When you pay for MP3's....

[Dr Mindbender]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/ulstersocialist/0014_capitalism.jpg

[F9]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/ulstersocialist/0014_capitalism.jpg

hahahaha loved it!!:Dgreat work!

[LOLseph Stalin]

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd256/geldonyetich/warez-communism.jpgThis one is quite accurate as well. :P

[Lord Testicles]

http://david.stadelmann-online.com/economics/0015_communism.jpg

Who still pays for music? :laugh:

[Ephydriad]

Who still pays for music? :laugh:

A lot of people I know, sadly. Who all try to convince me that I'm some giant crook robbing Madonna of her wealth... uh huh right.

Intellectual property, y'all!

[LOLseph Stalin]

A lot of people I know, sadly. Who all try to convince me that I'm some giant crook robbing Madonna of her wealth... uh huh right.

Intellectual property, y'all!

Some of my friends still pay for music. Haha. As if those people need more wealth.

[Relnicht]

damn motherf*cking damn, those are funny xD

[eisidisirock]

We could need some new ones :D

[scarletghoul]

Awesome. Must be distributed.

[Relnicht]

i say
MOOOORE!

[communard resolution]

Nice artwork, but I'd be curious about your views how you think recording artists/bands should get paid in the future and how the record industry should be run.

Since we haven't achieved a moneyless communist society just yet, these artists do need money to live off, right? And if the record industry doesn't make enough money, it's the artists who earn nothing or lose their record deals while the record industry bosses stay rich. (I'm obviously not speaking about Metallica or Madonna, but about the 99% of signed bands who are lucky if they ever see any revenue at all). Means: less records, less variety in music, less musical adventurousness, nothing but a few big mega-sellers on offer. We had this situation before in the 70s when record companies would take no risks and played it safe with their dinosaur rock bands, the modern equivalent of which are Coldplay and Nickelback.

Also, why should I pay you for whatever service you provide in your day job? Why not steal it or bullshit you if I can?

Don't take this as an attack, these are just some very random thoughts. Since it's available I download illegally as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't go as far as thinking of it as an anti-capitalist act.

[Pogue]

Nice stuff.

But aren't the free download softwares full of viruses? because you don't know the source of the files, etc? I don't know if theres a way around that problem.

[revolution inaction]

Nice stuff.

But aren't the free download softwares full of viruses? because you don't know the source of the files, etc? I don't know if theres a way around that problem.

Use a virus scanner? or linux or a mac
Depends what you mean by "free download softwares" anyway, and mp3 and films arent software

[Pogue]

Oh, would scanning files before hand prevent any chance of getting a virus?

[Picky Bugger]

Using programs like limewire for instance is fraught with problems and this is where most of the viruses come from etc.

In my experience of using torrents I've never even encountered a trojan or other virus. Its not hard to avoid files that seem dodgy and there are websites that offer a relatively safe experience. Demonoid for instance has a good community so you wont find any viruses there.

The music industry increasingly makes money from gigs etc so there is less emphasis on sales of cds etc. The downloading of free music is mostly harming the music retailers such as HMV and really would anyone miss them and their overpriced products from the high street.

[Dr Mindbender]

Nice artwork, but I'd be curious about your views how you think recording artists/bands should get paid in the future and how the record industry should be run.

Since we haven't achieved a moneyless communist society just yet, these artists do need money to live off, right? .

Well, this point is completely ignorant of the fact that big contract musicians already live as well off as any other A-list celebrities. So you'll forgive me if i don't lose any sleep over a bit of their lost revenue.

They also make big money from the sale of concert tickets, and in combat to the musicians who wanted to take the music sharing sites to court, some bands actually came to their defence for example Radiohead, who felt it was a positive that people who wouldnt ordinarilly be able to afford cd's had access to their work.

[communard resolution]

Well, this point is completely ignorant of the fact that big contract musicians already live as well off as any other A-list celebrities.

Not true. The vast majority of signed artists will never make any profit at all, whether it's a major label deal or not. Most of them will barely be able to pay off their advances.

Unless by 'big contract' artists you mean the real mega-sellers (rather than just major label artists in general), which I've already excluded in my initial post as they are not the people who are truly affected by the state of the recording industry.

As I mentioned, the result is that less acts are getting signed, the music industry is taking no risks and is only putting money in their big sellers. Which means you'll have ten further Coldplay albums that all sound the same instead of ten new exciting bands playing something risky or edgy.



