Collector's value in a socialist society

[Psy]

Okay since the board lost some posts I'll re-post this from scratch.


So a commodity gets collector's value by being sought after while being in limited supply, usually this happens because people project emotional value on a discontinued commodity, for example while it might not be their plush toy from when they were a kid the fact it is similar allows them to project their childhood onto that product so collector's value doesn't really debunk LTV since it is a result of commodity fetishism causing consumers to project their fantasies onto the product outside the normal determining factors of exchange value.

So how does this work in a socialist society? Well at first glance it doesn't, without money there would be no one taking advantage of those seeking products of one's youth, yet that doesn't necessarily mean that products of ones youth would would be in abundance in a socialist society. For example lets say there is a popular children's TV show under socialism, the artists eventually stop making new episodes since they get bored of the show, the show lives on for a few more years in re-runs but then its core audience grows out of the show and the products linked to the show (ie plush toys), a decade or so later the same core audience now is nostalgic over their childhood and some after watching the show again seeks out the products linked to the show, now since a socialist society doesn't have unlimited storing capacity it means warehouses can't just store everything not currently in demand on the off chance people start demanding some of it again thus stock probably be recycled to make room for stock that is in demand. So a socialist society could run into the issue of scarce old products that are sought after at least as far as I can figure, how a socialist society would deal with this I haven't figured out yet, sure it would be easy to make a show easily available thanks to bit-torrent and the fact DVDs are not that hard to produce yet products associated to a old show I'm not to sure about.

[Sawtooth]

If it's information, then it's already free due to the internet. So if anyone wants to watch an old show, I'm sure any self-respecting, well-funded, high-tech socialist government would have a sizeable bit torrent (or direct connect) network for the dissemination of information (and TV shows).

As for actual goods -- such as your example, plush animals -- that's a bit trickier. I imagine people could create interest groups to track commodities. For example, there are a lot of collectibles sold on ebay -- such as action figures, old cars, first edition books, whatever -- usually by people who have them and are trying to get rid of them and possibly make a few bucks. However, I get the feeling that most people selling them are simply trying to get rid of them, so this fits with socialism nicely. Since all you're doing is trying to get rid of an item, all we need is some sort of "freebay" model wherein people post items they're trying to get rid of and other people order them. It'd be just like modern ebay but without money -- and since everyone gets their needs settled by society, they have no reason to make money off of selling their property and can afford to give it away for free to someone who wants it more than they do.

As for actual production of "limited editions" and "collector's editions" and such things... I doubt a socialist society will have any reason to make them. Because there won't be planned obsolescence or a need to make people buy the same thing several times there will be no need to try and create false scarcity.

[Psy]

If it's information, then it's already free due to the internet. So if anyone wants to watch an old show, I'm sure any self-respecting, well-funded, high-tech socialist government would have a sizeable bit torrent (or direct connect) network for the dissemination of information (and TV shows).

Right, what is considered piracy now would be a key distribution method under socialism.



As for actual goods -- such as your example, plush animals -- that's a bit trickier. I imagine people could create interest groups to track commodities. For example, there are a lot of collectibles sold on ebay -- such as action figures, old cars, first edition books, whatever -- usually by people who have them and are trying to get rid of them and possibly make a few bucks. However, I get the feeling that most people selling them are simply trying to get rid of them, so this fits with socialism nicely. Since all you're doing is trying to get rid of an item, all we need is some sort of "freebay" model wherein people post items they're trying to get rid of and other people order them. It'd be just like modern ebay but without money -- and since everyone gets their needs settled by society, they have no reason to make money off of selling their property and can afford to give it away for free to someone who wants it more than they do.

Right but there could still be scarcity with people too lazy to check to see if there is new interest in the products they stuffed in their basement and having warehouses deal with it means more stock gets recycled thus more scarcity if there is a nostalgic craze for certain products. Warehouses don't have unlimited space so it would be logical for warehouses to look at stock that at that time doesn't move anymore and assume it won't every move (at a rate reasonable for the size of their stock) and ship chunks of the surplus off to recyclers hell if a warehouse has a sizable surplus of sealed stock then odds are all incoming used stock would get recycled only leaving used stock not given back to warehouses and what stock warehouses decided to keep.



As for actual production of "limited editions" and "collector's editions" and such things... I doubt a socialist society will have any reason to make them. Because there won't be planned obsolescence or a need to make people buy the same thing several times there will be no need to try and create false scarcity.
No argument there.

[Sawtooth]

Right, what is considered piracy now would be a key distribution method under socialism.

