at all, I think every skinhead worth their salt should look to the 1978/79 period when large numbers of skinheads were involved in Rock Against Racism, the two tone movement, etc.


any good redskin bands ?Most people would reccommend The Redskins, I personally like Komintern Sect, who were a French band in the early 80s. I'm sure there's people on here who are bigger experts on leftist skin music, though.

[kharacter]

So are the redskins leftist skinheads? If so, are RASH sknheads redskins?
Please excuse my ignorance

[The Bear]

So are the redskins leftist skinheads?
yes they are


If so, are RASH sknheads redskins?
Red and Anarcho SkinHeads

quite self explanatory

[kharacter]

thank you very much. I read the first post and therefore knew about RASH and what the acronym stood for, I just never heard of them being called redskins which prompted the question. But then again I'm quite new to all this...I guess it should have been obvious.

[Bandito]

Brigada Flores Magon-Partisans:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDp2J4Mxj6g

Inadaptats-Cataluyna:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ESBAs-WSZQ

The Opressed-Fuck Fascism:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFIKSVy5lvE

Freiboiter-Antifascist Oi!:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdjbgBcF96w

Loikaemie-Good Night White Pride:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9Zz-X9L00

Perkele-Working Class:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFiM6Br4Ero

Los Fastidios-Antifa Hooligans:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ4jtmHaFHA&feature=fvst


That's just for a start...

[The Bear]

thank you :D

[Sasha]

please note that the redskins where never an real skinhead band but (yet again) an SWP ploy to get workingclass pleople on their bandwagon, they werent skinheads (more mods/teddy's) and they didn't play skinhead music (but its nice music anyway)

the bands mentioned by atheis are a good start, if your not into oi/punk/hc there are some good red/skinhead ska-reagea bands as well.

any band signed by these labels are to be trusted on their politics and anti-racism:
http://www.insurgence.net/bands.htm
http://www.madbutcher.de/Bands.33.0.html
http://www.kobrecords.com/home.html

and although not explicitly skinhead/socialist a lot of the two tone bands where sound anti-racists with good leftist politics (the specials and the selecter most notably)

[communard resolution]

please note that the redskins where never an real skinhead band but (yet again) an SWP ploy to get workingclass pleople on their bandwagon

In fairness, the SWP did a great job with the Rock Against Racism campaign, highlighting and promoting the left-wing elements of the punk and skinhead subcultures. I seriously think that RAR and bands such as The Clash and The Specials (both of which participated in the campaign) had a massive influence on punks and skinheads in 1978/79 and helped determining which way part of them would evolve in the future.

Suddenly there were political, anti-racist skins, rather than just non-racist/apolitical ones. Check out footage of the Battle of Lewisham and you'll find the anti-fascists have shorter hair than the NF supporters...

[The Bear]

what swp ?

[communard resolution]

what swp ?

The Socialist Workers Party, a relatively big quasi-Trotskyist group in the UK.

[Holden Caulfield]

this is the only video I could find with the audio I wanted, let me say now that the video is manga (the name before the song must be the cartoon it is from, it certainly isnt the band), which is shit, but listen to the song over layed on it:


Blaggers ITA - House of the Fascist Scum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxx3ew-Fpg)

[griffjam]

http://blogs.evergreen.edu/iansubordinate/

[kharacter]

this is the only video I could find with the audio I wanted, let me say now that the video is manga (the name before the song must be the cartoon it is from, it certainly isnt the band), which is shit, but listen to the song over layed on it:


Blaggers ITA - House of the Fascist Scum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxx3ew-Fpg)
:laugh: it was Bleach, a poor excuse for an anime. Although you probably think they're all bad :crying: but that's okay, people have their opinions and it's nothing crucial or anything

but anyway, that was a good song. It's music worth playing, these bands deserve better production on their stuff. Like the drum recording on that was very weak I'd say (not that the drum playing was). It's like old Crass records, all you can hear is the snare.

[RotStern]

How many members here are Redskins???
I wonder...
Anyways I would recommend Angelic upstarts. Good Socialist oi! :)

[LeninKobaMao]

Does the red laces thing come from the KKK? Their leaders wear red and all that.

Yeah whats with that? Some wear black robes :lol:

[communard resolution]

please note that the redskins where never an real skinhead band but (yet again) an SWP ploy to get workingclass pleople on their bandwagon, they werent skinheads (more mods/teddy's) and they didn't play skinhead music (but its nice music anyway)

Psycho, I'm not an expert on The Redskins, but are you sure they weren't skinheads? They look like skinheads to me...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XucGFDXSKN8/RkCdJteqfJI/AAAAAAAAAEo/XGTWcIA16zk/s320/redskins0252kb.jpg

http://myspace-710.vo.llnwd.net/00540/01/79/540869710_l.jpg

[Bandito]

Oh, how i hate "cyrillic-like english" being used to make it look more "russian".
Angelic Upstarts did it too:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dFKExUzO9mI/SiTSjHr6PmI/AAAAAAAAABg/kJ3ClIVxhwE/s320/Angelic%2BUpstarts.jpg
:):)

[Bazza]

fuck trads , redskin is our thing ;)

any good redskin bands ? im not up to this OI culture much

There's some decent left wing oi bands on this comp -

http://www.cdbaby.com/thisisrash

And with a bit of luck this year we will see a CD of the Redskins released featuring unreleased tracks including some by the pre-Redskins band No Swastikas.

[The Bear]

no swastikas :D

[Искра]

There are a lot of redskins bands.
Here are my favorites:

Brigada Flores Magon (anarchist-communist Skinheads, France)
Downloads:
Brigada Flores Magon (http://www.mediafire.com/?ycvknmwcadg)
Rock Or Die (http://www.mediafire.com/?l2mwmfmhoiz)

Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uReFkRwWIRY

The Redskins (Trots, UK)
Downloads:
Neither Washington Nor Moscow (http://www.mediafire.com/?wlmyzmwlynl)

Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEZTZ3_cqHY

I wanna thanx from Bolsheviks! :star3::thumbup::star3:

[Искра]

no swastikas :D
That's first band from The Redskins crew.

[RotStern]

oh god Athiest I know what you mean. it pisses me off >.<

[RotStern]

In the meantime here is a song by the angelic upstarts
'Classic'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eGPChAU06o


And this is one of their best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqbsW5hE8v8

Im an upstart! What are you gonna do?

[communard resolution]

In the meantime here is a song by the angelic upstarts

And since we're at it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjTQwiRScVo

[Искра]

Solidarity is the only good Angelic Upstarts song. Shame that they are Leninists :)

[Bazza]

please note that the redskins where never an real skinhead band but (yet again) an SWP ploy to get workingclass pleople on their bandwagon, they werent skinheads (more mods/teddy's) and they didn't play skinhead music (but its nice music anyway)

By skinhead music I take it you mean ska?
Like this?
(ignore the Red Wedge images as the Redskins were never part of that tour).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEsSoerR1FM

[Red October]

Laces are bullshit, only douches really follow "codes" in most places. I'm not a skin, but I wear white laces in my boots and it's no problem. The only reason I don't wear reds is that too many dumbasses do associate that with being a violent nazi (earning your read laces by killing someone). I also wear red or white braces, it doesnt matter.

[bananachism]

being in the hardcore/punk/skinhead scene in britain the whole 'braces n laces' thing is practically non existent, and i dont think it really became an issue until the scene became international and influenced by american gang culture

also i recommend the movie skinhead attitude to anyone who hasn't seen it and wants to know more about the disastrous effect neo nazis have had on the skinhead scene, unfortunately there aren't any films i can think of where traditional british skins of the 60s or modern antifa/rash skins are featured, and there probably won't be, though theres a new american film called skinhead cross culture which might

and the following left ska/oi/punk bands are worth listening to: stage bottles, redska, klasse kriminal, the restarts, and classics like redskins and blaggers i.t.a

[Fawkes]

Laces/braces is fucking stupid, I wear red, white, and black braces, though my laces are just black, I just happen to like the colors. I'm actually not a skin, I'm a punk, but whatever. The only area I've really heard of the laces/braces thing carrying any significance is in California. I'm really not a huge fan of RASH either. I'm a punk and I'm an anarchist, but I'm not an anarcho-punk. The scene's about the music and just having a good time. As long as there isn't any racism or any kind of hatred like that, I'm cool with it, I fucking hate it when scenes get defined by politics. Redskins are awesome by the way and are definitely skinheads.

[KarlMarx1989]

Soo...Is this forum pro or anti Nazi?

[The Bear]

man , read the posts :)

we got our own skins

[Holden Caulfield]

Soo...Is this forum pro or anti Nazi?

read the thread comrade, you might learn alot, Skinhead doesn't begin or end with American History X

[KarlMarx1989]

Yes, I read the first post and I have learned a lot. Thanks.

[Tjis]

So what do the nazi skins think of fence sitters?

