Greeks "Nostalgic For The Dictatorship"

[Mindtoaster]

Commentary on the Greek situation by petite-bourgeois idiots, from the BBC


The diminutive middle-aged woman protester did not conform to the "central casting" image of the average Greek demonstrator.
Wearing sensible shoes and a brown raincoat, Myrto Dracopoulou was dwarfed by burly police officers as she stood outside Athens' Red Cross hospital.
But four weeks' repressed anger, from witnessing the worst civil unrest in Greece since the fall of the colonels' dictatorship 35 years ago, suddenly spilled over into a stream of outraged consciousness.
The trigger that compelled Mrs Dracopoulou to abandon the sitting room of her home in a quiet northern Athenian suburb for the freezing street, was the attempted murder of 21-year-old Diamantis Matzounis, a policemen shot in a machine-gun attack allegedly linked to a left-wing militant group called Revolutionary Struggle.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif When I see these things, I feel nostalgic for the dictatorship http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Myrto Dracopoulou

She had come to the Red Cross hospital to show solidarity with the police force, which has faced constant protest since a policeman shot dead 15-year-old Alexis Grigoropoulos on 6 December.
"We are the silent majority," she said. "We don't want this rebellion."
She said the Greek state seemed incapable of controlling "these anarchists, these anti-authority people, these terrorists, who have been doing whatever they want, unpunished, for years and years and years".
"I am sick and tired of being afraid to go into the centre of my city, Athens, because of some demonstration," she added.
She said the disrespect for authority was instilled in schools, where "young people are being brainwashed by these extremist leftist parties", and said even her sister's kindergarten pupils had taken to calling policemen "pigs".
'Ground zero'
For a reaction to those comments, I turned to George Kypraios, a resident of Exarchia, the Bohemian district of Athens where both Grigoropoulos and Matzounis were shot.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45361000/jpg/_45361375_-11.jpg Sympathetic Greeks have built a shrine to Alexis Grigoropoulos

His apartment overlooks what he calls "ground zero", or to give its proper name, the Athens Polytechnic, a haven for anarchists and students who have been fomenting Greece's social uprising.
"She is talking nonsense," said Mr Kypraios.
"What you would expect from a supporter of LAOS," he said, referring to Greece's small ultra-right-wing nationalist party, which has 10 deputies in the 300-seat parliament.
He said Exarchia had been outraged by "the futility and absurdity" of the teenager's death, but that the protests, which have often ended up in running battles between rioters and police, had gone too far.
"The small number of troublemakers who have besmirched Greece's reputation globally must not be allowed to hide behind their hoods," he said.
"The police have the resources and the legal framework to deal with the situation. If there were orders to avoid arrests during the original disturbances, time to rescind those.
"I am tired of a tiny minority destroying the international image of our city and country, which we so carefully and painstakingly re-built since the restoration of democracy in 1974. Enough!"
Nostalgia
This week, the police unions blamed the government for the climate that enabled someone to shoot Diamantis Matzounis. They said the order to act defensively as the riots began had enabled the security situation to spiral out of control.



On Thursday, after overseeing the first meeting of his reshuffled cabinet, Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis promised to crack down on the "phenomenon of catastrophic violence".
His new public order minister pledged a zero-tolerance policy towards crime.
Will this satisfy Myrto Dracopoulou?
"This government is very weak. I have talked to many people of my generation and they look back on the dictatorship with some nostalgia because we had a quiet life," she says.
"It's not the answer, I know. It is not right to say that, but when I see these things, I feel nostalgic for the dictatorship. I was not afraid to walk in the streets. I am afraid of the thugs now."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7820695.stm
:glare:

[rednordman]

I dont know much about greece's politics, but it seems to me that the left are alot more vocal and powerfull than the right. Its interesting that someone on the BBC has decided to miss out most of the anarchists, to interview some idot who, by the looks of things, is standing on her own, in a much smaller far-right (i may be wrong about this though, but 10 seats in 300 is nothing to shout about).

[Comrade B]

Got to love how the capitalist media will give voice to that 1/30th of Greece and act like it represents the common thought of a country's people

[Bilan]

haha, what a stupid article.

[Mindtoaster]

haha, what a stupid article.

Indeed

The BBC had some pretty good coverage of the events in Greece previously.

[Sawtooth]

The "silent majority" is one of the biggest lies in the world.

"Hey, let's take people who are too busy working (or doing whatever with their lives) to take an active interest in politics and say they agree with it."

I'm glad I'm very vocal about my politics so no one will try to lump me into some made-up "silent majority."

[Pogue]

That woman is typical of the unimaginative passive cowards who will sacrifice lives and freedom for the comfort they get from having a good job and no political; expression. She is ignorant and idiotic and has no grasp on history, politics or basic common sense.

