Girl beaten for being English in Scotland.

[SocialRealist]

Source: Daily Mail [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1114567/Scars-girl-beaten-English-Scotland.html]
Summary:
This young woman was viciously assaulted in Scotland because she has an English accent.

Lucy Newman, 22, was left with two black eyes and a broken cheekbone after a night out with friends in Aberdeen.

The beauty therapist, who is 5ft 3in tall, said: 'Two guys walked past and shouted something about the English.

[spartan]

Hmmm the Daily Mail? (or as we call it in Britain the Daily Heil due to it's high profile support of Hitler, the Nazis and the BUF in the 30's which nearly got the paper shut down on the eve of war).

Britain's leading right-wing unionist paper reporting a story of an English girl being attacked for her 'Englishness' by Scots in Scotland (a country which has a real possibility of becoming independent of the union the Daily Mail loves so much).

I am not saying that this story is untrue or in any way belittling the attack on this young women (which is despicable) but the paper reporting it naturally makes me suspicious of their motive in reporting this story and makes me wonder if they have taken liberties with her story to fit their right-wing unionist agenda?

[SocialRealist]

Hmmm the Daily Mail? (or as we call it in Britain the Daily Heil due to it's high profile support of Hitler, the Nazis and the BUF in the 30's which nearly got the paper shut down on the eve of war).

Britains leading right-wing unionist paper reporting a story of an English girl being attacked for her Englishness by Scots in Scotland (a country which has a real possibility of becoming independent of the union the Daily Mail loves so much).

I am not saying that this story is untrue or in any way belittling the attack on this young women (which is despicable) but the paper reporting it naturally makes me suspicious of their motive in reporting this story and makes me wonder if they have taken liberties with her story to fit their right-wing unionist agenda?
Quite honestly I don't know much about the Daily Mail. Could you recommend any good United Kingdom sources for me?

Well I am not quite sure if they are using this story for that matter. I think this story is genuine though, but as with every news source there must be a bit of spin on the actual story though.

[Pogue]

The Daily Mail often tries to stir up mass hysteria to do with immigrants, homosexuality, etc, while trying to portray sme big moral corruption in society which we as ''Good honest brits" need to resist. I don't believe a word it says.

[Pogue]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Immigration

Here is the wiki article, I linked it because I don't know how to post pictures but if you see the image thats a typical Daily Fail frontpage, notice the angry and idiotic language and the juxtaposition of a line of immigrants some of whoms whose faces we cannot see because of from where the picture was taken and then a 'gang' of men (designed by the Mail to make them look intimidating) and the happy white nuclear family smiling and being sociable and normal. This is the sort of shit they put out everyday and is why I despise the Daily Mail, and why many leftists such as Ken Livingstone say the Fail is racist.

[communard resolution]

I don't believe a word it says.

Yes, with this I agree 100%. The Daily Mail is a filthy, hate-stirring, xenophobic and homophobic rag and a more dangerous right-wing force than the BNP could ever dream of becoming. When it comes to the Daily Mail, there's no point in trying to read between the lies because there's exactly 0% of truth in it. I guarantee you the story in the OP is pure bullshit, designed solely to stir nationalist sentiments and make people hate each other: "boo-hoo, we're being oppressed in our own country". Just forget about it. Really.

[bellyscratch]

I know the Daily Mail is total scum, but I've had abuse from Scottish people for being English before. We were in some small town outside of Edinburgh and a group of young locals realised we were English and it all kicked off! Most Scottish people obviously aren't like that though and the Daily Mail just like to stir shit up

[Killfacer]

It would have happend for anothe reason if she wasn't English. I'm sure most of us have been in the situation where someone just finds a reason for a fight no matter what (usually because everyone is completely pissed off their tits). Sure that was the reason given, but she probably would have got beaten up anyway.

[spartan]

Quite honestly I don't know much about the Daily Mail. Could you recommend any good United Kingdom sources for me?


