SOVIET UNION vs. Russian federation

[CHEtheLIBERATOR]

Who here is a supporter.I prefer soviet union because it actualy helped spread revolution

[revolution inaction]

yes when it suppressed the Hungarian revolutions was a particular good moment.

[Herman]

At the very least, the Soviet Union was a symbol. As ti stands now, Russia is an imperialist power-wannabe, with reactionary, conservative and maffioso-like capitalists.

[Woland]

Russian Federation is a joke in every way.

[Cunning_plan]

darn... i thought it was a football match :(

[Vargha Poralli]

Who here is a supporter.I prefer soviet union because it actualy helped spread revolution


Good Joke :rolleyes:

[SocialRealist]

When you say "helped spread the revolution" I ask what kind of revolution did the Soviet Union spread? Did it spread a revolution that would liberate the workers from the capitalist society, helping them to make a workers democracy where they could both control the economy and have emancipation?

The Soviet Union to me was a state that relied on using nationalism, opposition and dictatorship to survive through out the years. To me the Soviet Union shows a state of irony, a state that helped destroy the Nazi ran Germany but instead killed more than the Nazi's ever killed.

The Soviet Union was a state of lies as well, they played Lenin only to Stalin's side whilst Stalin was in power of course. Doing things such a suppressing Lenin's call to arms of the people to take Stalin out of power.

What can I say though between the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation? I can say that the Russian Federation in its own has many problems, problems that need to be worked out. Yet the Russian Federation has done nothing to compare to what the Soviet Union has done.

I think of the Vladimir Putin quote right now. Those who do not miss the Soviet Union have no heart, those who want the Soviet Union back have no brain.

[Chapter 24]

The Soviet Union to me was a state that relied on using nationalism, opposition and dictatorship to survive through out the years. To me the Soviet Union shows a state of irony, a state that helped destroy the Nazi ran Germany but instead killed more than the Nazi's ever killed.

Oh Christ. You're not talking about the 20,000,000 figure are you? Or perhaps the 40,000,000 or 60,000,0000 one? Whichever one, could you please cite a source for this besides Wikipedia or The Black Book, and possibly leave out the bourgeois sources? 'Cause you should know what Marx said about the current ruling class putting events in a light favorable to them, right?


What can I say though between the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation? I can say that the Russian Federation in its own has many problems, problems that need to be worked out. Yet the Russian Federation has done nothing to compare to what the Soviet Union has done.

I think of the Vladimir Putin quote right now. Those who do not miss the Soviet Union have no heart, those who want the Soviet Union back have no brain.

Are you serious with this? Like, really?
First off to say that the problems that the Russian Federation has can simply be "worked out" is idealist at best, counterproductive at worst. Right now Russia faces an imensity of problems, including an increasingly controlling oligarchy, a high poverty rate, decreasing birth rate while also having an increasing death rate (along with decreased life expectancy), and a rise in fascist and ultranationalist tendencies. It would be naïve for anyone to believe that these types of conditions existing in modern-day Russian society and the fall of the Soviet Union are not related.
Your simplifying things to "nationalism, oppression, dictatorship" is just that, a simplification. What country doesn't use nationalism as a method? What is your idea of freedom? And how exactly is a "Stalinist" dictatorship any worse than the bourgeois dictatorships that exist? Oh, wait, I forgot, those are "democracies.":rolleyes:
Despite what ideas you may have in your head about the USSR being an evil tyrannical bad kid on the block, there was a revolution that existed that did provide gains for the working class in the areas of living standards, life expectancy, education, and literacy. The Russian Federation is far from a democracy, I'm fairly sure that any self-described anti-capitalist can point this out.

[Sam_b]

SocialRealist yet again tries to make absurd comparisons and gives hee-haw analysis.

I agree that the Soviet Union had many problems. However, lets remember that wheras there was a large divide in wealth between ruling elites and workers, the wage was still liveable to a state of relative comfort and there was job stability - most workers had one job at a certain factory/plant etc for their entire lives. The neo-liberal Schumpterian policies advocated by the new Russian Federation caused a carve-up of industry and property, and an even deeper layer of corruption. This caused mass inflation, which led to several crashes, the most prominant in 1998 when the Rouble collapsed on the world market. This plunged millions into unemployment and deprivation: approximately 20 million Russians still live in adject poverty. The unemployment problem is still out of control today, especially with the current recession which again hit Russia hard.

One thing that the neo-liberal carve-up also resulted in is backlogs of wages. Workers would not get paid for months at a time due to bankrupting businesses and a decline of industry, but were forced to continue their work because if not it would be significantly more difficult to get a new job. One example I remember is the small business project to encourage entrepreneurship: in some areas the 1998 collapse hit so hard that those awarded the business loan were paid in logs rather than money because of the weakness of the rouble and that local authorities simply had no money left.

This of course has resulted in spiraling deprivation, continued reliance on drink to solve people's problems, and a complete collapse of the welfare state and civil society due to the structures being obliterated, and then eradicated, after the break-up of the Union.

So please don't try and give any impression that life is much easier in the new Russian Federation. Russian workers, and indeed their neighbours in the Central Asian, East European and Baltic states that were also part of the Soviet Union still face oppression: but it is of a different kind to that they had previously experienced.

[Philosophical Materialist]

The USSR did not live up to its stated purposes, and by the end it become distant and distorted from the original workers' state it was supposed to be.

That being said, the USSR was a progressive force in the world. Countless anti-colonial, national liberation, and workers' struggles were given support, training and focus by the Soviet Union.

The Russian Federation hasn't played any progressive role since its inception in 1991. It's a capitalist and imperialist state like the EU states and the USA.

[Spasiba]

That being said, the USSR was a progressive force in the world. Countless anti-colonial, national liberation, and workers' struggles were given support, training and focus by the Soviet Union.

For it's whole life? Spain and Germany pre-WWII? Hungary 1956? I'm not saying it there weren't times it did good things, but to say it was always trying to instigate world revolution is just wrong. It could easily be said it was just an imperialist power funding movements that would benefit it, just as the US did.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I'm not fond of either one, but at least the Soviet Union attempted to put Communism into practice. Unfortunately it failed.

[Rjevan]

I love Russia, but the Federation is a joke. The oligarches, the parvenues and the corrupted bosses ruin the country and drive it and the people into their ruin and the crime rate was much lower in the Soviet Union, too.
Well, if they go on like this there will maybe be an other revolution, the only question is: a fascist or a communist revolution?

[ComradeOm]

Well, if they go on like this there will maybe be an other revolution, the only question is: a fascist or a communist revolution?A "fascist revolution" is a contradiction in terms

[Rjevan]

That point goes to you. I meant a fascist coup. ;)

[Das war einmal]

http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/g2/d/14682-1/ibtl-trinity.jpg

[Killfacer]

I thought it was gonna be a "who would win in a fight" thread. The bitter taste of dissapointment.

[Brother No. 1]

CCCP vs Russia. We all know who wins besides does the Russian goverment even have "complete" control no they dont the Red mob has more control then them actualy. So basicly the CCCP is all was virctorious.