how do you feel about south africa?

[darwinist atheist]

Hi, all.
This is my first visit to this site, and first thing that caught my eye in your posting rules, is that you don't allow flaming, so i'm looking forward to a nice, constructive, and civil debate..
Right....
So,..what are your opinions on the current state of affairs in South-Africa, and what role do you think the SACP has had in the failure or success of South-Africa in relation to your opinion?

Just in case you were curious, I am a white afrikaner male..

I'm eagerly awaiting your responses..:)

[jake williams]

The SACP, sorry to say, just doesn't mean much anymore. It's not really a communist party and it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of South African politics.

The current state of affairs in South Africa is pretty grim. In a lot of ways it's a hell of a lot better, but there are big problems that the political changes have prevented from being solved. The basic idea is if there's a black leadership black people don't actually matter, and that needs to be changed.

[Killfacer]

Well the leader in waiting Jacob Zuma has dodgy veiws on how you get aids. Definatly not what Africa needs at the moment. I think South Africa has renegaded on a lot of it's responsibilities as the wealthiest sub saharan african nation.

[Hiero]

I think the youth wing of the SACP has alot to offer if it follows through with it's enthusiasm. Are you a member of the SACP?

[darwinist atheist]

The SACP, sorry to say, just doesn't mean much anymore. It's not really a communist party and it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of South African politics.

The current state of affairs in South Africa is pretty grim. In a lot of ways it's a hell of a lot better, but there are big problems that the political changes have prevented from being solved. The basic idea is if there's a black leadership black people don't actually matter, and that needs to be changed.
It's interesting that you acknowledge that the SACP is barely communist. I doubt that they ever were. As you know, the ANC and the SACP have been in cahoots since the beginning, which leads one rightly believe that their sensibilities are pretty much black nationalist.
I believe they merely fronted as a communist organisation to have access to Soviet and Cuban support and funding.
You're right with the situation being grim. I should know, I live there..:crying:
Where is it better? I dunno...I guess it depends on who's looking...
The thing with South-Africa is, there is lots of idealism, but the population as a collective simply do not have the fortitude, the discipline, or the knowhow to follow through with these "ideals"...
These could be attributed to a depressingly wide array of reasons..

[darwinist atheist]

Well the leader in waiting Jacob Zuma has dodgy veiws on how you get aids. Definatly not what Africa needs at the moment. I think South Africa has renegaded on a lot of it's responsibilities as the wealthiest sub saharan african nation.
Well his views on aids are actually the last thing that concerns me about him. The man is a populist in the worst sense of the word. The way he gets people's attention is by dancing and chanting slogans...Childlike.
He is a tribalist. His supporters know that and they're quite happy with it too. The man comes across as having borderline mental retardation..Listen to his speeches...I honestly don't know how people like him get into office..
Well with regards to South-Africa's "responsibilities" to Africa, what did you expect? People say what they need to say to get into office..Did you think think the government actually gives a s**t about their people once they establish power?:lol:
Besides, even if they were of the intention of being there for their African brothers, they have their own backyard to worry about first, such as a 35% unemployment rate, uncontrollable crime, bureaucratic incompetence, the AIDS epidemic, infrastructural stagnation, corruption, and a refugee crisis, amongst other things..

[darwinist atheist]

I think the youth wing of the SACP has alot to offer if it follows through with it's enthusiasm. Are you a member of the SACP?
Not at all...Don't get me wrong...I can sympathise with Marxist ideals. I just don't think it would necessarily apply to the South-African situation.
The vast majority of people are tribalist, religious, and hopelessly corrupted by the materialist perception of wealth, wether they have it or not...
The only way communists would take power in SA, is through armed force, coupled with ridiculously good leadership...
I don't see that happening anytime soon...

[lombas]

Whatever the "firmness" of the SACP's dedication to socialism is, Joe Slovo and Chris Hani were the coolest people in South African politics. Ever.

[synthesis]

As for the original poster, I think the anti-apartheid struggle would have been much better off without the SACP, and the SACP would probably be a lot more powerful if apartheid had never fallen.

[Phalanx]

Anyone who thinks that a civilization can just immediately recover from hundreds of years of massacres and the grand larceny of labor-power and resources... well, you'd have to be a fucking idiot to think that.

Indeed. Ireland, for example, took many years before it recovered from the Cromwell invasion and the famine, among other British atrocities. Only recently has the Irish living standard spiked.

I think One Empire has to read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. Or they can forever be stuck in their hateful ignorant bliss.

[Mike Rotchtickles]

I think South Africa is a wonderful country with great potential. Yes there is still a lot that needs to be achieved with regards to inequality and the consequences of this such as crime and poverty. A lot of people may have a very negative sentiments towards our former president Thabo Mbeki because of the many pro-capitalist policies he implemented. These have resulted in increasing the gap between the rich and the poor. The hypocritical thing about Mbeki's critics is that they attribute the Failures of South Africa solely on him and than when talking of the successes they seem to omit and generalise to the success without much mention of his name. South Africa has many systems implemented under the stewardship of Mbeki such as national health for all, an independent judiciary, a self-regulating media and many basic human rights that people in the West also enjoy. no doubt there is still a long way to go but when we reach it Thabo mbeki will be one of the people I will forever be grateful for.

[redSHARP]

i have been taking classes about Africa and the Apartheid era. unfortunetly, the whole region is racked with problems from high crime, aids, and western neo-imperialism. i would love to study in south africa, and better yet, go to the World Cup.
The SACP had its chance, but Mandela did not go further and making the struggle a class struggle. he did many great things, but i realized that class struggle was never his agenda. the townships are in terrible shape and i watched SA tv about how the water access in the poor towns is very bad, and now they are being charged for it (the program was taped in 2004). The new governement and situation would make Joe Slovo turn in his grave. However, improvements have been made and South Africa is a wonderful place.

p.s. i want to visit south africa, any good places to go? how about studying in south africa? PM me! Thank you!

[lombas]

I read today that the ANC back in the days of the Freedom Charter negotiated that all state employees (mostly whites who would "disappear" right after the '94 elections) could have full pension rights, can anyone confirm this?