The Guardian and the Independent are probably the best and most impartial of the mainstream papers, the rest are just right-wing Populist rags constantly whining on about Political Correctness and immigration and showing half-naked celebs with stories of their sex lives.

[Followthewhiterabbit]

As a scot I'm pretty disgusted at these neds. Unfortunately they exist everywhere in the UK. I don't think there real reason for fighting was because the girl was english, they are merely drunken thugs who wish to fight.

But I'm always equally disgusted at the way the Daily Mail reports things like this. They always blow things out of proportion and report as if all Scots want to destroy England or something, whereas the complete opposite is true. It was the same with the IRA, they never looked at why and only looked to stir-up the bandwagon. Unfortunately they've gotten quite good at it, as we seen with the whole Russell Brand / Johnathon Ross puritan witch-hunt situation. It amazes me that a newspaper could have so much power. :cursing:

Rant Over

[OneNamedNameLess]

:cursing:

Two things: the Daily Mail and more anti-English crap.

I abhor the Daily Mail but I am ashamed at yet another mindless anti-English incident. I don't know what the other Scottish users here will say, but a significant number of Scottish people's attitudes towards the English is appalling. It has infuriated me for years. They believe that the English have an unsavoury attitude towards us, and that this justifies their deplorable opinions. Where I go to uni I have witnessed a number of incidents, including one involving a friend, which have been triggered by the fact that someone is English. It is time for these idiots, who are strong in number, to forget the past.

I suppose I don't really have to comment on the Daily Mail as some of you have done a fantastic job condemning it :)

[Hit The North]

Quite honestly I don't know much about the Daily Mail. Could you recommend any good United Kingdom sources for me?



Socialist Worker, mate ;)

http://http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/ (http://http//www.socialistworker.co.uk/)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Not just in Scotland either - when I was living in Wales I was bullied for being a "Saes". While I consider myself British rather than English, I have a well-pronounced accent that some mistake for posh English, that made me stand out like a sore thumb among all the Welsh accents.

[spartan]

Not just in Scotland either - when I was living in Wales I was bullied for being a "Saes". While I consider myself British rather than English, I have a well-pronounced accent that some mistake for posh English, that made me stand out like a sore thumb among all the Welsh accents.

I am sorry to here that.

I wish people judged others on the way they generally are as people rather then their nationality (which is something they have absolutely no control over unlike the way they act).

[Rascolnikova]

It would have happend for anothe reason if she wasn't English. I'm sure most of us have been in the situation where someone just finds a reason for a fight no matter what (usually because everyone is completely pissed off their tits). Sure that was the reason given, but she probably would have got beaten up anyway.

Two against one substantially smaller than themselves (almost certainly the case here) isn't generally so much of a fight as a beating.

[Killfacer]

Two against one substantially smaller than themselves (almost certainly the case here) isn't generally so much of a fight as a beating.

Same thing, most scuffles in town centers are one sided. I'm trying to say that if they hadn't beaten up her for being English they would have beaten up some other girl for "dogging" them up.

[Sam_b]

I'm from Aberdeen myself, and actually it's quite surprising this has happened; seeing as we never had that much 'night out' trouble as compared to other cities in Scotland.

But seeing as we're on 'discrimination', I'm going to have a go at this:


I'm pretty disgusted at these neds

...and i'm slightly disappointed that nobody has picked up on this earlier.

The word 'ned', like 'chav' 'scally' etc is a loaded, generalistic and stereotypical term that is often used in a discriminatory way against young people from working class backgrounds. We're talking about areas that have been sold out by years of new-labourism and PFI schemes, where no money is allocated for social projects or giving young people a place to go and hang out in the evenings. When they have to meet in the parks at night, or on the streets due to lack of facilities they are moved on or branded as 'neds'. Similarly is young people that feel comfortable wearing tracksuits or sports fashion. The same terms.