[Psych0]

So what do the nazi skins think of fence sitters?
I don't know how the nazis, but we (redskins) hate them:sneaky:

[kharacter]

I don't know how the nazis, but we (redskins) hate them:sneaky:
I'd agree with your sentiment, apathy is the maximation of ugliness.

I invite you to join this group:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=228

RASH members are gladly welcomed, of course.

[Psych0]

kharacter, joined. now have eight in the group:)

[kharacter]

Thanks for that. Pleased to meet you

[Azraelscross]

good cross-section on types of skins.

also i feel the need to point out a newer, lesser known, smaller B&H movement that's non-racist and doesn't have much to do at all with boneheads. I first discovered it on a, now defunct, forum called The Heathen Front a few years ago. It just teaches pride in who you are and where your roots lie. weather you be a Celt, Norse, a Gael or w/eJust be proud of who you are and your ancestors. there were a couple NF guys on there but they got run off the board for being a bunch of racist pricks:lol:. it mainly catered to those of European descent but nothing racial was ever brought up in negative ways

[A.R.Amistad]

Is RASH defunct in the United States? I haven't been able to find any evidence of their existence anymore here in the US. And what about internationally, like Europe or Asia? It seems that they have diminished in influence significantly.

[ls]

I guess it's impossible to find out whether they were the majority or minority, and every old skinhead will probably have a different tale to tell

Indeed, indeed.


depending on where they grew up.

That is just one factor, the others include what time period, what specific subculture of punk they associate with and their own racial group in some cases too no doubt.

Now, I don't think all the characterisations made about any one group in this thread are entirely fair. My Dad's experiences indicate to me that you can find about half of every subculture are racist fucking wankers, or just ignorant in a racist way, one such example of this, was an account he told me of a guy who loved The Who around the mid-70s, telling him when he was a punk that "punks hate pakis, we don't hate pakis though, we accept all ethnics". I've also been told about massive fights between greasers of many different races against bunches of what seemed like apolitical and mixed racist skinheads, right smack bang in the middle of south-east london. It's funny because you can see massive confrontations of anarcho-skins against racist skinheads in the centre of Woolwich as recently as 2002. :p

So it's not really fair to characterise any subculture as "all" or perhaps even "mostly" like this or that, one would hope that the thread makes at least that much clear.

Uniting working-class people across subcultures in all countries is especially important, it is something we definitely must work at imo.

[ajs]

old post, but good post.

[Patchd]

A very easy way to distinguish nazi skins is check thier boot laces. White laces are generally rookie types but are still dangerous, white obviously standing for thier white-power bullshit. Red laces are the dangerous types, this is a kind of award given by the group leader after the nazi-skin has performed a act (useually assaulting enemies).
No, laces can be a very shit way of telling someone's politics actually. Mainly because it differs so much from place to place, group to group and type of skin.

I've known red laces to mean either you're a Communist, or that you've shed blood for a cause, or within the LGBT community, red laces can signify that you're into fisting (no, true shit). In addition, white has also been known to mean "White power", but then I see people wearing white laces all the time, including a mixed race girl I saw who was on the counter protest against the fascists in Manchester recently, they just look fucking nice, so a lot of people wear them.

Yellow laces have been known to mean Anarchist, but then black laces have also, yellow laces can also mean that you're into scat/piss (again for the sexual explorers out there), so my point is simply that you can't look at someone's laces and get a clear cut picture of what type of skin they are. If they're fash, they tend to have more distinguishable features, like Iron Crosses on their shirts, tattoos and so forth.

[communard resolution]

No, laces can be a very shit way of telling someone's politics actually. Mainly because it differs so much from place to place, group to group and type of skin.

I've known red laces to mean either "Communist", that you've shed blood for a cause, or within the LGBT community, red laces can signify that you're into fisting (no, true shit). In addition, white has also been known to mean "White power", but then I see people wearing white laces all the time, including a mixed race girl I saw who was on the counter protest against the fascists in Manchester recently, they just look fucking nice, so a lot of people wear them.

Yellow laces have been known to mean Anarchist, but then black laces have also, yellow laces can also mean that you're into scat/piss (again for the sexual explorers out there), so my point is simply that you can't look at someone's laces and get a clear cut picture of what type of skin they are. If they're fash, they tend to have more distinguishable features, like Iron Crosses on their shirts, tattoos and so forth.

I generally agree, though I've never seen iron crosses being worn by white power skinheads. Iron crosses are actually more popular with bikers, punks, and the hardcore, metal and garage rock music subcultures. The iron cross is not a fascist symbol, by the way - it's just a German military symbol that's been used in youth culture in the same way mods used the British airforce target.

White power skins tend to sport the celtic cross.

[h0m0revolutionary]

you're into fisting (no, true shit).

Choice of words fail :cool:

[Patchd]

I generally agree, though I've never seen iron crosses being worn by white power skinheads. Iron crosses are actually more popular with bikers, punks, and the hardcore, metal and garage rock music subcultures. The iron cross is not a fascist symbol, by the way - it's just a German military symbol that's been used in youth culture in the same way mods used the British airforce target.

White power skins tend to sport the celtic cross.
That's true, also because it's more covert so the only people who realise it's significance are those the person wearing the Celtic cross probably wants to let them know they're a fascist anyway. But I've encountered a fascist wearing an Iron Cross shirt before, despite it being a mere German militaristic symbol (but then that could be the explanation as to why some fascists feel comfortable wearing it), he also had Totenkopf tattoos and was on the London underground, I was about 16 then.


Choice of words fail :cool:
lulz, fisting fail is fail. :p

[Holden Caulfield]

In my experience Iron Crosses are something that boneheads to wear, but its not like a celtic cross seeing somebody wear one doesnt mean you have defo seen a nazi, same as other things like union jacks, white laces, certain tattoos etc

[Pogue]

i have a celtic cross (on a chain), i've never sene it as clearly enough being solely for nazis for it to be a negative

[Искра]

i have a celtic cross (on a chain), i've never sene it as clearly enough being solely for nazis for it to be a negative
and what is positive side of it?

[Sasha]

if you ever come to amsterdam dont wear it, here its defintly an fascist symbol and antifascist here have an habbit to ask questions only after they kicked you all over the tarmac.

[Pogue]

Well obviously having bought it in Ireland its more of a national symbol than anything. You lot would hate it in Dublin :lol:

[Sasha]

nah in dublin it would be fine and i guess you would be save if it was an oldschool style one on a celtic or dropkick murphys shirt, but if you look a bit skinhead, celticcrosses as jewelry is a big nono over here.

[Sasha]

same goes with the formentioned iron crosses btw, as an psycho or motorcyclew dude you can wear them no problem, as an skinhead or gabber not so much.

its al about context people, an hindu with an swastika would also be 100% safe here, an skinhead or metalhead better has good healh insurance

[communard resolution]

I think the confusion is over what type of celtic cross.

These ones are fine:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BVv3SB9efVg/R_ZdXvfwRyI/AAAAAAAAEUo/e7PykjCxrW0/s400/1.jpg

But if you're wearing the stylised celtic cross as seen below, you're wearing a neo-fascist/white nationalist symbol:

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/Images/celtic-cross.jpg

[Pogue]

^ well obviously, i dunno if psycho is saying his comrades would make such a distinction.

the association isn't strong here. I am one of few people who knows the celtic cross is popular with fascists. i never had any issues with wearing one.

[Искра]

Comrade form MASA has that Black Sabbath T-Shirt :D

[ls]

its al about context people, an hindu with an swastika would also be 100% safe here, an skinhead or metalhead better has good healh insurance

Never seen a hindu wearing a swastika, even then it's reversed and has dots inbetween each quadrant. :p I think some of the more radical hindu fundamentalist groups in India use it as a ethnoreligious/nationalist symbol however at times (possibly reversed too).

[bananachism]

"THIS IS R.A.S.H. UK & IRELAND (part 1)"
Brand new R.A.S.H. (Red & anarchist skinheads) compilation out now!

Featuring 24 tracks and comes with an 8 page booklet.



Track listing:
1. Blaggers ITA - 'ITS UP TO YOU'
2. Angelic Upstarts - 'ANTI-NAZI'
3. The Oppressed - 'THE A.F.A. SONG'
4. Hardskin - 'OI NOT JOBS'
5. Red London - 'FRONTLINE SOLDIER'
6. The Splitters - 'ROCK OR RIOT'
7. Suspicious Stains - 'RAPIST'
8. Politicise - 'ERIK'
9. United Front - 'YOUNG REBELS'
10. Scunnard - 'LAME'
11. Attila The Stockbroker - 'THE IRON MAN OF RAP'
12. Running Riot - 'JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER'
13. The Che Men - 'KEEP ON KEEPIN' ON'
14. Distortion - 'WAR SONG'
15. Dubclash - 'DUBBING THE POWER'
16. Ex-Cathedra - 'RWANDA PART 1'
17. Attila The Stockbroker's Barnstormer - 'SCUMBALL PINOCHET'
18. Red Alert - 'MILLION DOLLAR PUNX'
19. Oi Polloi - 'UNITE AND WIN'
20. The Selecter - 'KEEPING THE TREES CLEAN'
21. Blaggers I.T.A. - 'HOUSE OF THE FASCIST SCUM'
22. Smeggy Angus - 'THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED!'
23. Ex-Cathedra - 'RWANDA PART 2'
24. Blaggers I.T.A. - 'ITS UP TO YOU' (reprise)







get it.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

"THIS IS R.A.S.H. UK & IRELAND (part 1)"
Brand new R.A.S.H. (Red & anarchist skinheads) compilation out now!

