The Peoples Republic of Poland

[Brother No. 1]

comrades can the Socialist republic Poland return again and if possible can all of eastern europe go back to socialism give me your answers and thoughts comrades

[Q]

comrades can the Socialist republic Poland return again and if possible can all of eastern europe go back to socialism give me your answers and thoughts comrades

It can become socialist if the working takes matters into their own hands (duh?).
Also, Poland never knew anything more than a Stalinist regime (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/s/t.htm#stalinism), a regime of degenerative socialism.

[communard resolution]

Funny how all the follow-up answers by me and Q-Collective have just disappeared overnight. Given that I've discussed our 'beloved' Peoples Republic of Poland so often already it's no big loss, but it's still strange how this kind of thing has been happening recently.

Is that a technical problem or has somebody split the thread without acknowledging it properly?

[Niemand]

Funny how all the follow-up answers by me and Q-Collective have just disappeared overnight. Given that I've discussed our 'beloved' Peoples Republic of Poland so often already it's no big loss, but it's still strange how this kind of thing has been happening recently.

Is that a technical problem or has somebody split the thread without acknowledging it properly?
I just made a post about that since two posts of mine were deleted over the night. I guess it must just be a technical problem after all if it's been happening a lot lately.

[communard resolution]

OK yeah, that would have been it.

Oh well, what I basically said is that Q-Collective had no idea what he was talking about when he attributed a "good standard of living for everyone" to the PRL, a country whose "good living standard" I experienced first-hand when growing up there. I also mentioned that capitalist countries such as the Federal Republic of Germany also provided "free education and healthcare" for 50+ years while offering a much better "living standard for everyone" on top of that. I furthermore stated that Auschwitz guaranteed "full employment" for inmates too, while at the same time warning Q-Collective not to take this statement as a straightforward, sarcasm-free analogy (as he did when I referred to the low popularity of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia when suggesting to Polish Soviet that his ideas would meet with about the same support in modern-day Poland).

Other than that, I asked Q-Collective if it would be okay to just refer him back to earlier PRL threads where I've discussed these topics previously as this is all rather offensive and infuriating to me. That's all.

[Brother No. 1]

well I'm sorry comrade and I'm half polish

[communard resolution]

That's alright mate, no problem. I think I just didn't like Q-Collective's attitude when he said "I'm going to call bullshit on this". It felt like someone walking up to me trying to tell me that the sky was green. I guess he "supports the PRL critically" or something like that.

But besides hating the PZPR, I agree with you that capitalism is very bad for Poland. I'm still in touch with people from there and I'm aware there are very bad things happening there. They encourage Western companies to move there and invest by promising not to tax them. These companies are not obliged to offer any kind of security to the people they employ in Poland: no contracts, no pensions, no insurance, no nothing. Their motto: "you should be glad we're letting you work for us at all."

[Brother No. 1]

but in the end i think that the polish will find Socialism that will work for them and the Capitalist will think again about dare attacking the polish motherland

[Q]

OK yeah, that would have been it.

Oh well, what I basically said is that Q-Collective had no idea what he was talking about when he attributed a "good standard of living for everyone" to the PRL, a country whose "good living standard" I experienced first-hand when growing up there. I also mentioned that capitalist countries such as the Federal Republic of Germany also provided "free education and healthcare" for 50+ years while offering a much better "living standard for everyone" on top of that. I furthermore stated that Auschwitz guaranteed "full employment" for inmates too, while at the same time warning Q-Collective not to take this statement as a straightforward, sarcasm-free analogy (as he did when I referred to the low popularity of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia when suggesting to Polish Soviet that his ideas would meet with about the same support in modern-day Poland).

Other than that, I asked Q-Collective if it would be okay to just refer him back to earlier PRL threads where I've discussed these topics previously as this is all rather offensive and infuriating to me. That's all.

You were first comparing Poland with Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. I was following that comparison and was thusly correct by saying that the living standard were high in comparison (hence my "calling bullshit" statement). Your comparison with Germany came after and is correct to some extent as it "proves" that capitalism can thrive after it has destroyed a whole continent (WWII). It also points out that a bureaucratic planned economy is highly inefficient. But despite all that Poland had a socialised and planned economy, which were progressive gains over capitalism.

About the deletion: OI OI OI hacked our forums last night and it had to be reverted to an earlier backup.

