True ruler of soviet union after Lenins death

[CHEtheLIBERATOR]

I was wondering who do you think lenin wanted to take leadership.See I'm a trotskyist so my opinion is bipartison.I don't think lenin wanted Stalin to rule

[JimmyJazz]

start yet another terrible thread about it

[Red October]

The true "ruler" of the USSR should have been the Soviet workers, not Trotsky or Stalin. But like JimmyJazz pointed out, threads like this always turn into shitfests.

[Revolutionary Youth]

The true "ruler" of the USSR should have been the Soviet workers, not Trotsky or Stalin. But like JimmyJazz pointed out, threads like this always turn into shitfests.
Agreed.

[MAVA]

The true "ruler" of the USSR should have been the Soviet workers, not Trotsky or Stalin. But like JimmyJazz pointed out, threads like this always turn into shitfests.
Hell yes

[Brother No. 1]

to all who said it turns into a "Shitfest" that is right and how the Soviet people are the true rulers another good point.

[Charles Xavier]

Another terrible thread for the lose.

[ComradeOm]

Wow. Six posts (out of six) saying how shit this thread is. Talk about self-fulfilling prophesies :rolleyes:

To the OP, I go into some detail (well, relatively) on this topic in this thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/lenins-and-trotskyists-t90312/index.html?t=90312)

[JimmyJazz]

The true "ruler" of the USSR should have been the Soviet workers, not Trotsky or Stalin. But like JimmyJazz pointed out, threads like this always turn into shitfests.

Actually I meant that all of CHEtheLIBERATOR's threads have been terrible so far, but this works too.

[BPSocialist]

I think Lenin wanted Trotsky to take over. There's a quote about Trotsky made by Lenin somewhere that would back this up, but i've forgotten where.

[Socialist Scum]

Lenin left in his will that he did not want Stalin taking over, and bashed him like hell. Stalin cleverly told party members one by one that the will bashed them, and so when it was called to a vote the will was never read.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Lenin left in his will that he did not want Stalin taking over, and bashed him like hell. Stalin cleverly told party members one by one that the will bashed them, and so when it was called to a vote the will was never read.


He also commented on the leading members of the Soviet leadership and suggested that Stalin be removed from his position as General Secretary of the Soviet Communist Party's Central Committee.
Interesting indeed.

[Brother No. 1]

if lenin had not died things would have been better.

[Cumannach]

Lenin wanted Trotsky to be crowned King of the Communists after his death, but Stalin, when he heard that, was overcome with jealousy and threw Trotsky down a well.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I was wondering who do you think lenin wanted to take leadership.See I'm a trotskyist so my opinion is bipartison.I don't think lenin wanted Stalin to rule

Technically it should have become the workers, but if there must be a leader I choose Trotsky. He would have allowed the revolution to spread, therefore we may have been living in Communism right now. Also, I doubt the USSR would have become corrupted under Trotsky.

[Brother No. 1]

but Stalin got power and the CCCPs name has been ruined but Stalins name was also ruined. Vengence.

[LOLseph Stalin]

but Stalin got power and the CCCPs name has been ruined but Stalins name was also ruined. Vengence.

It's people like Stalin that give our ideas the bad reputation they have. :cursing:

[Brother No. 1]

Thats why we dont like Stalin that much but he did do a few good things. but Alot of bad things.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Thats why we dont like Stalin that much but he did do a few good things. but Alot of bad things.

Yep. He defeated nazi scum. :rolleyes:

[Brother No. 1]

he also made the CCCP the most powerful nation in the world and made the Capitalist pigs cower in fear.

[LOLseph Stalin]

he also made the CCCP the most powerful nation in the world and made the Capitalist pigs cower in fear.

Hell yes! Although the people payed a heavy price in the process. Therefore I don't like him. All those deaths weren't worth it.

[Brother No. 1]

yeah so many died but the bravest battle the soviet people had was Stalingrad the most patrotic battle that almost compares to the Russian Revloution and what happend after 1917.

[LOLseph Stalin]

yeah so many died but the bravest battle the soviet people had was Stalingrad the most patrotic battle that almost compares to the Russian Revloution and what happend after 1917.