Radiohead, who felt it was a positive that people who wouldnt ordinarilly be able to afford cd's had access to their work Radiohead are one of the mega-seller bands who can afford such sentiments, not least to uphold the liberal image that's expected from them. They would be thinking differently if they were starting out as a band now.

[DIzzIE]

Excellent graphic, Ulster Socialist. An ingeniously poignant reversal :).




Also, why should I pay you for whatever service you provide in your day job? Why not steal it or bullshit you if I can?

Yes, why should you, and why not indeed?


I download illegally as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't go as far as thinking of it as an anti-capitalist act.

The free, unbridled dissemination of information with no exclusive ownership of data? Sure sounds like an 'anti-capitalist' act to me.

[communard resolution]

Yes, why should you, and why not indeed? In a moneyless, communist society I wouldn't have to pay for your service, but that's not the society we live in. Even then, I doubt you'd be happy to provide this service if I never gave anything back.

To bullshit you or steal from you, as my example went, is certainly not an anti-capitalist act. Otherwise I'm sure you'll gladly PM me your bank details.



The free, unbridled dissemination of information with no exclusive ownership of data? Sure sounds like an 'anti-capitalist' act to me.As I mentioned before, it's not the owners of the major record labels or their major artists who suffer from this - it's all those bands who have made their art a profession but are now even more unlikely to ever see any money at all.

If there was a way to illegally download burgers from McDonald's rather than pay for them, many people -including myself- would be sure to never pay for food again. However, the immediate result would not be the disintegration of capitalism but the lowering of wages and potentally loss of employment for many workers. That's also why there's no big point in boycotting this and that company, as we discussed in other threads.

I'd be interested how you imagine musicians should get paid for their work if you insist on getting their product for free. Would you be willing to pay extra artist taxes in order for musicians to receive a steady government wage? Or do you think that being a musician isn't/shoudn't be a 'proper job' anyway?

Also, how do you feel about the effects on music that I outlined above? Are you happy with the music industry pumping all their money into their Coldplays and Nickelbacks while more interesting acts have little chance of getting signed at all?

[Qayin]

I buy albums and such
but mp3s are lame as fuck

[DIzzIE]

Yes, why should you, and why not indeed?
In a moneyless, communist society I wouldn't have to pay for your service, but that's not the society we live in.

Your answer, then, is that one should pay for services because one lives in a society where one has to? But 'the grifter' as such is no mythical figure...In other words, the mere existence of people who don't pay for services (yet still obtain them) would seemingly contradict your claim. So I'll ask again, why should one pay for services?


I doubt you'd be happy to provide this service if I never gave anything back.

I'm not exactly sure what 'this service' you allude to actually is, though I suppose it's ultimately irrelevant, as the more important question seems to be what exactly 'giving something back' entails...but since you seem skeptical of my 'happiness' in doing so (which is an unwarranted assumption on your part, so I will go ahead and extend you the same courtesy that you have extended me, and assume that this statement is a projection of your own views), rest assured that, no, I would not kill off anyone in a persistent vegetative state (and by that, to once again return your courtesy in kind, I mean to imply that you would).


To bullshit you or steal from you, as my example went, is certainly not an anti-capitalist act. Otherwise I'm sure you'll gladly PM me your bank details.

I'm not sure I follow the connection between these two sentences. If bullshitting and thieving were anti-capitalist acts, then how, pray tell, would it follow that I would be glad to PM you my bank details? Though at any rate, I have no 'bank details' to give...




The free, unbridled dissemination of information with no exclusive ownership of data? Sure sounds like an 'anti-capitalist' act to me.

As I mentioned before, it's not the owners of the major record labels or their major artists who suffer from this - it's all those bands who have made their art a profession but are now even more unlikely to ever see any money at all.

On a warez channel a few nights ago, someone said the following:



<hodGe> im in a hiphop group
<hodGe> i used to do this shit all the time
<hodGe> and we just released a cd and If you could throw it on some bots I would appreciate it
<hodGe> thedsv.com
<hodGe> can download the album for free


On Demonoid (http://www.demonoid.com/), a popular torrent site, there is a routine news post entitled 'music from our members' which features albums site members who are also band members upload themselves.

On Mininova (http://www.mininova.org/featured/cat/), an even more popular torrent site, there is a Featured torrent section where site members who are also band members also upload their songs themselves. One particular case (http://www.mininova.org/tor/2330818), though, caught my eye in light of your earlier remark that "I doubt you'd be happy to provide this service if I never gave anything back", wherein the uploader says "I DOWNLOAD MUSIC FOR FREE IT WOULD BE HYPOCRITICAL OF ME NOT TO GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY".