Featuring 24 tracks and comes with an 8 page booklet.



Track listing:
4. Hardskin - 'OI NOT JOBS'

As ever from Hard Skin, an inspired title.

[Sasha]

:confused: at the title from smeggy agnus...
curious at the lyrics....

[Pogue]

:confused: at the title from smeggy agnus...
curious at the lyrics....

Its pretty clearly ironic, otherwise it wouldn't be on that CD.

Listen to it, its quite funny.

[Sasha]

i asummed that, i´m just currious at how they pulled it off...

[Pogue]

By making a clearly hypocritical title, so the content of the 'song' (its not actually a song, its a comedic monologue) would deal with that proposition.

The first line of the monologue is "The holocaust didn't happen. Yeh, right Mr Irving" or something similar.

[bananachism]

haha im hoping that smeggy agnus song is taking the piss out of holocaust deniers, did anybody see the oppressed reunion show in cardiff a couple weeks back?

a lot of travelling that was for me and a long and sometimes boring wait between bands till the oppressed finally played but i thought it was bloody worth it

ooh also rebellion fest next august, blaggers and hard skin!!! anyone?

OH and red alert, fiddlers elbow london 12 december?

[Pogue]

haha im hoping that smeggy agnus song is taking the piss out of holocaust deniers, did anybody see the oppressed reunion show in cardiff a couple weeks back?

a lot of travelling that was for me and a long and sometimes boring wait between bands till the oppressed finally played but i thought it was bloody worth it

ooh also rebellion fest next august, blaggers and hard skin!!! anyone?

OH and red alert, fiddlers elbow london 12 december?

blaggers and los fastidios, i am so there.

[bananachism]

shit yea los fastidios were brilliant this year, did you go? the beat were amazing too, they're touring this demember, where you from pogue?

[nuisance]

Los Fastidios are a fuck load better live, class act.

[POUM]

I'm confused. Aren't Hard Skin apolitical? They authorized the use of their song on a RASH compilation?

[jaffe]

well some of them used to play in a crust band (thatcher on acid i believe) but does that really matter? cause Hard Skin is currently the worlds best oi band and still fighting thatcher.

[Sasha]

I'm confused. Aren't Hard Skin apolitical? They authorized the use of their song on a RASH compilation?



shhst, dont tell anyone but hardskin is an joke started by an bunch of punks that became bald... declaring themselfs a-political is part of the act.

[Sasha]

ever heard about jewdriver? they are awsome:
http://www.kink-records.de/platten/jewdriver_jesus_skins_split_cd.jpghttp://www.interpunk.com/itemimages2/66463.jpghttp://www.zeek.net/i/jewdriver.jpg

and the jesusskins are prety good too:
http://shopbase.finetunes.net/shopserver/BinaryCacheServlet?albumid=1158670874678&datatype=fc300

:laugh:

[Искра]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThNJKuVGDU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tv-0cQbFQ

[Bandito]

As for Hard Skin:
If you wanna please me
Go make my tea

Hardly a Woman's Struggles article,eh?

[jaffe]

ever heard about jewdriver? they are awsome:
http://www.kink-records.de/platten/jewdriver_jesus_skins_split_cd.jpghttp://www.interpunk.com/itemimages2/66463.jpghttp://www.zeek.net/i/jewdriver.jpg

:laugh:
There used to be a parody B&H israel website as well. Later it turned out there actually was a real B&H Israel :blushing:

[Mälli]

http://www.claytoncubitt.com/galleries/work/lagos_calling/lagos_calling02.jpg

This is hot.

[Mälli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dptw8L_N_3o

Allways antifascist!

[redSHARP]

RASH UNITED!! i havent been on revleft in 3 months but this is an awesome thread!!

[Number 16 Bus Shelter]

Me.
Hahaha.

Me too.:laugh:

[Patchd]

Los Fastidios are a fuck load better live, class act.
nevcer seen em live but they sound shit not live. fucking shitty oh yeah lets try abe so fucking hard sounding, fuck it, reggae ska trad skins all the fucking way. sorry might be a bit incoherent, am somewat fucked

[Bandito]

Taste in music is surely not debatable, so I won't try to prove you wrong.
Los Fastidios is one of the best bands in Europe at the moment, plus I know the guys personally and they are all good people.
Live or not live.

[RotStern]

-

[RotStern]

LOL Boots and bagels xD
Sometimes anti-social but always anti-fascist!

[Rory]

SKINHEAD REVOLT! :thumbup1:

[Rory]

I got accused of being a Nazi for the first time last week. Bad times... But the guy was set right.

[Patchd]

I got accused of being a Nazi for the first time last week. Bad times... But the guy was set right.
Bad times, what happened?

[Holden Caulfield]

Bad times, what happened?

I got called a nazi on that day I came to Sheff and saw you.
It hardly heart breaking, there heart is in the right place.

Once I was in a Paris underground station and some RASH skin was at the otherside staring me out thinking I was fash, I couldn't have given a fuck. His heart was in the right place, and if he had came to start summit he would quicly realise I wasn't fash from the badges I had on the the stickers I had on me.

I wish he had come round the platform, we could have had a little merch swap haha

[Bandito]

I got beaten up by a Romani group few years ago because they thought I was a bonehead.
Never got mad about it, although I ended up in a hospital.

[Patchd]

I got called a nazi on that day I came to Sheff and saw you.
It hardly heart breaking, there heart is in the right place.
Yeah, I remember you saying that you got hassle in Sheff for wearing boots and braces but not in Newcastle, but I've never had any trouble for what I wore, although I do get funny looks ... and you're right, it's quite enlightening when people actually stand up to people they think are fash, but it'll be better if they only got it right.


I wish he had come round the platform, we could have had a little merch swap hahaLol, similar story, but on the tube in London with some French tourists sitting opposite me staring at me, one was in that Antifascist shirt (that Londsdale style one they always sell at the bookfair), and the other 2 or 3 were punks or skins so I just started talking to them and was pretty cool about it hahaha.

[Pogue]

I got beaten up by a Romani group few years ago because they thought I was a bonehead.
Never got mad about it, although I ended up in a hospital.

That would frustrate me more than anger me. But its never been a problem for me.

When I wore skin style, I never got any comments, just a few mutterings. I never really had to clear it up cos no one ever really asked.

Holden why didn't you talk to the RASH skin?

[nuisance]

It seems like loadsa revlefters have dressed skinish at some point haha.

[Pogue]

It seems like loadsa revlefters have dressed skinish at some point haha.

yeh they have i think, it still sort of appeals to me, but i dont go the whole hog, i guess i'm more of a casual :lol:

i dont rly like how u stand out as a skin.

[nuisance]

yeh they have i think, it still sort of appeals to me, but i dont go the whole hog, i guess i'm more of a casual :lol:

i dont rly like how u stand out as a skin.
Aye, you woulda loved my get up for work today ;)
But yeah, hassle for clothes gets annoying.

[Pogue]

Aye, you woulda loved my get up for work today ;)

i bet i would have :lol:

[Holden Caulfield]

Holden why didn't you talk to the RASH skin?
I was at the opposite side of a metro station waiting for a train, I don't speak French and I don't particularly like the French as a rule :laugh:.
Mainly the first two tho, I would have loved to passed on some Antifa England stickers to our european comrades.

I agree with what Pogue said, I don't dress like a skinhead per se, boots, polo shirts, harrington, jeans etc. I probs look more 'casual' most days, especially if I can't be arsed to wear my boots

[Ravachol]

yeh they have i think, it still sort of appeals to me, but i dont go the whole hog, i guess i'm more of a casual :lol:

i dont rly like how u stand out as a skin.

Nah it can happen with any look, even the one's traditionally though of as 'left-wing'. I got mistaken for an 'Autonomous Nationalist' because of my outfit about a year ago by fellow antifascists. They realized we were on the same side because of the actual text on my buttons though :laugh:

[Daz]

When I wore skin style, I never got any comments, just a few mutterings.
And that is all that skinhead is really, a style.

I have never known a skinhead who fit perfectly into any of of those boxes called Trad or Bonehead.

[nuisance]

And that is all that skinhead is really, a style.

I have never known a skinhead who fit perfectly into any of of those boxes called Trad or Bonehead.
You don't actually know anything about the subculture then, do you?

[Daz]

You don't actually know anything about the subculture then, do you?
Haha...nah, only been around it for 15 yrs and claimed for 10.

Never met a "trad" who did not listen to punk though and I've never met a "bonehead" who fit the knuckle dragging neanderthal stereotype.

Yeah, I know folks who wear the gear and are into radical politics but I get a laugh out of people who try to read too much into being a skinhead.

The only real difference is between the racist and the non, and even they tend to mix at times.

[nuisance]

Haha...nah, only been around it for 15 yrs and claimed for 10.

Never met a "trad" who did not listen to punk though and I've never met a "bonehead" who fit the knuckle dragging neanderthal stereotype.

Yeah, I know folks who wear the gear and are into radical politics but I get a laugh out of people who try to read too much into being a skinhead.

The only real difference is between the racist and the non, and even they tend to mix at times.
I wouldn't brag about being around the scene for that long if you can't differentiate between simple differences and alternating strands in it- it's all about prefenece and doesn't mean that these skins will only hang around with skins of their kin, afterall they're all skinheads at the end of the day.
Being a trad don't mean you can't listen to punk...just like a street punk don't have to listen to just street punk, and so on. It's a matter of style and prefered music genres (stereotypically trad- roots reggae, first wave ska, soul. Bonehead- white noise, oi!. Rash/Sharp- ska, oi!, punk), aswell as politics for political subgroupings in subcultures- boneheads, sharps and rash.
You're just taking a very elitist view of subcultures, which doesn't necessarily exist outside of those who knowingly conform to a stereotype- whether they admit so or not.

[Red Saxon]

I saw a few skinheads in Paris chasing after Arabs who were trying to sell stuff on the street corners.

Morons.

[Daz]

I wouldn't brag about being around the scene for that long if you can't differentiate between simple differences and alternating strands in it- it's all about prefenece and doesn't mean that these skins will only hang around with skins of their kin, afterall they're all skinheads at the end of the day.
Being a trad don't mean you can't listen to punk...just like a street punk don't have to listen to just street punk, and so on. It's a matter of style and prefered music genres (stereotypically trad- roots reggae, first wave ska, soul. Bonehead- white noise, oi!. Rash/Sharp- ska, oi!, punk), aswell as politics for political subgroupings in subcultures- boneheads, sharps and rash.
You're just taking a very elitist view of subcultures, which doesn't necessarily exist outside of those who knowingly conform to a stereotype- whether they admit so or not.
Even skinheads cannot agree on what it is all about. I say it is simply a style but it does take a certain kind of person who's tough enough and proud enough to adopt the look.

Not many skins are very coherent or consistent when they get into politics and it is a well known fact that many antis were once wp and vice versa. Skinhead and politics do not mix well.

And also the term bonehead originally meant someone who shaved all their hair off with a razor, it had nothing to do with being into far right politics.

[Bandito]

I saw a few skinheads in Paris chasing after Arabs who were trying to sell stuff on the street corners.

Morons.

Read the beginning of the thread.
It wasn't skinheads you saw, and if you can repeat that after reading the whole thread, than the only moron would be you. Sorry to inform you.

About the "skinnish" style, I abandoned the shaved head concept years ago, but I still have some boots and lonsdale jackets in my wardrobe. Like Pogue, I look more casual now, as my user title says. ;)

[Holden Caulfield]

Long hair (not to mention paying for hair cuts) is counter revolutionary.

[Bandito]

My hair is not long and I do not pay for haircuts (mainly because my gf is a hair dresser), but in a true skinhead manner, i have to say screw you, Holden, I intend to brag with my hair while I can.
And I encourage others to do so.
You don't plan on being bald for the rest of your life. It may become unwilling later. ;)

[Rory]

Keep it number 1/2 as far as I'm concerned. Long enough to show you're not bald, short enough to be skin.

[Chambered Word]

Yeah, screw you Holden, I like my hair. :)

I usually wear camo fatigue pants and steel-toe boots with a black shirt, some people seem to think I'm a Nazi.

I say if you're going to look like a skin it's probably a good idea to wear a shirt with something leftwing on it so nobody mistakes you for a fascist scumsucker.

[Bandito]

Yeah, screw you Holden, I like my hair. :)

I usually wear camo fatigue pants and steel-toe boots with a black shirt, some people seem to think I'm a Nazi.

I say if you're going to look like a skin it's probably a good idea to wear a shirt with something leftwing on it so nobody mistakes you for a fascist scumsucker.

Yeah, but wearing "political clothes" may be a bit too adolescent.

[Ravachol]

Yeah, screw you Holden, I like my hair. :)

I usually wear camo fatigue pants and steel-toe boots with a black shirt, some people seem to think I'm a Nazi.

I say if you're going to look like a skin it's probably a good idea to wear a shirt with something leftwing on it so nobody mistakes you for a fascist scumsucker.

Depends, in some places even that isn't a sure telltale sign. Nazbol segments of the 'Autonomous Nationalist' scene in Germany have been spotted wearing Che T-shirts, CCCP hoodies and fucking hell, even EZLN clothing. Yes, it's inconsistent and plain stupid, but just take a look at this demonstration of the fascist 'National Socialist Action' (which is ideologically strasserist with some Nazbol members) in the Netherlands some time ago:

http://www.ravagedigitaal.org/2008/88/1.jpg

Yes, it says 'Antifascist Action'. Yes those flags have the AFA logo on them albeit with 'National Socialist Action' text instead of Antifascist Action. They call themselves Antifascists because they, in their simplistic worldview, consider fascism to be 'opression' and of course they are 'against opression' :rolleyes: Their main reason, as stated by various members of the NSA, however, is to irritate the left and sow confusion. That and the fact that the all-black, sunglasses & combat cap outfit looks pretty cool. Yeah, truly intelligent revolutionaries :rolleyes:

["Red Scum"]

Potentially dangerous, really don't like that sound of that. :confused:

[Ravachol]

Potentially dangerous, really don't like that sound of that. :confused:

Nah, they have far less potential than I initially thought when they were created. They had some real growth about a year and a half ago but for several reasons (in-fighting, ideological strife and mainly personal conflicts) they imploded and lost a lot of their members. The entire 'autonome nationalisten' fad seems to be a bit over in the Netherlands, at least for now. It doesn't really fit with the Dutch nazi movement either, which is traditionally dominated by 'beer, tits & sieg heil' type boneheads with little to no socio-economical position. The groups with a socio-economic position tend to be more traditionally fascist, conservative, highly corporatist and oriented towards Flanders.
Apart from that the Netherlands isn't fertile ground for insurrectionary far-right groups (nor for insurrectionary far-left groups for that matter). The political mainstream is pretty anti-immigrant and national-conservative far-right politicians like Geert Wilders tend to be far more popular than any kind of classical antisemitic or strasserist far-right group.
We shouldn't underestimate their potential for violence though, they've proven they're pretty capable of that (even moreso than the dutch C18 section which focusses mainly on in-fighting :rolleyes:).

As for Germany, that's a completely different cup of tea. They're pretty big there and Germany is (historically as well) pretty fertile ground for strasserist fascism, especially amongst disenchanted east-german youth.

["Red Scum"]

I don't mean to sound sexist here... but look how fucking ugly the women in that picture are :p Left wing gets the hotties methinks :star:

[Ravachol]

I don't mean to sound sexist here... but look how fucking ugly the women in that picture are :p Left wing gets the hotties methinks :star:

The guys aren't "all that" either :rolleyes:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~afa/alert/2_12/plaatjes/oss3.jpg

["Red Scum"]

The guys aren't "all that" either :rolleyes:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~afa/alert/2_12/plaatjes/oss3.jpg

Master race indeed :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Chambered Word]

Looks like that parade has really been hit with an ugly stick. Twice.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Interesting article about skins from 1980 here (http://invereskstreet.blogspot.com/2009/09/skinheads-cult-of-trouble-by-ian-walker.html).

[No pasarán]

Personely I found that article to mostly be pretty condesending.

[Gabbanoche]

any good redskin bands ? im not up to this OI culture much

The Oppressed. but they are a S.H.A.R.P but its still anti-facsist music
and you have Oi Polloi i dont know what genre thay are bur they are anti fascist

[Old Guardian]

I think Macedonia is the only country in Europe where redskins outnumber boneheads.:)

[IslamicMarxist]

Skinheads are all jokes. They despise all races, Blacks, Latinos, Semites(Arabs, Jews, other Semitic groups), Asians, and all immigrants. They don't realize, that Europe, America, most people are from foreign lands. Most of the white people are. But we must not confuse equal rights with special rights. If we are truly non racists, we must not recognize race at all.

[Steve_j]

Skinheads are all jokes. They despise all races, Blacks, Latinos, Semites(Arabs, Jews, other Semitic groups), Asians, and all immigrants...... blah blah blah

Yes and all muslims want to blow themselves up.
Read the thread next time.

[Psych0]

Skinheads are all jokes. They despise all races, Blacks, Latinos, Semites(Arabs, Jews, other Semitic groups), Asians, and all immigrants.
you talk about boneheads. don't call them skinheads!:mad:

[this is an invasion]

Skinheads are all jokes. They despise all races, Blacks, Latinos, Semites(Arabs, Jews, other Semitic groups), Asians, and all immigrants. They don't realize, that Europe, America, most people are from foreign lands. Most of the white people are. But we must not confuse equal rights with special rights. If we are truly non racists, we must not recognize race at all.

Your mom's a joke.



Also, it's nice of you to generalize white people, and then go on to say that we must no recognize race at all.:thumbup1:

Seriously, read about skinhead culture. It was one of the most proletarian subcultures.

[black magick hustla]

skinhead culture was a heap of dung. idk, i recognize it wasnt necessarily racist but it tailed the worst aspects of "working class" culture, like machismo, violence, and excessive drinking

[black magick hustla]

then again i love hardcore so who i am to criticize

[this is an invasion]

then again i love hardcore so who i am to criticize

hardcore is my fuckin jam

[Wolf Larson]

Spirit of 69: A Skinhead Bible

[Wolf Larson]

skinhead culture was a heap of dung. idk, i recognize it wasnt necessarily racist but it tailed the worst aspects of "working class" culture, like machismo, violence, and excessive drinking

Jesus Christ. is that you? PC (politically correct) jesus? Marx drank like a fish. Lennin was an advocate of violence and "working class culture" is a bi product of subjugation which entails exploitation, depression, poverty and all manner of attack from various angles. Who wouldn't drink fight and fuck as a working class youth?

I suspect a tad of bourgeois snobbery in your post.

[black magick hustla]

Jesus Christ. is that you? PC (politically correct) jesus? Marx drank like a fish. Lennin was an advocate of violence and "working class culture" is a bi product of subjugation which entails exploitation, depression, poverty and all manner of attack from various angles. Who wouldn't drink fight and fuck as a working class youth?

I suspect a tad of bourgeois snobbery in your post.

yea man lets kick some pakis heads

[black magick hustla]

subcultures are stupid anyway

[Wolf Larson]

yea man lets kick some pakis heads

Now that was just lame. I swear to god the moderating staff on here makes me want to vomit.

You should actually understand the 'sub culture' you're trying to frame as a violent racist white people's club.

What is acceptable to you? Homogenized capitalist cookie cutter 1950's lifestyles? It was Sartre who said there is no differnce between sitting in a dark room drunk and alone or leading the people to glory- what he meant was reality is subjective and life is absurd and void of any meaning outside of the meaning we choose to give it. If people want to have mowhawks and facial tattoos by golly good for them. I'll admit at times i've thought we should all just wear orange robes like monks but....it's more so the capitalist strange world of fashion I was disgusted with. Skinhead culture has always been working class anyway....more people would know that if they didnt have a propagandized world view such as yourself :)

Subcultures, especially ones which stand in opposition to the groupthink of corporate materialism be it punk or what have you aren't useless. In fact (unfortunately) punk is what has largely kept the anarchist/communist movement appealing to the youth in America. At least in the Bay Area.

Individualism within socialism is important as is culture. None of us should be advocating a homogenized monoculture where everyone wheres blue coveralls. Especially those of us with quote from Orwell on our profiles. Life would be a drag.

[black magick hustla]

Now that was just lame. I swear to god the moderating staff on here makes me want to vomit.

You should actually understand the 'sub culture' you're trying to frame as a violent racist white people's club.

idk, i agree it was not explicitly "white nationalist" but there where always some out of the mill racist sentiments. what did you want me to say? you thought i was pc and bourgeois just for pointing at the fact that there was a lot of machismo and general chauvinism in the skinhead movement.




What is acceptable to you? Homogenized capitalist cookie cutter 1950's lifestyles?
of course not. trust me i am as un 1950s as they come



If people want to have mowhawks and facial tattoos by golly good for them.


good for them



I'll admit at times i've thought we should all just wear orange robes like monks but....it's more so the capitalist strange world of fashion I was disgusted with.

yes. and the skinhead "fashion" was and still is a part of this "capitalist world of fashion".



Skinhead culture has always been working class anyway....more people would know that if they didnt have a propagandized world view such as yourself

i think i have an ok idea of what skinhead culture was and is. certainly there was a huge chauvinistic streak in it in the name of glorifying "working class" culture.




Subcultures, especially ones which stand in opposition to the groupthink of corporate materialism be it punk or what have you aren't useless. In fact (unfortunately) punk is what has largely kept the anarchist/communist movement appealing to the youth in America. At least in the Bay Area.

lol subcultures are the definition of groupthink. have you ever been to a punk show





Individualism within socialism is important as is culture. None of us should be advocating a homogenized monoculture where everyone wheres blue coveralls. Especially those of us with quote from Orwell on our profiles. Life would be a drag.

nobody is advocating that. but certainly the world of sbucultures today does not really offer that much

[Wolf Larson]

idk, i agree it was not explicitly "white nationalist" but there where always some out of the mill racist sentiments. what did you want me to say? you thought i was pc and bourgeois just for pointing at the fact that there was a lot of machismo and general chauvinism in the skinhead movement.



of course not. trust me i am as un 1950s as they come




good for them












nobody is advocating that. but certainly the world of sbucultures today does not really offer that much



"i think i have an ok idea of what skinhead culture was and is. certainly there was a huge chauvinistic streak in it in the name of glorifying "working class" culture."

^^^ yep, some non racist traditional skins can be guilty as charged but there's also a large socialist/politically involved skin head 'sub culture'.

"yes. and the skinhead "fashion" was and still is a part of this "capitalist world of fashion".

^^^ So is everything we buy , but, the boots were worn till they fell off and levis aren't exactly costing as much as DKNY.

"
lol subcultures are the definition of groupthink. have you ever been to a punk show"

^^^ ya it's weird....there's no escape which is why I said I contemplated orange robes for all at one time. There's a strange line between individualism and groupthink....especially in capitalist culture where capitalists decide what to make for us. Counter cultures can indeed be, as is the case with punk, predictable. I learned that when I met the same group of people (but different) in 20 various cities across the us. Life is absurd.

[redSHARP]

holy crap, all i wanted to do was to have a good time in a style i liked!

[Kearney]

Has anyone on here seen This is England. Great wee flick about the skin head scene. What do you guys think of it?

[Anarchist Skinhead]

It shows quite well when it all went wrong in the subculture... and that not all skinheads are fucking nazis.

[Buitraker]

Has anyone on here seen This is England. Great wee flick about the skin head scene. What do you guys think of it?

Its the best film about Skinhead.

[4 Leaf Clover]

That would frustrate me more than anger me. But its never been a problem for me.

When I wore skin style, I never got any comments, just a few mutterings. I never really had to clear it up cos no one ever really asked.

Holden why didn't you talk to the RASH skin?

thats why i stuffed a soviet union patch on my jacket , and when i get shitty looks , i just make my arm "visible" enough

[Thirsty Crow]

thats why i stuffed a soviet union patch on my jacket , and when i get shitty looks , i just make my arm "visible" enough

I wouldn't be surprised if you got something else than weird looks from passers by, although I am not familiar with the situation in Montenegro, regarding neo-fascist skinheads.

[4 Leaf Clover]

There are no active right wing organizations in Montenegro. There is some clero-nazi Serbian nationalist band in Niksic , which is 4 guys that are connected to their brotherly nazi scum in Serbia. They are some bone-head lookalike wannabe. Didn't heard of any else

[Winterhammer]

Comrades ,here's the list of a Redskinhead compilation called "The RASH United Army"

GET IT!

Volume 1

-Desperta Ferro - Nomes Hi Ha un Cami
-Nucleo Terco - La Ley del Combate
-The Redskins - Reds Strike the Blues
-Brigada Flores Magon - RASH
-Antiruggine - 100% RASH United
-Banda Bassotti - Giunti Tubi Palanche Ska
-Mossin Nagant - RASH
-Opcio K-95 - Skinhead Only Red
-Ya Basta! - Lucha y Fiesta
-Guardia Negra - Redskins!
-Alerta Guerrilla - Pelones
-Guardia Bermellon - Redskins
-Sistema Sonoro Skartel - Redskin Reggae Dub
-Avalots - Red Skins
-Kommintern 43 - RASH United
-Brigada Oi! - RASH NC

-----------------------------------------

Volume 2

-Skuadron 48 - PRAB
-The Redskins - Young & Proud
-Red Banner - Cultura del Carrer
-Inadaptats - Red Skins
-Direttiva 16- RASH
-Kortatu - Etxerat!
-Bolchoi - Violence Rouge et Colere Noire
-Full Time Skins - Redskins
-Kommintern 43 - Espiritu Redskin
-Camarada Kalashnikov - Un Sol Front
-Oi! Se Arma - RASH Canarias
-Redweiller - Red Skinheads
-Vozintierra - Rojos y Anarquistas
-Brigada Oi! - Orgullo Redskin
-Noise & Oi! - RASH


there's countless more bands of street punk/ oi /ska related to the left in all forms aswell of other bands that do not claim relation to the left ideologies but lyrics are pro working class,anti capitalist,etc,other important names are Erode,Hors Controle,Piolet,Comrade,Crit de Lluita,Estandarte Oi!,Golpe a Golpe,Outubro,Guerrilla Oi!,Ignotus,Jeunesse Apatride,Kaos Urbano,Katyusha,Kommintern,Los Fastidios,Skalariak,MENCER VERMELLO (awesome band),Non Servium,Oi! The Arrase,Ofensiva AK 47,Pilseners,Proletarios Oi!,Rabia Proletaria,Red Alert,Those Unknown,Redkick,RPG -7,Social Combat,Stage Bottles,Etc,Etc most of them are Italian,French,Spanish , the ones i'm more related to. but there should be lots more of them around europe.

Cheers ;)

[redSHARP]

WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET THIS!?!!:cool::cool::cool:

[The Douche]

Zero bands from the US, where RASH was started, somebody is slackin...

[Winterhammer]

WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET THIS!?!!:cool::cool::cool:


you should be able to download it for free using Soulseek,one of the best downloading clients..or just google it you might find it there

great scene in russia o.o didn't know about that, should be hard tho since 50% of the worlds neo nazis lives there,keep the fight russian comrades! (///)

search on youtube for: Red and anarhist skinhead Russia

[Niall]

really enjoying this thread. I used to have a skinhead, thought it was just a haircut to be honest, though I did get some funny looks. Have noticed some boneheads in the past looking back.
Can anyone recommend any good skinhead music? Not of the skrewdriver variety

[Sasha]

Angelic upstarts, blaggers ita, los fastidios, sham 69, cocksparrer, red alert, the oppressed, red london, the business, hardskin, (early) OI polloi, the prowlers, the adicts, reazione, klasse kriminale, Aggrolites, Mr review, laurel aitken, specials, the selecter, the beat, stage bottles, les partisans and loikaemie are what I see standing on my CD-shelves atm.

Not all I mentioned, although most are left wing but for sure they are all anti-racist.
Download away I would say.

[Bandito]

the businessAnti-communist, but still also anti-racist


hardskinSexist as fuck, but yeah, anti-racist. I'm pretty sure they are against everything.

[Sasha]

Anti-communist, but still also anti-racist

but pro-union/social-dem



Sexist as fuck, but yeah, anti-racist. I'm pretty sure they are against everything.

lol, i can guarantee you they are anything but sexist as fuck, you know they are an parody outfit right? they are just spoofing actual skinhead OI bands, they are all solid anarcho punks. sean the singer used to be in Schwartzennegar with steve ignorant (crass/conflict) and thatcher on acid, they are just taking the piss in an very british offensive way

[Omsk]

Well,today most of the people think Skinheads are associated with racism and Nazism.
Is there more anti-fa and anti-racist skinheads than the Nazi Hitlerites? (or the white-pride wacko's,ultra-right skins and conservative skinheads?)

[Sasha]

i would say there are far more racist and rightwing fence-sitters than anti-racist let alone leftist skinheads but at least in a lot of countrys; spain, russia, south america, germany come to mind it seems the tables are slowly turning

[Aspiring Humanist]

I'm no skinhead, but this is a pretty good anti-racist song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHUjoAFAIto
I dunno anything about the group itself though

[Niall]

In my experience Iron Crosses are something that boneheads to wear, but its not like a celtic cross seeing somebody wear one doesnt mean you have defo seen a nazi, same as other things like union jacks, white laces, certain tattoos etc

too right, considering it used to be the badge of Glasgow Celtic!

[ellipsis]

ok so i saw a skinhead on the bus with white laces, and this coat with a usa pin;

http://www.angryyoungandpoor.com/store/pc/catalog/products/clothes/warharrpatch.jpg

also listening to thrash metal on his headphones.

Bonehead?

[Sasha]

Probably an "trad" or dropkickmurphys skin, not an bonehead himself but probably fraternise wirh them at an concert.

[Niall]

Re Celtic cross being a fascist symbol
Ive been meaning to get a celtic croos tattoo on my lower leg as Im a fan of Celtic Football Club. Would there be any chance this could be taken the wrong way.

[The Douche]

Psycho, trads aren't down with WP dudes on the west coast of the US, nor do they tolerate them in the modwest. Its only in the south and the mid-atlantic that trad skins and nazis tolerate each other.

[Sasha]

Re Celtic cross being a fascist symbol
Ive been meaning to get a celtic croos tattoo on my lower leg as Im a fan of Celtic Football Club. Would there be any chance this could be taken the wrong way.

get something like this: http://www.ireland-fun-facts.com/images/complex_celtic_cross.jpg

and you should be o.k., maybe trow in some shamrocks for good measure.
get something like this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4YFhK87NXPE/Ry0ww2GpJmI/AAAAAAAAAZw/Gp42pt4HdU4/s400/White%2BPower%2BSymbol.png
not so much...

[Niall]

get something like this: http://www.ireland-fun-facts.com/images/complex_celtic_cross.jpg

and you should be o.k., maybe trow in some shamrocks for good measure.
get something like this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4YFhK87NXPE/Ry0ww2GpJmI/AAAAAAAAAZw/Gp42pt4HdU4/s400/White%2BPower%2BSymbol.png
not so much...

cheers mate. The trick is to make it obviously not connected to fascism etc then! The plan is to get the cross done and then have it as a central scene in a celtic symbology piece

[ellipsis]

Probably an "trad" or dropkickmurphys skin, not an bonehead himself but probably fraternise wirh them at an concert.

Next time i guess Ill ask, thanks to this thread now i can engage them intelligently.

so the margate was a mod club or something? im confused as to the meaning of the jacket.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Angelic upstarts, blaggers ita, los fastidios, sham 69, cocksparrer, red alert, the oppressed, red london, the business, hardskin, (early) OI polloi, the prowlers, the adicts, reazione, klasse kriminale, Aggrolites, Mr review, laurel aitken, specials, the selecter, the beat, stage bottles, les partisans and loikaemie are what I see standing on my CD-shelves atm.

Not all I mentioned, although most are left wing but for sure they are all anti-racist.
Download away I would say.

Blitz was one of my favorite oi groups, back when I still listened to a lot of punk.

[Crux]

7sTeqar4ok4

[Crux]

More seriously though, "patriots" but yeah certainly not fash:

MFiM6Br4Ero

this song is kind of a guilty pleasure:

bhN-ZxV9yE0

[Panda Tse Tung]

More seriously though, "patriots" but yeah certainly not fash:

MFiM6Br4Ero

this song is kind of a guilty pleasure:

bhN-ZxV9yE0
I must admit i had both of those songs on my mp3 at one point :blushing:. I'd almost turn Swedish patriot over the yellow and the blue (j/k but the song still rocks as opposed to... well almost any other patriotic song).

[Malatesta]

Re: Skins. check these articles out from the 'malatesta' website.

http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/gay-nazis-post-script/

http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/skinheads-revisited/

more to come on skinheads. there have always been anarchist and red skins despte what the fascists say!

[AntifaArnhem]

You guys should check out this film about the RedSkin movement of Paris during the 80's

Chasseur de skins (you can find it on youtube aswell as on other sites).

[The Douche]

You guys should check out this film about the RedSkin movement of Paris during the 80's

Chasseur de skins (you can find it on youtube aswell as on other sites).

I posted the link for it in this forum, for anybody who wants to watch it.

[RedSunRising]

kOIfPIITkUc

Haters gonna hate!

[RedSunRising]

Are Combat 84 fash?

[The Douche]

Members of C84 have been NF, others have been SWP.

[RedSunRising]

Members of C84 have been NF, others have been SWP.

WOW!

The SWP kicked out all their working class skins when they kicked out what became "Red Action" (who in many ways were very brilliant, a group definitely worth discussing at some time, who once they were kicked out of the SWP became non-Leninist Marxists while being physically anti-fascist and anti-Imperialist unlike the Communist Left/Ultra-Left, who also weirdly despite their "Machismo" and focus on the white working class had connections with MIM in the states!).

[The Douche]

WOW!

The SWP kicked out all their working class skins when they kicked out what became "Red Action" (who in many ways were very brilliant, a group definitely worth discussing at some time, who once they were kicked out of the SWP became non-Leninist Marxists while being physically anti-fascist and anti-Imperialist unlike the Communist Left/Ultra-Left, who also weirdly despite their "Machismo" and focus on the white working class had connections with MIM in the states!).

I'm pretty familiar with red action. I used to be in RASH. You know that most red action dudes who continued with politics went on to be involved in the Independent Working Class Association?

But yeah, the 80s oi scene was kind of weird like that, the business also had socialist members at times, but at other times played shows in front of swastika banners. I remember an interview with two young skinheads who were trying to decide if they should join RA or B&H, the one said RA, since they were smaller and more likely to get into fights, the other said B&H because they picked fights on a much broader basis than RA did.