Just scouting websites like 'chavscum' and the like they are full of disgusting abuse for people in these communities. Its like reading the Sun for crying out loud: the 'dole scum' chavs on benefits and drinking Buckfast and Thunderbird. These things have social causes, and is part of the cycle of poverty in many places in Britain.

I think any member on here that uses these terms should explain themselves.

[Socialist Scum]

Why did the mention the womans height at the end?

[RedAnarchist]

Why did the mention the womans height at the end?

Probably to emphasise that she was much smaller than the two men. Most men in the UK are much taller than 5 foot 3 (most women seem to be as well).

[Rascolnikova]

Same thing, most scuffles in town centers are one sided. I'm trying to say that if they hadn't beaten up her for being English they would have beaten up some other girl for "dogging" them up.

I see.

Perhaps we should be troubled by a culture in which this happens--where there are evenings where people simply will find an excuse to beat up someone--and if your statement is to be taken literally, this violence is targeted to women--and this is considered normal?

Also, what is dogging?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The word 'ned', like 'chav' 'scally' etc is a loaded, generalistic and stereotypical term that is often used in a discriminatory way against young people from working class backgrounds.

I'm a young person from a working class background, and yet, somehow, I manage to avoid making an antisocial nuisance of myself.

"Chav" et al are subcultures, and to associate them with the working class in general is to make the same sweeping generalisation that you accuse us of.


We're talking about areas that have been sold out by years of new-labourism and PFI schemes, where no money is allocated for social projects or giving young people a place to go and hang out in the evenings. When they have to meet in the parks at night, or on the streets due to lack of facilities they are moved on or branded as 'neds'.If hanging around in parks and on the streets was the only thing they did, they wouldn't have such a reputation.


Similarly is young people that feel comfortable wearing tracksuits or sports fashion. The same terms.Again, you are making the same generalisation that you accuse us of. Tracksuit wearing alone does not a chav make. I've worn a tracksuit myself, for goodness' sake, yet I'm the furthest thing from a chav.


Just scouting websites like 'chavscum' and the like they are full of disgusting abuse for people in these communities.Considering that chavs have been known to engage in such activities as "happy slapping" and intimidating passers-by, invective on the internet is a surprisingly mild response.


Its like reading the Sun for crying out loud: the 'dole scum' chavs on benefits and drinking Buckfast and Thunderbird. These things have social causes, and is part of the cycle of poverty in many places in Britain.
Considering that there are plenty of poor people who are not chavs, and who don't say "what the fuck are you looking at?!" to people who happen to glance at them (among other things), I would say that the cause lies elsewhere.

And speaking as someone who's spent a long time recieving benefits, let me just say that I would never be able to afford the stuff some chavs have. Like kitted-out cars with subwoofers the size of Penge.


I think any member on here that uses these terms should explain themselves.Why? So they can stroke your massive hard-on for making excuses for antisocial idiots?

[TC]

Oh please. This was reported in the DAILY MAIL. She's probably some kind of english nationalist who just made it up to the DAILY MAIL and some other english nationalist at the DAILY MAIL assumed it was made up but thought their english naitonalist readers would enjoy it.

[Sam_b]

"Chav" et al are subcultures, and to associate them with the working class in general is to make the same sweeping generalisation that you accuse us of.

You have a poor understanding of social causes. Why do the majority of these 'chavs' come from working class areas, and are associated with hallmarks of social deprivation?

Its kind of like prostitution: the majority of people in socially deprived areas are not prostitutes, but the majority of prostitutes come from these communities. Why?


If hanging around in parks and on the streets was the only thing they did, they wouldn't have such a reputation.

In the Scottish Parliament youth crime debates, several Labour MSPs referred to these young people as 'neds' and Margaret Curran labelled those who hang out at parks and streets after dark 'a threat'. Your sentence merely condones what their rhetoric.