I could go on listing examples of 'indie' musicians handing out their compositions for free...though at this point what's more interesting is that you seem to have conflated 'suffering' with 'lack of money', which is quite peculiar indeed.


If there was a way to illegally download burgers from McDonald's rather than pay for them, many people -including myself- would be sure to never pay for food again. However, the immediate result would not be the disintegration of capitalism but the lowering of wages and potentially loss of employment for many workers. That's also why there's no big point in boycotting this and that company, as we discussed in other threads.

But there is a way to illegally download burgers from McDonald's. One would simply have to take a coupon for a free burger from that chain and digitize it (ie by putting it up on, say, a torrent site). There's some more info about all sorts of fun with coupons here (http://www.dizzy.ws/Couponing_v2.htm), if you're so inclined.

That this may lead to the loss of employment of burger makers, why so much the better! As for 'boycotting', any time you make a choice to patronize establishment X over establishment Y, you are effectively engaged in the very act of 'boycotting this and that company'.


I'd be interested how you imagine musicians should get paid for their work if you insist on getting their product for free.

They shouldn't.


Would you be willing to pay extra artist taxes in order for musicians to receive a steady government wage?

No.


Or do you think that being a musician isn't/shoudn't be a 'proper job' anyway?

I don't know what a 'proper job' is.


Also, how do you feel about the effects on music that I outlined above?

I am thrilled that the tentacles of capital have only enwrapped themselves around a select number of victims instead of around all musicians, as you seem to be wanting.


Are you happy with the music industry pumping all their money into their Coldplays and Nickelbacks while more interesting acts have little chance of getting signed at all?

Yes.

[DIzzIE]

Hate to necro-post, but couldn't help but think of Nero the Emperor's comments in this thread in light of the fact that this burger analogy z made seems to be really taking off lately. :laugh:


If there was a way to illegally download burgers from McDonald's rather than pay for them, many people -including myself- would be sure to never pay for food again.


In what appears to be a new marketing campaign by fast food giant Burger King, the company likens its cheeseburgers to piracy. A scan of a promotional flyer sent to TorrentFreak says that BK’s burgers are just like downloading music from the Internet, but better because they’re “legal”. (Source (http://torrentfreak.com/burger-king-says-cheeseburgers-better-than-music-piracy-090509/))

[cleef]

yeh i kno people who still buy the albums the response i normally get when i ask is that they 'like to have a physical cd to own' lol like the disc is more important than the stuff on it

still i usually buy music if it is from an independent artist who is unsigned

[Verix]

i downloaded music once, im just afraid of going to jail, if i do i would want it to be for more then downloading music, like shooting rush limbaugh

[NecroCommie]

i downloaded music once, im just afraid of going to jail, if i do i would want it to be for more then downloading music, like shooting rush limbaugh
No one goes to jail for piracy. It would be insane! The juries would need to jail third of the fucking population here!

[amandevsingh]

Love the Art,
If you use UTorrent, by the way, and go to a reliable site, there is little chance of virus.
I think that I'm just being cheap, not Anti-Capitalist by doing this. I need no false justification.

[revolution inaction]

Love the Art,
If you use UTorrent, by the way, and go to a reliable site, there is little chance of virus.
I think that I'm just being cheap, not Anti-Capitalist by doing this. I need no false justification.

i don't think you can get viruses from mp3's even if you try.

[kharacter]

i don't think you can get viruses from mp3's even if you try.

yeah, you just have to use common sense when searching for stuff. I tried downloading a Wormed album once, and it came up with an exe. file....so of course it was the album i was looking for.

[DIzzIE]

I think that I'm just being cheap, not Anti-Capitalist by doing this. I need no false justification.

Why is stating that piracy is anti-capitalist a 'false justification' (if indeed you were claiming that it is, your wording is a bit ambiguous)?


The free, unbridled dissemination of information with no exclusive ownership of data? Sure sounds like an 'anti-capitalist' act to me.

I'd also suggest reading through Michael Strangelove's The Empire of Mind: Digital Piracy and the Anti-Capitalist Movement (http://books.google.com/books?id=lbheLBLhOPAC&printsec=frontcover) for some more arguments about the matter.

[NoMore]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/ulstersocialist/0014_capitalism.jpg

Thats why there's pirate bay:thumbup1: