ICC forums on the revolt in Greece

[Alf]

International Communist Current Public Meetings



A new generation of proletarians in revolt across Europe


The newspapers and news broadcasts are full of the atrocious events in Gaza, which highlight the future that capitalism has in store for us if it is allowed to follow the dictates of its own destructive logic, not only in Gaza, not only in Iraq, Afghanistan or the Congo, but all over the planet – a descent into barbarism and war.
But there is another future indicated by events which are less well-publicised, but no less important: the future mapped out by the class struggle and a growing challenge to capitalist society.
Forty years after May 68 in France, which was the beginning of an international resurgence of workers’ struggles, the class struggle in 2008 has been expressed in particular by a ‘new May 68’ – by the revolt of young proletarians, school pupils, university students, casual and unemployed workers, in France, Italy, Germany, and above all Greece in the last few weeks. These movements, often presented by the media as mere ‘riots’, outbreaks of aimless vandalism, are the product of a profound discontent in the face of the economic crisis of world capitalism, and are giving rise to new forms of organisation and very widespread discussion about the aims and methods of the struggle. They have called into question the official parliamentary and trade union ‘channels’ and have opened themselves out to wider sectors of the working class.
It is vitally important for all those who are opposed to the present order of society to discuss these movements and reflect on what we can learn from them. Such discussion needs to take place in face to face meetings as well as online. The ICC is organising a series of public forums on these movements in a number of European cities in the coming month and we hope these meetings can serve as a focus for such a debate; at the same time we are very open to proposals for other meetings and conferences on the same theme.

In Britain, the following meetings are planned:

London, 24 January, 2pm,
Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, WC1

Birmingham, 14 February, 2pm
Friends of the Earth Warehouse, 54a Allison Street, Digbeth

(This subject replaces those previously advertised)

[Hit The North]

In which other European cities are the ICC organising meetings?

[Devrim]

In which other European cities are the ICC organising meetings?

It can be found on the website: http://internationalism.org/500/

The French section (which is the biggest) has these meetings on its schedule:

Bruxelles (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3582)Reporté à une date ultérieure10/01/2009 - 15:00
Lyon (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3607)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe10/01/2009 - 17:00
Toulouse (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3601) 11/01/2009 - 11:00
Lille (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3600) 17/01/2009 - 14:30
Paris (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3598)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe24/01/2009 - 15:00
Toulouse (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3599)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe24/01/2009 - 15:00
Nantes (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3596)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe24/01/2009 - 16:00
Caen (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3597)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe31/01/2009 - 17:00
Marseille (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3608)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe31/01/2009 - 17:00
Paris (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3605) 07/02/2009 - 16:00
Tours (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3604)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe07/02/2009 - 16:00
Lille (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3606)Les révoltes de la jeunesse en Europe confirment le développement de la lutte de classe14/02/2009 - 14:30
Toulouse (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3602) 15/02/2009 - 11:00
Toulouse (http://fr.internationalism.org/node/3603) 20/02/2009 - 18:30

The ICC has sections in these countries:

Europe

Great Britain (http://en.internationalism.org/taxonomy/term/3)
France (http://fr.internationalism.org/taxonomy/term/3)
Deutschland (http://de.internationalism.org/)
Schweiz/Suisse (http://de.internationalism.org/)
Italia (http://it.internationalism.org/)
España (http://es.internationalism.org/)
Sverige (http://sv.internationalism.org/)
België (http://nl.internationalism.org/)/Belgique (http://www.internationalism.org/french)
Nederland (http://nl.internationalism.org/)

Americas

United States (http://en.internationalism.org/taxonomy/term/4)
Mexico (http://es.internationalism.org/)
Venezuela (http://es.internationalism.org/)
Brasi (http://pt.internationalism.org/)l (http://pt.internationalism.org/)

Asia/Pacific
India (http://hi.internationalism.org/)


Devrim

[Leo]

Bump.

[[email protected] War]

Stay clear of this CULT folks - they are seriously wierd:D

[Leo]

[email protected] - trolling is not allowed on this website. Consider this a verbal warning for it.

[Charles Xavier]

[email protected] - trolling is not allowed on this website. Consider this a verbal warning for it.


Leo, this is a conflict of interest as you belong to that them, and you are warning people who talk about your cult in a negative way. That's not trolling, what you've just proven to me from your actions that the ICC is definitely a cult.