[RedSunRising]

I'm pretty familiar with red action. I used to be in RASH. You know that most red action dudes who continued with politics went on to be involved in the Independent Working Class Association?


Yeah....Some of what the IWCA puts out is amazing but some of what it puts out is basically very reformist. They almost seem to be community activism versions of syndicalists. I think where Red Action went wrong is that they were always too uncritical of the leadership of Provisional Sinn Fein and failed to see the class contradictions within Irish Republicanism and so in part ended up following them into reformism. I have some old copies of Red Action at home here, I used to have more.

[RedSunRising]

I remember an interview with two young skinheads who were trying to decide if they should join RA or B&H, the one said RA, since they were smaller and more likely to get into fights, the other said B&H because they picked fights on a much broader basis than RA did.

That said the Provisional IRA who were very serious people trusted Red Action and worked with them on "extra-legal" activity. And RA people proved themselves trust worthy. They had a hardcore that was very dedicated. Their supporter members were a little bit of a different story.

[Lanky Wanker]

When not wanking over pictures of Adolf, Boneheads listen to right-wing influenced rock music. Bonehead rock is actually quite diverse, in recent years the Boneheads have begun to invade the Black Metal scene, this has lead to the creation of NSBM (National Socialist Black Metal).


LOL the first bit made me laugh. As for NSBM... where the fuck do I begin? I've recently started listening to more black metal and I'm SICK of finding out these awesome musicians are nazis. Varg of Burzum was labelled as a Nazi (even by himself at first I think) but then says there are 3 things which distinguish him from a Nazi, one of which being he's not even a socialist or a nationalist (oxymoron much?). Well, thank fuck for that. The only reason he associated himself with Nazism was because of how the German and Norwegian Nazis embraced Paganism and had a strong dislike Christianity, or something along those lines. As for my favourite genre, punk, I'm also sick of people calling these Nazi bastards "punks" or "skinheads". Punk is about individuality, equality and freedom, yet they just LOVE the idea of a hateful, racist dictator.

[The Douche]

That said the Provisional IRA who were very serious people trusted Red Action and worked with them on "extra-legal" activity. And RA people proved themselves trust worthy. They had a hardcore that was very dedicated. Their supporter members were a little bit of a different story.

I think Red Action is really cool, and for a very short period, a group of us who were discontent with RASH wanted to start a group which was more similar to RA.

[RedSunRising]

I think Red Action is really cool, and for a very short period, a group of us who were discontent with RASH wanted to start a group which was more similar to RA.

Its a pity that didnt get off the ground. A group taking the Red Action approach in the USA would be really brilliant. Their feet on the ground attitude and looking at practical problems instead of just theory divorced from anything real in people's lives is something that I respect. Its sad that the old issues of their news paper arent online. They were rough but they brighter than most of the left.

The IRSN which is a break off from the IRSP is a little similar to them.

http://irsn.weebly.com/index.html

[The Douche]

Its a pity that didnt get off the ground. A group taking the Red Action approach in the USA would be really brilliant. Their feet on the ground attitude and looking at practical problems instead of just theory divorced from anything real in people's lives is something that I respect. Its sad that the old issues of their news paper arent online. They were rough but they brighter than most of the left.

The IRSN which is a break off from the IRSP is a little similar to them.

http://irsn.weebly.com/index.html

Yeah, RASH is very disconnected in the US (you could even say it doesn't exist in any meaningful way). We were a small group of skins and some other activists (in fact, I think poster "greymouser" was at the meeting) seeking to create a non-dogmatic marxist, street based organization. They ended up persuing what they called the "Revolutionary Marxist Collective" which shortly afterwards became Philly RAAN, and then disappeared.

I think at some point RAAN kind of wanted to be something like this, but had a different approach, and became very dogmatic.

[The Douche]

Re: Skinheads and staying on topic, this is a picture of little baby cmoney (on the left), like 6 or 7 years ago, 50 pounds ago, and with no tattoos, hanging out with a bunch of young RASH dudes, none of whom are RASH anymore from what I know.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/chrisbrochill/rashedit.jpg

[RedSunRising]

Nice pic!

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What's this "red action" you all keep talking about?

[RedSunRising]

What's this "red action" you all keep talking about?

Basically they were working class kids who were kicked out of the SWP UK for wanting to physically confront fascists and for opposing opportunism, they went on to combine a focus of the "lower" white working class which the left in England was completely ignoring, militant open support for the war against British occupation of the north of Ireland and fascism.

[Sasha]

Together with the DAM (anarchists) they where the backbone of AFA in its heyday, read the book "beating the fascists" its well worth it.

[RedSunRising]

Together with the DAM (anarchists) they where the backbone of AFA in its heyday, read the book "beating the fascists" its well worth it.

Its important to point out that besides kicking fascists off the streets they also were very into politically opposing the fascists in the alienated communities that they were trying to draw support from. They were not the thick thugs of a lot of leftist propaganda.

[The Douche]

RA would be best compared to the "red shirts" who battled the brown shirts during the nazi rise to power. RA was an organization of british working class kids (mostly skinheads) who were in the SWP who engaged in street level action against the fascists. But not just like AFA who are largely devoid of political positions. They had a coherent political approach to anti-fascism (i.e. the power of the organized working class...socialism).

The SWP kicked them out for "squadism". Essentially for fighting the nazis, after that they formed a political organization (which is what RA was). The organization was closely tied to republican socialists as well.

[Sasha]

RA was an organization of british working class kids (mostly skinheads) who were in the SWP who engaged in street level action against the fascists. But not just like AFA who are largely devoid of political positions. They had a coherent political approach to anti-fascism (i.e. the power of the organized working class...socialism).
.


not to nitpick but RA was instrumental in starting and together with the DAM the only constant in running AFA-engeland.
the majority of the AFA stewards where RA members right up to the collapse (when the DAM disbanded and the RA became the IWCA).
seriously, read this book: http://beatingthefascists.org/
i know its subtitled "the unknown story of AFA" but in reality its more "the untold story of RA"

[The Douche]

not to nitpick but RA was instrumental in starting and together with the DAM the only constant in running AFA-engeland.
the majority of the AFA stewards where RA members right up to the collapse (when the DAM disbanded and the RA became the IWCA).
seriously, read this book: http://beatingthefascists.org/
i know its subtitled "the unknown story of AFA" but in reality its more "the untold story of RA"

I've read that.

My point is that AFA doesn't have a clearly defined set of political positions. RA did, IWCA does.

[Sasha]

afa-england doesnt exist anymore, but they always had an clear class analysis, but as an re-active "united front" organisation they always said it wasnt their task to fill the void left by their destruction of fascist organizations.
their analysis always stated clearly that if that void wouldn't be filled by the radical left it would be just an matter of time before fascism returns.

[Malatesta]

Yeah..... I have some old copies of Red Action at home here, I used to have more.

In the 1970s, the National Front were a serious threat on the UK streets and the SWP, who were the largest left wing group, suffered several attacks on paper sellers and meetings. The squads were formed initially for self-defence but then began to take the initiative. With rock against racism/ANL in the ascendancy the alignment or sympathy of many punks and skins, the antifascist stance, was widely absorbed. With Thatcher coming into power the NF dwindled and the squads were seen as superfluous by some. The SWP leadership did not like their autonomy and forcibly disbanded them, expelling several key members. Some whilst in jail for antifascist activity which is disgraceful but expected.
Red Action were formed from the squads. The main Red Action were in London, Manchester and Glasgow and were the business. Red Action took it to the fash and won, showing up the hard men of fascism as a bunch of fucking cowards. Especially Ian Stewart. But they could not do it on their own. Realising they were fairly isolated, though very effective on the cobbles, they sought new partners and after AFA #1 dissolved hooked up with DAM, Class War and Searchlight – who later attempted to stitch up Class War and trying to oust them. See Larry O Hara on this. Differences were put aside on activities – until later in the pub! Red Action had a lot of respect from anarchists and they all used to drink together. The BNP were booted off the streets and decided to go ‘respectable.’ Tony Lecomber – who certain members of AFA/Red Action planted several times – declared ‘no more marches, meetings, punch ups’ in defeat. As the BNP went into electoral mode the IWCA was formed to combat them on the estates, politically. It is best for the IWCA and their supporters to comment on the efficacy of their strategy as I am in no way qualified to comment.
Incidentally if you have any copies of Red Action, Red Sun Rising, is there any chance of scanning them in somehow? The texts are still on the Red Action site but there is a serious lack of photo documentation and facsimiles of antifascist literature. For obvious reasons!
Anyway, as for skins, there were always leftwing skins, anarchist skins and skins who couldn’t care less about any of it. Red Action had skins involved and if you look at the old pix of The Blaggers there’s a few of them in full skin gear. AFA was a mix of skins, casuals, hippies, punks and general good people. Great stuff. Beating The Fascists is an excellent read by the way and I would say that despite being more London based it is a good account. I have read it about 5 times now. Here’s our review:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/beating-the-fascists-review/
Oh! Combat 84 were fascist. One of their original members was Chris ‘Chubby’ Henderson who went on to be an associate of Combat 18 and was nicked in the Chelsea Headhunters trial. The 2 books dealing with this trial are Henderson’s extremely disingenuous and phoney Who Wants It that completely skates over his neo-fascist activity and Steven ‘Hicky’ Hickmott’s Armed For The Match which is a better read but is also in total denial about the relationship between the Headhunters and fascists.
Just so’s you know!