Wow! Stalingrad was quite impressive. The Red Army gave the Nazis quite an ass kicking!

[Brother No. 1]

not just the Red Army but the citizens also helped as well I think they would use the term. " not one step back! Do not count the days do not count miles only count the number of Germans you have killed. This is the pray of your mother this is the Cry of your russian earth. DEATH TO THE GERMAN INVADERS!!!'

[Chapter 24]

It's people like Stalin that give our ideas the bad reputation they have. :cursing:

You realize, of course, that no matter who the General Secretary of the CPSU came to be, the same slander and falseshoods would be spread about the communist movement?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg

It's certainly a cop-out to blame communism's "image" on one man. It would have been lied about in either scenario.

[Brother No. 1]

that was used by the Czarist to try and tell we were bad but with the People Lenin crushed the oppersors.

[LOLseph Stalin]

You realize, of course, that no matter who the General Secretary of the CPSU came to be, the same slander and falseshoods would be spread about the communist movement?

Probably. Those reactionaries will always hate us. Hilarious picture though.

[Brother No. 1]

Trosky as a Demon its more like Czar russia as the Demon.

[Chapter 24]

that was used by the Czarist to try and tell we were bad but with the People Lenin crushed the oppersors.

You don't understand what I'm getting at here. Many people who say that Stalin was a "bad leader" and then resort to the argument that Anti-Revisionists are guilty of "people worship" and the "great men" theory and then go onto say that Stalin made communism "look bad" are just as guilty of perpetuating the great men theory - because they claim that it was Stalin and Stalin alone that has given the movement the image it has. Clearly this is not the case because the bourgeoisie have a monopoly on information flow, and giving a rational analysis of Stalin's leadership is simply not in their interests.


Probably. Those reactionaries will always hate us. Hilarious picture though.

Not really. It basically is a depiction of the communist Jewish devil Trotsky grasping his hold onto Russia under the skulls and bones of Russians while stereotypical Chinamen are aiding him. Much less subtle than later Cold War anti-communist propaganda and certainly more racist and xenophobic than average.

[Brother No. 1]

hmm now I understand what you are getting at.

[Jorge Miguel]

Stalin was General Secretary before Lenin died. What exactly did he "take over"?

[Wanted Man]

I don't think one individual should ever be "ruler". And, as much as I support Lenin and marxism-leninism, I also don't think that such an individual should decide who the next "ruler" will be by his testament. So I think pointing to that will is probably the weakest argument of Trotsky and his supporters.

[Blackscare]

You realize, of course, that no matter who the General Secretary of the CPSU came to be, the same slander and falseshoods would be spread about the communist movement?


Granted, but the reasons Stalin was hated were to a large degree based in reality. He certainly didn't help communism's image, although it would have been slandered anyway.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Trotsky? I don't like him since I don't like his hair style. Simple as that.

[BIG BROTHER]

omg, it doesn't really matter if Trotsky would have been the next "ruler". First of all, from what I have read, Lenin didn't think neither Trotsky or Stalin would have made good leaders. Although yea he asked Stalin to be removed from the position of general secretary.

Anyways yea, the Workers ARE supposed to be the only rulers. But the revolution was isolated, and a bureaucracy that defeated the proletariat developed. If the material conditions would have been the same Trotsky would have become a bureaucrat just like Stalin.

[Brother No. 1]

Why did Lenin suffer so much with those strokes.

[destroy and rebuild]

A couple things. If threads like this always turn into shitfests, it should have ended a while ago, but hey I've only been here a day so I've yet to join a shitfest so why not give some input;


Why did Lenin suffer so much with those strokes.

That was mad off topic. Anyway,

I think the whole process was executed a bit wrong from the start, Lenin's day. I mean, we agree that in principle the Soviet Union's workers should have been the ones in control, but further I think there were other mistakes. There should have at least been some form of democracy or oppurtunity for people to intervene in who took the lead of the Soviet Union, instead of it being up to the Vanguard. Which is another fundamental mistake, the whole 'professional revolutionaries' thing. It's a big chain reaction that states basically that the Soviet Union was fucked from the beginning. Might just be because I'm certainly no Leninist.