[Angry Young Man]

If it didn't make me so depressed, it would make me roflpmlol

[cyu]

I feel nostalgic for the dictatorship


This coming from a media organization structured like a dictatorship?

[JimmyJazz]

That woman is typical of the unimaginative passive cowards who will sacrifice lives and freedom for the comfort they get from having a good job and no political; expression. She is ignorant and idiotic and has no grasp on history, politics or basic common sense.

Not really. Mindtoaster is closer to the truth in pointing out that her statements simply reflect her class position.

When people aren't affected by the same immiseration that is causing a rebellion, then they are confused by the rebellion, and scared of it. The only thought they have about it is "will I or the people I love get hurt during this?". It's true that their chances of getting hurt probably have slightly risen amidst the turmoil, yet they don't stand to gain anything if the rebellion succeeds, so it's logical that they would be generally opposed to the uprising.

[Mindtoaster]

Not really. Mindtoaster is closer to the truth in pointing out that her statements simply reflect her class position.

When people aren't affected by the same immiseration that is causing a rebellion, then they are confused by the rebellion, and scared of it. The only thought they have about it is "will I or the people I love get hurt during this?". It's true that their chances of getting hurt probably have slightly risen amidst the turmoil, yet they don't stand to gain anything if the rebellion succeeds, so it's logical that they would be generally opposed to the uprising.

I'm not sure I would say that the petit-bourgeois would gain nothing from revolution. A socialist society would provide economic security, something the majority of the middle-class has.

Also, unlike with the bourgeois it is not guaranteed that the offspring of a petit-bourgeois will grow up to be petit-bourgeois. They often wind up as proleterians.

(Not that I'm saying that the situation in Greece is an attempt to establish socialism)

[GeezAF]

And my history teacher had the nerve to say the BBC are "shockingly left-wing".

HA!

[Mindtoaster]

And my history teacher had the nerve to say the BBC are "shockingly left-wing".

HA!

They're normally pretty fair and unbalanced actually.

[Enragé]

Another union building occupied in greece, apparently they're not so nostalgic for the dictatorship after all :P

“The workers will have the last word - not the media bosses”
Tuesday, January 13, 2009
First statement coming out of the newly-occupied building of the (reformist) Union of Journalists in Athens (ESIEA). In a similar manner to the earlier occupation of the general confederation of workers’ bulding, people have now occupied the Journalists’ union to denounce mainstream media lies.

The occupation’s blog is here - the first statement follows.

The thousands of protesters that filled the streets in Greece on Friday January 9th, proved that the fire of December wonʼt be put out, not by bullets and acid against activists, nor by the ideological terrorism spread by the media these last few days. Consequently, the Stateʼs only response to the youth and the workers was, once more, raw repression. Encouraged by the mediaʼs demands of zero tolerance, and by the orders of their bosses, the police were free to attack with chemicals, violence and arrests, against anyone who came their way.

When, as on January 9thoppression by the State turns even against the workers, journalists, photographers and lawyers who stand in the streets against the side of the murderers, it becomes even clearer that the rebellion during the past month has put forward an issue of dignity for everyone whose survival depends on wage labor. As a result, some of us, media workers and students, stand beside the rebels. We do it actively: we participate in their fight as workers, and we join their fight with our own everyday battle in our places of work. Our main goal is to prevent the bosses from imposing their views about the events, an example of which is that a photographer, Kostas Tsironis, was fired by the daily newspaper “Eleftheros Typos” (“Free press”) because he took a picture of a cop raising his handgun a day after the 15-year old Alexandros Grigoropoulos was murdered.

We donʼt fool ourselves about what the media, a crucial ideology apparatus of the State, will do to force the people to leave the streets and go home; theyʼll do everything, and we know it all too well, because, of course, we work in the media. We also recognize that the big-time journalists are only able to promote the abolition of university asylum and the idea of two different kinds of demonstrators (the violent “koukouloforoi” vs. the “peaceful” ones), as long as we remain silent.

Our place is with the rebels. One more reason for this is because we experience everyday exploitation in our workplaces too. In the media industry, like everywhere else, we have to deal with the consequences of precarious, unsecured or unpaid labour, by-piece working, overtime labor, and all the other forms of bossesʼ whims. Lately, under the threat of a coming economic crisis, we also experience intensification of layoffs, and of the fear of them.

Like all workers, we experience the hypocrisy and the betrayal of the syndicates. The Journalistsʼ Union of Athens (ESIEA) is an institution that turns against the workersʼ calls for resistance against the bosses, due to the crucial need to overcome any internal divisions and job fragmentation, in order to create a united trade union in the press. In their attempt to split the media workers from all the other workers, ESIEA is, in reality, a bossesʼ union and a basic support mechanism for them, as was testified by their refusal to take part in the general strike on Wednesday, December 10th 2008.