Again, you are making the same generalisation that you accuse us of. Tracksuit wearing alone does not a chav make. I've worn a tracksuit myself, for goodness' sake, yet I'm the furthest thing from a chav.

I agree. Yet the generalisations and stereotypes originating from the term label all tracksuit wearers as being 'yobs'. The stereotype ecquates to young people who hang about after dark, wearing tracksuits or imitation burberry, and often aren't violent. Those who perpetuate the term often come from areas of relative wealth or privilege.


Considering that chavs have been known to engage in such activities as "happy slapping" and intimidating passers-by, invective on the internet is a surprisingly mild response.

So you are defending these websites? The same 'chavscum' website that referrs to a tight bun hairdo as a 'council estate facelift'?


I would say that the cause lies elsewhere.

I would refer you to my first response.


let me just say that I would never be able to afford the stuff some chavs have. Like kitted-out cars with subwoofers the size of Penge.

Thank you for proving my point. A lot of this stereotype comes from what is labelled as 'chav culture': Burberry, tracksuits, and tooled up cars.


Why? So they can stroke your massive hard-on for making excuses for antisocial idiots?

What a morinic thing to say. In no way am I defending 'antisocial idiots': I would argue that this often comes from a cycle of deprivation. What I am rallying against is the se of a term that is used to broadly attack the working class and to attack young people who may take up elements of what is seen as 'chav culture' (again, the tracksuits, the burberry, and the like). These websites, what is ingrained to us in the papers, is an image of a 'ned' or a 'chav' as someone who hangs out after dark, wears tracksuits, and drinks buckfast. See the reports on Chavscum by the Daily Mail, for example. Its just like when the Tories go on the assualt against the unemployed, labelling them as 'benefits cheats' and 'scroungers'. They use a label which is extendable and used to attack a vast multitude of people. It is absolutely ridiculous, and exactly the same bullshit that is perpetuated by the Sun, The Express, and the Daily Mail. By using the term 'ned' and 'chav' you are merely enforcing right-wing concepts and I think its outrageous.

The use of this catch-all term merely shows up the user's inability to see the social causes and is a lazy, lazy way of addressing the problems of antisocial behaviour.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You have a poor understanding of social causes. Why do the majority of these 'chavs' come from working class areas, and are associated with hallmarks of social deprivation?

Do they? I wouldn't know, since I haven't taken a comprehensive survey of all "chavs". But obviously it seems you have. Would you mind sharing the results with us?


Its kind of like prostitution: the majority of people in socially deprived areas are not prostitutes, but the majority of prostitutes come from these communities. Why?Being a prostitute is a job that brings in much-needed money, being a chav isn't. You can't compare the two.


In the Scottish Parliament youth crime debates, several Labour MSPs referred to these young people as 'neds' and Margaret Curran labelled those who hang out at parks and streets after dark 'a threat'. Your sentence merely condones what their rhetoric.No it doesn't. As my sentence implied, there is nothing wrong in merely hanging around in parks and on the streets, at whatever time.


I agree. Yet the generalisations and stereotypes originating from the term label all tracksuit wearers as being 'yobs'. The stereotype ecquates to young people who hang about after dark, wearing tracksuits or imitation burberry, and often aren't violent.Maybe the majority aren't, but the fact remains that are enough of the violent ones to sully the reputation of the rest. It's not as if the reputation of the chav came from nowhere.


Those who perpetuate the term often come from areas of relative wealth or privilege.That doesn't excuse the behaviour of violent chavs.


So you are defending these websites? The same 'chavscum' website that referrs to a tight bun hairdo as a 'council estate facelift'?Since they're limiting their activities to anonymous insults on the internet, I really don't see why I should give a shit. Personally I think such websites are a waste of time, but if people want to waste their time in such a manner, who am I to tell them what to do?


I would refer you to my first response.Simply telling me I have a "poor understanding" is a pretty crappy response. I pointed out that the majority of poor people manage to avoid acting like macho idiots, and you avoid the implications of that.