Ideally, in fact, it would be the one of the only distribution methods of media (besides live showings). After all, it's much more efficient to just get everyone a computer and a big hard drive than to get everyone a mountain of DVDs, CDs, books, et cetera which require resources to produce and must be replaced.


Right but there could still be scarcity with people too lazy to check to see if there is new interest in the products they stuffed in their basement and having warehouses deal with it means more stock gets recycled thus more scarcity if there is a nostalgic craze for certain products. Warehouses don't have unlimited space so it would be logical for warehouses to look at stock that at that time doesn't move anymore and assume it won't every move (at a rate reasonable for the size of their stock) and ship chunks of the surplus off to recyclers hell if a warehouse has a sizable surplus of sealed stock then odds are all incoming used stock would get recycled only leaving used stock not given back to warehouses and what stock warehouses decided to keep.

Well of course there will still be scarcity -- as I understand it, one of the main reasons to collect things as a hobby is that they are scarce. You collect specific things because they aren't common -- someone who just keeps random stuff isn't really a "collector" in the traditional sense. I guess to try and equally mete out who gets what collectible you could set up some sort of lottery, though gambling is capitalism, after all. It'd be much more like a door prize sort of thing than our modern capitalist lottery, though.

I wasn't actually suggesting the use of warehouses -- I don't really think this is something the government has to get involved in at all, in fact. A bunch of collectors could just set up an organization in their free time. Maybe to encourage people to give up their stuff they could organize a sort of community yard sale (though of course it wouldn't really be a sale but you know what I mean) with an emphasis on recycling whatever people aren't interested in.

[Psy]

Ideally, in fact, it would be the one of the only distribution methods of media (besides live showings). After all, it's much more efficient to just get everyone a computer and a big hard drive than to get everyone a mountain of DVDs, CDs, books, et cetera which require resources to produce and must be replaced.

There still be people that would demand box sets. Then there would cable TV as artists that produce programs with high production values probably want to it be shown on cable TV were there is more centralized audience and they can make big deal about first runs on TV (being able to get bigger hype over the first TV airing then the first Internet release), same with movies with high production values wanting it to be run first in theaters. Even in a socialist society having your work on TV or in theaters would probably still be much bigger deal then just having your work on the Internet.



Well of course there will still be scarcity -- as I understand it, one of the main reasons to collect things as a hobby is that they are scarce. You collect specific things because they aren't common -- someone who just keeps random stuff isn't really a "collector" in the traditional sense. I guess to try and equally mete out who gets what collectible you could set up some sort of lottery, though gambling is capitalism, after all. It'd be much more like a door prize sort of thing than our modern capitalist lottery, though.

Yhea they are not a collector in the traditional sense but there are still collecting commodities.



I wasn't actually suggesting the use of warehouses -- I don't really think this is something the government has to get involved in at all, in fact. A bunch of collectors could just set up an organization in their free time. Maybe to encourage people to give up their stuff they could organize a sort of community yard sale (though of course it wouldn't really be a sale but you know what I mean) with an emphasis on recycling whatever people aren't interested in.
Well warehouses would be involved regardless, what collectors call "New Old Stock" is stock that warehouses held onto for whatever reason then later dumped onto the market when the product has long been discontinued. Whatever system you are under there is going to sudden drops in demand that leaves warehouses with stock they can't move at that time, what warehouses do with that stock effects the supply of that product if there is ever a rival in demand.

Also having stores take back unwanted products does allow for demand to be meet with second hand goods, this of course does not solve people giving stores products that most people don't want and when warehouses also have too much stock of.

[Sawtooth]

There still be people that would demand box sets. Then there would cable TV as artists that produce programs with high production values probably want to it be shown on cable TV were there is more centralized audience and they can make big deal about first runs on TV (being able to get bigger hype over the first TV airing then the first Internet release), same with movies with high production values wanting it to be run first in theaters. Even in a socialist society having your work on TV or in theaters would probably still be much bigger deal then just having your work on the Internet.

I dunno. I think under capitalism we're already reaching the end of solid media. The only one I really think we should keep is books. DVDs are bad for the environment and require industrial capacity to make -- industrial capacity that could be used for more useful things.

Besides, everything comes out on the internet first already.

[Psy]

I dunno. I think under capitalism we're already reaching the end of solid media. The only one I really think we should keep is books. DVDs are bad for the environment and require industrial capacity to make -- industrial capacity that could be used for more useful things.

Besides, everything comes out on the internet first already.
Have you noticed the growth of DVD box sets and how fans demands shows they are fans of get a proper DVD box sets?