And I can see how he got that idea as:

A Cult may refer to a cohesive social group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream.

And you criticize us marxists for being unable to accept criticism.

[Leo]

Leo, this is a conflict of interest as you belong to that themThis has got nothing to do with anything.


and you are warning people who talk about your cult in a negative way. No I am warning people coming up with one liners, calling a group a "cult" and "weird" without trying to back it up - this is trolling.

I would do the same thing if anyone posted a one-liner calling you a stalinist weirdo. It is my job to prevent people from trolling threads with one liners, this has got nothing to do with my personal politics or the ICC in particular. Had I been personally bothered by what he said, I could also have trashed it (and probably if it involved anyone else other than the ICC I would have) but I did not.


And you criticize us marxists for being unable to accept criticism. If you see any decent criticism with a one liner which does nothing but name-calling, then you have nothing to do with marxism, but that was already proven previously.


And I can see how he got that idea as:

A Cult may refer to a cohesive social group (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream.Do you realize that by that definition any radical movement is should be described as a cult right? What is mainstream in all our surrounding population is mainstream bourgeois politics.

[[email protected] War]

Leo, this is a conflict of interest as you belong to that them, and you are warning people who talk about your cult in a negative way. That's not trolling, what you've just proven to me from your actions that the ICC is definitely a cult.


And I can see how he got that idea as:

A Cult may refer to a cohesive social group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream.

And you criticize us marxists for being unable to accept criticism.

Yes you are right Tupac. As it goes, one liners are intensely political, because it is all crystalised in one sentence. I do not think left communism has anything to do with Marxism, but this is a personal opinion of course. The evidence for this is the creation of the holy grail by the ultra left of what are supposedly meant to be the 'real communist' beliefs, such as the pox on both camps approach to nationalism which steps outside of the working class and class struggle eg. Ireland.

Marxism is not theoretical ideals, it is real people in real struggles, with all the white heat and its imperfections, or it is nothing. Marxism is dynamic and not the ossified dregs provided by the ultra left, which sends them down the oubliette of history.

[Bilan]

Lots of words, [email protected] War, but in the end you said very little. If you have an objection to this group with some sort of substantial basis, please raise it in the appropriate thread (i.e. not this one).

[[email protected] War]

[Flaming Removed- Random Precision]

To simplify it for you, it boils down to one essential fact.

That Marxism is dialectical, it changes, it does not harden into fossilised politics or it is not Marxism, it is merely ideology. The left communists mainly, and some anarchists too are guilty of that. Totally incapable of being experimental, innovative or dynamic.

[Bilan]

Yeah, see, you did the same thing again. You used alot of words, but didn't say anything of substance.

[Enragé]

"The revolt of the youth confirms the development of the class struggle" (subject of a meeting of the ICC in amsterdam) - like, who the fuck are you going to get to your meetings with a title like that?

Also, since apparently there's a chapter in the netherlands, in amsterdam even (where i live), i wonder why i've never seen any ICC people visibly on any demonstration or whatever.

[Leo]

"The revolt of the youth confirms the development of the class struggle" (subject of a meeting of the ICC in amsterdam) - like, who the fuck are you going to get to your meetings with a title like that?

What on earth is the point you are making, that talking about the development of the class struggle is outdated or something? What is wrong about talking about the revolt of the Greek youth? What is wrong about talking about class struggle?


Also, since apparently there's a chapter in the netherlands, in amsterdam even (where i live), i wonder why i've never seen any ICC people visibly on any demonstration or whatever.

I think our section in Netherlands is not really that big.

[Enragé]

What on earth is the point you are making, that talking about the development of the class struggle is outdated or something? What is wrong about talking about the revolt of the Greek youth? What is wrong about talking about class struggle?


ugh, the point im making is that with a title like that alot of people will simply not understand what its about and most people will be like "err... right".

Im not against the content of the meeting (probably), im against the academic language used.


I think our section in Netherlands is not really that big.


Neither is either the International League for People's Struggle or the splinter maoist org Rode Morgen (red morning) over here, but i've seen people of both on many occasions.

[Bilan]

Yeah, okay, if this sort of crap continues, I'm closing the thread. This is slander, and of no substance.
And I might suggest you read the article before making an inane judgment of it.

[Bilan]

Also, class struggle is academic language?