[communard resolution]

You were first comparing Poland with Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge

No, I was comparing the levels of support for a return to the PRL the poster would be likely to find in present-day Poland to the levels of support he would be likely to find for the Khmer Rouge in present-day Cambodia. It's called exagerration - you shouldn't take manners of speaking as straightforward analogies.


I was following that comparison and was thusly correct by saying that the living standard were high in comparison Yes, you are correct insofar as there's always somewhere where living standards are even lower. But again, you misunderstood my original statement.


(hence my "calling bullshit" statement)Your "bullshit" statement was followed by the absurd claim that Poland offered a good living standard for everybody. If someone who grew up in hunger-stricken Ethiopia claimed that, I would cut them some slack - but not if it's a Dutch communist fantasizing about the PZPR's "progressive gains over capitalism".


Your comparison with Germany came after and is correct to some extent as it "proves" that capitalism can thrive after it has destroyed a whole continent (WWII).The point of my comparison was that free education does not a socialist country make.


But despite all that Poland had a socialised and planned economy, which were progressive gains over capitalism.The socialised and planned economy of the PRL is best summed up by my father's sarcastic definition of communism: "Equally shared poverty". I disagree with him insofar as there existed a caste of Chosen Ones (aka the PZPR) who were somewhat more equal than others as they habitually dined on luxury goods from the West.

As of recent, I feel more and more attracted to Left Communist positions. Can you blame me when so many people support (at least "critically") any shitty scroundel regime that ever claimed to be socialist? Those Lefts might be snotty as fuck, but hey, they're often the only ones who make any sense and call things by the name.


OI OI OI hacked our forums last night and it had to be reverted to an earlier backup.That guy's a notiorious pain in the arse. :)

[Pogue]

I don't understand all this soviet-necrophilia. Why would you want to re-create a nation which is based heavily on the USSR? The USSR was shit, and if a revolution happens, it wont re-create any soviet-esque Peoples Republics. People aren't stupid enough to fall for that again.

[redwinter]

One thing i'd be interested in is if anyone knows more about the history of the Communist Party of Poland, led by Kazimerz Mijal (former second in command of the Polish United Workers Party, the revisionist ruling party of Poland first led by Gomulka) mainly in exile from Albania (from where I've read he clandestinely broadcast Polish-language anti-revisionist radio transmissions and wrote revolutionary propaganda that was shipped into Poland from Albanian ships when they docked there).

I know little about this person and the "party" he led (to what extent a party or organization actually existed, I'm unsure). The only English-language material I've seen online is documentation from the (US backed) Radio Free Europe documents on the Open Source Archives. Maybe Polish-speakers here have more knowledge of this person?

[Robespierre2.0]

I dunno man, probably not for a while.
If I'm not mistaken, Poland has historically been very nationalistic and conservative.
(I'm part polish, too, and my grandparents are REALLY nationalist)

Of course, everything changes over time, but I think it might be a while before the Polish political consciousness swings to the left.

Oh, and Ismail told me about Kazimerz Mijal- apparently he became an anti-semetic nutjob after a while. I'm sure he'd have more details if you're interested.

[Red October]

Why the hell would you want to bring back the PRL? I'm not saying capitalism is good for Poland, but "Socialist" Poland wasn't too fantastic either. Nero's written a lot on what an awful system it was.

[communard resolution]

If I'm not mistaken, Poland has historically been very nationalistic and conservative.


This could be the result of Poland having been in a state of 'permanent national liberation struggle', if you will, against either German or Russian territorial interests/domination throughout much of its history. A good argument against national(ist) liberation struggles perhaps.


Of course, everything changes over time, but I think it might be a while before the Polish political consciousness swings to the left.I would think so too. There are some leftist teenagers who are either Antifa or anarcho-pacifists, and I think that's pretty much it.

EDIT: I do think that the Antifa are an extremely necessary street force in places such as Poland and Russia and that there should be even more of them.



Kazimerz Mijal- apparently he became an anti-semetic nutjob I'm afraid I haven't got more info on this man, but there were quite a few anti-semitic nutjobs in the PZPR. At times, their sentiments became officially sanctioned policy.

[LOLseph Stalin]

comrades can the Socialist republic Poland return again and if possible can all of eastern europe go back to socialism give me your answers and thoughts comrades

I think it could become Socialist if the workers get organized and active. Also, it was never Communist to begin with. It was Stalinist. ;)

[Brother No. 1]

true comrade you are right