[tachosomoza]

I can't believe nobody has brought up Anti-Racist Action yet. The closest you can get to an prominent, street level antifa group Stateside.

http://antiracistaction.org/

Lotsa skins, yours truly being one of them.


The Right in this country has continuously increased its organizing: in Tea Parties, in neo-Nazi vigilante squads to patrol the nation's borders, and lastly, into scattered groups of thoughtless and reckless pigs; each offering themselves as extra ammunition for the ICE police's violent enforcement of racist and xenophobic legislation. The American Left, on the other hand, has once again shown itself to be completely incapable in providing any adequate response to this reactionary attack on immigrant and paperless peoples. Instead, they prefer to continue spreading their logic of defeat and paternalistic victimization.
The Left, in its impotence, is complicit with the Right in reinforcing the irrational neo-liberal capitalist agenda that devastate lives both here in the United States, and abroad. Both sides of the political spectrum defend Yankee imperialism, the ravaging of the world by multi-national corporations, the militarized borders, and the ICE detention centers that separate parents from their children. In reality, the American Dream turns out to be a chaotic, waking nightmare, and golden-paved streets are replaced with unforgiving concrete, decoratively lined with razor-sharp barbed-wire.
We are not asking for better prison conditions nor for "permission" to stay in this country. Be sure, we are also not asking the ruling class, who perpetuate and undoubtedly benefit from this wretched charade, to finally recognize us as human beings or for petty liberal advocacy. We will never lower ourselves to grovelling for their crumbs, when we are certain that now is the moment to stand up and ruin their gratuitous banquets once and for all.
In solidarity with all the workers, immigrants, paperless rebels, and other Anarchist calls, we call for an Anti-Fascist Contingent acknowledging our common interest in the total annihilation of the global ruling class, their economy, their laws, and of course, the servile pigs who enforce their mandates. We call for an Anti-Fascist Contingent because it is clear to us that until each of these vestiges of bourgeoisie order are eliminated, all our futures will continue to be compromised and coerced.
Towards the destruction of ALL prisons!
For a world without borders and exploitation,
We are not victims, we are your mortal enemy.

[The Douche]

ARA is in decline in a big way, their refusal to become an organization with clear political positions ensures that they will never be as relevant as they could be/once were.

[tachosomoza]

ARA is in decline in a big way, their refusal to become an organization with clear political positions ensures that they will never be as relevant as they could be/once were.

You're partially correct. I've noticed that there are often clashes in terms of strategy and non antifa politics between the classic, working class skinhead element to which I belong and the younger anarcho-punk element which tends to come from bourgeois backgrounds. We're going to have to adapt and come together quite a bit if we are to remain effective in combating "white" supremacy, police brutality, and other things that hurt people at the bottom. Also, the fascists have been trying to exploit the fact that an overwhelming majority of anti-racist activists are "white" as a divisive tactic to further break us up. But rest assured, the ARA isn't going away. Not as long as there are people willing and ready to fight.

[Desperado]

When I read "national socialist black metal" I took black as in skin, and got a picture of an extremely peculiar sub subculture in my head.

[Renno]

Interesting, though very mainstream, read about the Baldies.

http://www.citypages.com/2008-02-20/feature/skinheads-at-forty/

[tachosomoza]

Interesting, though very mainstream, read about the Baldies.

http://www.citypages.com/2008-02-20/feature/skinheads-at-forty/

Those were the fathers of the ARA.

[Renno]

Forgot to mention that, thanks

[trojanpride69]

Not really. The laces and braces game is pointless. However, you can usually pick out a Nazis these days in the U.S. by the loud Metal music and their long hair.

[tachosomoza]

A lot of my SHARP and RASH comrades like loud metal music.

[Sasha]

A lot of my SHARP and RASH comrades like loud metal music.

but would they consider it skinhead music?

[Black Sheep]

who gives a shit about this lifestylism?
there is no function :hairstyle -> ideology

[Thirsty Crow]

Not really. The laces and braces game is pointless. However, you can usually pick out a Nazis these days in the U.S. by the loud Metal music and their long hair.
So metal and long hair indicate nazism?
What pitiful bullshit.

[tachosomoza]

but would they consider it skinhead music?

"Skinhead music" is whatever an individual skin listens to. It can be anything.

[Malatesta]

who gives a shit about this lifestylism?
there is no function :hairstyle -> ideology

to say someone who has shaved their head is therefore either a skinhead or fascist is nonsense. in the uk lots of blokes in their 30s shave their heads to disguise incipient baldness. anyway, lifestyle is important. it is part of identity and surely anarchists/leftists should be defending the right of self expression especially in the current era of sports gear and top man.

nowadays, in the UK, skins tend to be obvious nazi boneheads - with combats, flight jackets etc - or original skins who wear perrys, sherman, sta prest, levis, DMs, crombies etc, although at scooter rallies you can still see mods and skins whose political allegiances are dubious. but there are also left mods/skins there too. the skins were the 1st youth cult to fetishise labels - levis, perrys and especially doc martens. the mods wore bespoke suits. the fash always claim that skinheads were right wing which is stuff and nonsense. just read a fascinating book called Gay Skins by murray healy which completely trounces this argument. there were always gay skins, red skins, anarchoskins as well as loads who didnt give a toss. like there are gay bus drivers, red bus drivers etc.

skinhead music was originally trojan imported ska/reggae and soul/motown. in the late 70s skin revival it was punk and two tone and then oi! which sadly transformed into blood and honour type music which is shite.
best skinhead music: anything on trojan, anything on 2tone!
best skinhead films for clothing detail: 16 years of alcohol, meantime (gary oldman), this is england.
worst films for clothing detail :american history x (danny doesnt even look like a skinhead), romper stomper (tramps), the infiltrator (eejits), the believer (too shabby, no labels). the clothes are awful, scruffy and inaccurate.
best skinhead books are:
Gay Skins, Skinhead - Nick Knight, Skins - Gavin Watson. also some footy memoirs deal with it in passing, best ones for clothing details are micky smith's want some aggro and hoolifan by martin knight.

[Redefining Red State]

If anybody wants a good example of non racist skins who adhere to left wing politics, listen to angelic upstarts :laugh:

[Искра]

I'm a trojan/trad/SHARP skinhead, even many people think that I'm a RASH because of my beliefes. To be honest I hate RASH skinheads. Why? I wrote here long time ago that I hate when subcultures mix with politics, because that means that this politics will soon become verry shallow. Also, I despise RASH because of their 3 arrows symbol. That symbol came originaly from SPD, most reactionary social-democratic party ever:

http://www.fes.de/archiv/adsd_neu/inhalt/downloads/img/weimar/plakat/ka003265.jpg

How can someone who considers himself a communist, or even worst - an anarchist!, use this symbol?

So, I keep to original skinhead style with my politics, because skinhead is a-political subculture as such, and that's good, but that doesn't mean that I'm an a-political as individual.

[Smyg]

How can someone who considers himself a communist, or even worst - an anarchist!, use this symbol?


'Cause they thinks it's cool, obviously.

[Искра]

No, they don't think - at all :) That is a big problem with subcultures and politics. For example look at the crusties/anarcho-punx and anarchism... :rolleyes:

[The Douche]

I always thought that the circled arrows came from the French revolution...I feel like I was told that when I was a freshcut.

But it was designed by/for the SPD.

[Искра]

Yeah me too, because they put those 3 words on arrows. But I think that this is originally where it came from.

[The Douche]

Yeah me too, because they put those 3 words on arrows. But I think that this is originally where it came from.

Yeah, wikipedia sources it to the SPD.

But, fuck RASH either way.

[Art Vandelay]

I have hair now but given my genes I accept the fact that I will most likely lose it by the time I am thirty, at least I can consider myself a skinhead then once I shave it all off to cover up going bald. It will be a good excuse as to why I have no hair

"umm im not actually bald just a skin head"

Could be an easy way to bring up politics but I agree that a lifestyle choice is not political.

[The Douche]

I have hair now but given my genes I accept the fact that I will most likely lose it by the time I am thirty, at least I can consider myself a skinhead then once I shave it all off to cover up going bald. It will be a good excuse as to why I have no hair

"umm im not actually bald just a skin head"

Could be an easy way to bring up politics but I agree that a lifestyle choice is not political.

Posts like this make me hate my life.

I mean, I have a sense of humor and everything, but it does irk me when people act like something which has been such a big part of my life is just a haircut.