[Brother No. 1]

the people should have been in control right when the Revloution ended.

[destroy and rebuild]

I just said that, I don't get why you'd reply with that. I just say that though it may because of my own ideological preferences I think the Soviet Union was doomed from the beginning because of the basic principles it was founded on.

[LOLseph Stalin]

It basically is a depiction of the communist Jewish devil Trotsky grasping his hold onto Russia under the skulls and bones of Russians while stereotypical Chinamen are aiding him.

No insulting Trotsky in my presence! :cursing:


the people should have been in control right when the Revloution ended.

They should have been. Somebody obviously left out the whole "Dictatorship of the proletariat" aspect.

[Brother No. 1]

Yeah some one left that part of the Revloution out it seems.

[destroy and rebuild]

Not to begin an argument between the fundamental ideas of our ideologies, but the dictatorship of the proletariat wasn't what I was getting at, though I was getting at worker's coming first. You've used the phrase 'Absolute power corrupts Absolutely' in other threads I've read, and it was about Stalin or whatever but I think the Marxist transition is an example of this itself. Again, this'll just turn into a fundamental Anarchist vs. Leninist debate so I don't think that belongs in this thread.

[ComradeOm]

Granted, but the reasons Stalin was hated were to a large degree based in realityAmongst Trots perhaps but, whatever the validity of their criticisms, they were never more than a decided minority of the communist movement and an negligible percentage of the overall Western population. Amongst the latter it wasn't until the mid-60s, with the 'Khrushchev Thaw' and Conquest's 'Great Terror', that the full scale of the purges and repression in Stalin's Russia became clear. By this stage the negative perception of the USSR was decades old and firmly established


I don't think one individual should ever be "ruler". And, as much as I support Lenin and marxism-leninism, I also don't think that such an individual should decide who the next "ruler" will be by his testamentLenin was not "crowning" Trotsky as the next leader and nor did he have the authority to so. What he was doing was using the immense amount of respect and goodwill (political capital, if you will) that he had built up from decades of service to endorse Trotsky. The actual position of Chairman of Sovnarkom was an elected one - following Lenin's death his actual successor Rykov was voted into the position

The misunderstanding seems to arise from the fact that this position ceased to be an elected one by the 1930s and that Stalin's power base in the party bureaucracy (he did not become Chairman until 1941) was never democratic

[ev]

I was the true leader of the USSR after Stalins death. I still am.

[Charles Xavier]

If Trotsky was in power he'd have to do the same as Stalin in order to defend the revolution.

So it doesn't matter either way.

[Pogue]

The 'ruler' obviously should have been the workers councils. The revolution could not 'progress' under party or individual rule. A revolution doesn't develop by the revolutionary nation getting richer, it progresses as it gives more power to the working class.

[Revolutionary Youth]

After all, I don't like the way he uses the word "ruler", since no one rules over another! Don't tell me that a Commie rules a Commie! It sounds like the feudal regime and imperialism.
I think "leader" would be a better word.

[SocialRealist]

The true ruler should have been the people of the Soviet Union. I think in my heart that Trotsky would have pushed for a more democratical system in the Soviet Union.

We must look at the past to the times of the Soviet Union and make sure never to make the mistakes that were made again.

[LOLseph Stalin]

The true ruler should have been the people of the Soviet Union. I think in my heart that Trotsky would have pushed for a more democratical system in the Soviet Union.

Cheers to that!

[BIG BROTHER]

No, you guys are starting to sound more like idealists and less like materialists. First of all for Trotsky to take power he would have had to use his support in the military, and on top of that the MATERIAL CONDITIONS, AND ISOLATION OF THE REVOLUTION mean that Trotsky would have been just like Stalin, if not more totalitarian!

The only way something like that would have been avoided was, it the proletariat had been able to defeat the burocracy and expand the revolution to other advanced countries. Then wether it was Trotsky or any other bolsheviks the ones to "lead" the Soviet Union could have workers democracy been possible.

[Charles Xavier]

The only way Trotsky had any attempt to gain power would be through a coup d'etat which would be anti-democratic beyond measure. Yet he attempted this.