For all these reasons, as an initiative of wage workers, unpaid workers, recently-fired workers and students in the media, we have decided to occupy the ESIEA building, in order to voice all these things, in solidarity with a society in revolt:

Free information, against the ideological propaganda of our bosses in the media

Direct action, self-organized and democratic, by all media workers against the attacks waged against each and every one of us.

* Solidarity with militant worker Konstantina Kuneva

* Immediate release of everyone arrested during the rebellion

* We have no fear of getting fired; the bosses should fear our strikes

From the occupied building of ESIEA, 2009-01-10

source: http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/

[BobKKKindle$]

The BBC isn't being unbalanced in this case. The title of this thread is a quote taken directly from a person who was interviewed in Greece. We should expect a woman of petty-bourgeois social origin to long for the return of a semi-fascist dictatorship during a period of major social unrest and economic upheaval, because the petty-bourgeoisie has historically served as the main social base of fascist movements, at least before these movements gain the mass support of the working class as well as the financial backing of the bourgeoisie. This derives from the fact that the petty-bourgeoisie does not have the same experience of solidarity and collective action as the working class, and so are more likely to turn to a nationalist party when they are faced with the threat of being forced into the ranks of the proletariat, as often occurs during recessions, instead of seeking a progressive solution. I tend to agree that the BBC is one of the more balanced media networks, especially on Palestine.

On a side note, we're going to be having a meeting soon at university involving a student who's come over from Greece to talk about what's been happening, and I'm really looking forward to it!

[Enragé]

Though i agree in principle with what you say bobkindles, the fact that out of the enormous amount of people the BBC could have interviewed they interviewed a member of a far right party, and then claiming "Greeks are nostalgic for the dictatorship" is indicative of the BBC's bias. You don't see them interviewing members of the anti-authoritarian movement, or those directly involved in the organising of popular assemblies now do you.. even though that's where the struggle is in fact taking place.

In other words, the BBC covers the reaction to the movement, not the movement itself.

[JimmyJazz]

(Not that I'm saying that the situation in Greece is an attempt to establish socialism)

No, probably not, but I honestly haven't even been following it closely.

I just think it's funny that people often see a word like "petite-bourgeois" as an ad hom, whereas calling someone "ignorant and having no grasp on history or politics" is seen by some as making a substantive point. I see calling a person or argument petite-bourgeois, if used correctly, as a much deeper (class) analysis than to simply call someone ignorant.

Anyway, this is revleft, I am preaching to the choir.

[Mindtoaster]

Though i agree in principle with what you say bobkindles, the fact that out of the enormous amount of people the BBC could have interviewed they interviewed a member of a far right party, and then claiming "Greeks are nostalgic for the dictatorship" is indicative of the BBC's bias. You don't see them interviewing members of the anti-authoritarian movement, or those directly involved in the organising of popular assemblies now do you.. even though that's where the struggle is in fact taking place.

In other words, the BBC covers the reaction to the movement, not the movement itself.

Well, they actually did do an article earlier called "Anarchists are Simply Misunderstood", which sympathized with the protesters (including the anarchist) and basically took the position of saying "its good to see the youth getting actively involved in making this world a better place".

I was essentially attacking this petit-bourgeois woman's position on longing for fascism. I think it is pretty relevant to the situation in greece, as historically the main base of support for fascism comes from the petit-bourgeois.
Social psychologist Erich Fromm writes about this extensivly in "Escape from Freedom"

A Greek friend of mine who lives in Athens told me recently that he thinks there is going to be another civil war, though he is probably just being dramatic. Never the less we should probably keep an eye on people taking such positions mentioned in the article


I just think it's funny that people often see a word like "petite-bourgeois" as an ad hom, whereas calling someone "ignorant and having no grasp on history or politics" is seen by some as making a substantive point. I see calling a person or argument petite-bourgeois, if used correctly, as a much deeper (class) analysis than to simply call someone ignorant.

Indeed, and if this is of interest to anyone, I strongly reccomend the book I mentioned above. It delves deeply into fascist psycology and the petit-bourgeois base that supports it.

[optimist]

what bbc does with this article is what greek media do for over a month.in every tv panel there is a loud passionate representative of laos,the far-wing party,even though it has only 4% of the voters.because of their extreme proposals they start a fight on air so a lot of viewers watch the channel news.they say things like "parents should not allowed their kids to go on demonstrations,otherwise its their fault if they get killed",or "turks and americans secret services are behind the riots" and "if you throw a rock to riot police it is legitimate to shoot you".they want the policemen and their families votes,thats why they support police brutality and thats why they feel nostalgic for junta.the government's party ,nea dimokratia,struggling for a rise in gallops,hardened its stance against the demonstrators in last week's demonstration wanting to take some of laos voters.