Thank you for proving my point. A lot of this stereotype comes from what is labelled as 'chav culture': Burberry, tracksuits, and tooled up cars. Yes, they're so poor and deprived they can afford to buy cars, pay insurance on them, pay maintenance and MOT, and in addition tool them up. Get a clue; "chav culture" is not synonymous with poverty or deprivation; it's a lifestyle/subculture, and is far from immune to criticism.


What a morinic thing to say. In no way am I defending 'antisocial idiots': I would argue that this often comes from a cycle of deprivation."Deprivation" makes one violent for the sake of it?! Are you fucking high? Please elaborate on this startling sociological discovery of yours.


What I am rallying against is the se of a term that is used to broadly attack the working class and to attack young people who may take up elements of what is seen as 'chav culture' (again, the tracksuits, the burberry, and the like).Sorry, but since not all working class folk or young people are "chavs", an attack on chavs does not consitute an attack on the working class or young people as a whole.

That's as ridiculous as claiming that attacking goths, mods, emos, rockers, or any other subculture you care to name is the same as attacking the working class or young people.


These websites, what is ingrained to us in the papers, is an image of a 'ned' or a 'chav' as someone who hangs out after dark, wears tracksuits, and drinks buckfast. See the reports on Chavscum by the Daily Mail, for example. Its just like when the Tories go on the assualt against the unemployed, labelling them as 'benefits cheats' and 'scroungers'. They use a label which is extendable and used to attack a vast multitude of people. It is absolutely ridiculous, and exactly the same bullshit that is perpetuated by the Sun, The Express, and the Daily Mail. By using the term 'ned' and 'chav' you are merely enforcing right-wing concepts and I think its outrageous.Since I'm not a right-wing idiot, and have pretty much constantly pointed out that chav =/= working class/young person, you are talking bollocks.

The right-wing perpetuate their stereotypes with or without my use of the term, including your histrionic screeching.


The use of this catch-all term merely shows up the user's inability to see the social causes and is a lazy, lazy way of addressing the problems of antisocial behaviour.I do realise that chavs aren't the only ones who engage in antisocial behaviour, you know. And I'm not so simple-minded as to claim "chavs are the problem, get rid of the chavs, no more problem".

[bawbag]

being from one of the poorest areas in Scotland, These things happen alot, it is very unlikely that she was beaten up for being English, these people will attack virtually anybody for no reason atall, the fact that she is english would just have been an excuse or something the newspapers add on. i was playin snooker with my dads mate from manchester a couple of weeks ago when a couple of people came in who were about my age. He went to the bar and one of them turned round and said 'whatd you say er?' he said 'nothin' 'talkin to him wur ye?' was his reply, they were constantly looking over at us for the rest of the night, he was sure that the climax of their night was going to be 'Kick fuck oot the Englishmen' as he called it. just the bollocks that comes along with it round here, and the fact that they were drinking and taking drugs in the middle of the room didnt help our paranoia

it wasnt because he was english, these neds find anyreason to start ficghts or to attack anybody, its the way it goes around here, i recognised those guys and remember seein them round the back of my house with golf clubs, and the weren't goin up the golfie, thats for sure

[Killfacer]

I see.

Perhaps we should be troubled by a culture in which this happens--where there are evenings where people simply will find an excuse to beat up someone--and if your statement is to be taken literally, this violence is targeted to women--and this is considered normal?

Also, what is dogging?

We should be troubled by it yes.

When you "dog" someone up, it means you stare at them in an aggressive way. It's a commonly used term in England, although i try to refrain from using it because it sounds stupid. It's the kind of word a drunken prick would use when he/she is about to kick off.

[BPSocialist]

Oh please. This was reported in the DAILY MAIL. She's probably some kind of english nationalist who just made it up to the DAILY MAIL and some other english nationalist at the DAILY MAIL assumed it was made up but thought their english naitonalist readers would enjoy it.

Actually it was reported in the Times aswell

[Jazzratt]

We should be troubled by it yes.

When you "dog" someone up, it means you stare at them in an aggressive way. It's a commonly used term in England, although i try to refrain from using it because it sounds stupid. It's the kind of word a drunken prick would use when he/she is about to kick off.

I always thought dogging was where you shag in a car.

[Dr Mindbender]

Not that i condone beating up anyone en number, but it doesnt actually give the account of the accused person.

Perhaps this person was acting in a deliberately provocative manner, which wouldnt be surprising given their inebriated state and the general self celebratory culture whence she was raised.

All i'm saying is if you annoy people round the tough streets of Scotland dont be surprised when you end up on the floor- or worse.

[Killfacer]

I always thought dogging was where you shag in a car.

To go "dogging" is having sex in public places (often in cars) and hope people will be watching. To "dog" someone up means what i said.

Maybe it's just a bristolian thing.

[Killfacer]

My bad (edit)

[Zurdito]

it is naive to say the word "chav" is only ever applied to anti-social people. quite often in Britain, anyone who appears culturally working class is referred to as a chav, especially if a young person. most people called chavs have never committed violence.

I agree we should not defend genuine lumpens who beat youngwomen for fun though. such people are a disgrace and hated by the working class, and in no way represent them. such people exist in most societies and are hated by the working class, and are highly reactionary.

[BPSocialist]

it is naive to say the word "chav" is only ever applied to anti-social people. quite often in Britain, anyone who appears culturally working class is referred to as a chav, especially if a young person. most people called chavs have never committed violence.

I agree we should not defend genuine lumpens who beat youngwomen for fun though. such people are a disgrace and hated by the working class, and in no way represent them. such people exist in most societies and are hated by the working class, and are highly reactionary.

Also, since before the 1980's (before the whole hoody and traksuit craze) the word "chav", "chavy" or "chavster" was in some parts of the country, a nickname for any child (I refur you to Delboy off Only Fools and Horses).

But I agree with Zurdito, we shouldn't condem anyone who wears a traksuit and hoody, only the antisocial ones (we have plenty of these on our street. They really don't look very healthy, all thin and pale because of drug addictions, binge drinking etc. etc. infact the ones who wear black hoodys look like the grim reaper:))

[Killfacer]

Also, since before the 1980's (before the whole hoody and traksuit craze) the word "chav", "chavy" or "chavster" was in some parts of the country, a nickname for any child (I refur you to Delboy off Only Fools and Horses).

But I agree with Zurdito, we shouldn't condem anyone who wears a traksuit and hoody, only the antisocial ones (we have plenty of these on our street. They really don't look very healthy, all thin and pale because of drug addictions, binge drinking etc. etc. infact the ones who wear black hoodys look like the grim reaper:))

I'll comdemn anyone wearing a tracksuit, no matter what class they are.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

We should be troubled by it yes.

When you "dog" someone up, it means you stare at them in an aggressive way. It's a commonly used term in England, although i try to refrain from using it because it sounds stupid. It's the kind of word a drunken prick would use when he/she is about to kick off.

Here were you stare at somone aggressively its "evils"

[Killfacer]

Here were you stare at somone aggressively its "evils"

We got that here too, but people prefer dogging up. I here with suprising regularity:

"She's been givin me evils"

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

We got that here too, but people prefer dogging up. I here with suprising regularity:

"She's been givin me evils"

Dogging up must be a bristol thing.

[Pogue]

Dogging up must be a bristol thing.

I've never heard it here. Down here dogging refers to some sort of sex doesn't it?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I've never heard it here. Down here dogging refers to some sort of sex doesn't it?

Yeah like killerfacer said its when you fuck in public in the hope people come and watch you. But aparently dogging up means giving evils.

[BPSocialist]

Could dogging up mean getting ready for screwing someone in a public place? As in kitting up.