Why do people like Malcolm X?

[benhur]

Hi Everyone,

This isn't an attack on X, I just want to know why people of leftist orientation are fascinated by this person. From the little I know, he seems to be just another nationalist. What distinguishes him from other nationalists, that people admire him so much? He also seems to have said he doesn't care much about the assassination of Kennedy and other leaders who weren't really a threat to him. This sounds pretty ruthless to me.

Again, this isn't a challenge. I just want to know different perspectives on this, which is why I am posting this on OI forums, so I can get a good idea from both sides.

Thanks in advance.

[Kassad]

Who would care about the assassination of Kennedy? He was another puppet. Look at the Bay of Pigs. He sent thousands of our troops to Vietnam. Revolutionaries have nothing in common with him.

Malcolm X grew up in a very prejudiced area. If you read his autobiography, you'll see him describe multiple events of white supremacists and other racists coming to his house and harassing him and his family. He grew up in a prejudiced environment which fueled his revolutionary political beliefs. He lived during a time where the African American community was being treated like dirt and he advocated the destruction of the system that fueled such prejudice and disdain.

A very respectable individual and someone who contributed significantly to our cause.

[Plagueround]

Malcom renounced nationalism and embraced class struggle.


Listening to leaders like Nasser, Ben Bella, and Nkrumah awakened me to the dangers of racism. I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another.
Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant — the one who wanted to help the [Black] Muslims and the whites get together — and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [Black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then — like all [Black] Muslims — I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years.
That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days — I'm glad to be free of them.

He did, however, still view the self-determination of oppressed black communities as important.

[Phalanx]

Hi Everyone,

This isn't an attack on X, I just want to know why people of leftist orientation are fascinated by this person. From the little I know, he seems to be just another nationalist. What distinguishes him from other nationalists, that people admire him so much? He also seems to have said he doesn't care much about the assassination of Kennedy and other leaders who weren't really a threat to him. This sounds pretty ruthless to me.

Again, this isn't a challenge. I just want to know different perspectives on this, which is why I am posting this on OI forums, so I can get a good idea from both sides.

Thanks in advance.

He was a nationalist, just as Connolly or Ho Chi Minh were. It's different than White nationalism, Zionism or BJP, where nationalists incite violence out of xenophobia. Irish, Vietnamese and African American nationalists struggle against oppression.

[JimmyJazz]

Support for national self-determination of oppressed nationalities is a major Leninist stance. So, support for black nationalism in the U.S. is just a straightforward application of this stance.

I'm not a "Leninist" btw, and I don't have particularly strong feelings about MX.


Malcom ... embraced class struggle.

To an extent, so did MLK Jr. start to toward the end of his life. I wonder if both men had lived longer what political directions they would have taken. I think they would have converged much more than they had a chance to.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I have respect for him on a number of grounds. For one, he was more than just an armchair revolutionary. Second, he denounced racism and was killed for it, which is very respectable no matter a person's political or economic beliefs.

I think he's (understandably) romanticized by a community who hasn't really had a bold leader since the 1960's. Unless you consider Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or Obama to be bold.

[Francis]

I respect Malcolm X. He was no bullshitter; he told you what was on his mind. It's stupid to compare him to a black version of the KKK, he didn't advocate mobs of blacks to start lynching white folks; even though a lot of them deserved it at the time.

He was a reverse segregationist and it was completely understandable.

Black guys like him are a dying breed.

[RedResurrection]

Malcolm X has my respect. The guy was obviously a very clever man. He never gave an inch to the enemies, and I would like to quote Malcolm X when he said:

"Christian? Gandhian? I don't go for anything that's non-violent and turn-the-other-cheekish. I don't see how any revolution—I've never heard of a non-violent revolution or a revolution that was brought about by turning the other cheek, and so I believe that it is a crime for anyone to teach a person who is being brutalized to continue to accept that brutality without doing something to defend himself. If this is what the Christian-Gandhian philosophy teaches then it is criminal—a criminal philosophy."


Very true indeed! And every true communist out there would agree with this, as most leaders already have.

Only an armed revolution is the way, for it is the only way to entirely remove the rich elite from power.

This is why I like Malcolm X.

[RedResurrection]

Black guys like him are a dying breed.
The rich and white elite of capitalists have succeeded in their elimination of African-American intellectuals. And they are able to do whatever they want while they continue to push their ideology of Divide & Conquer aswell as the stupifying of America.

Obama is just another white capitalist puppet on the inside. He just happens to be black on the outside. People talk about him being a Messiah. BOY, WILL THEY BE DISSAPOINTED! The naive public has been brainwashed. Thank god people like us are here to see it.

[Comrade_Red]

i agree; the man just seemed like a racist to me.

The rich and white elite

That sounds like racism in itself.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Malcolm X has my respect. The guy was obviously a very clever man. He never gave an inch to the enemies, and I would like to quote Malcolm X when he said:

"Christian? Gandhian? I don't go for anything that's non-violent and turn-the-other-cheekish. I don't see how any revolution—I've never heard of a non-violent revolution or a revolution that was brought about by turning the other cheek, and so I believe that it is a crime for anyone to teach a person who is being brutalized to continue to accept that brutality without doing something to defend himself. If this is what the Christian-Gandhian philosophy teaches then it is criminal—a criminal philosophy."


Very true indeed! And every true communist out there would agree with this, as most leaders already have.

Only an armed revolution is the way, for it is the only way to entirely remove the rich elite from power.

This is why I like Malcolm X.

So do you agree with the Nation of Islam for taking him out? They could have just turned the other cheek when he denounced them, but what has that ever accomplished?

Anyway, people who apply that philosophy unquestioningly end up getting blockaded and bombed.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

The rich and white elite of capitalists have succeeded in their elimination of African-American intellectuals. And they are able to do whatever they want while they continue to push their ideology of Divide & Conquer aswell as the stupifying of America.

Obama is just another white capitalist puppet on the inside. He just happens to be black on the outside. People talk about him being a Messiah. BOY, WILL THEY BE DISSAPOINTED! The naive public has been brainwashed. Thank god people like us are here to see it.

Then shouldn't it just be the rich elite?

If black people are going to be thrown into the group the term "white and rich" elite is an outdated phrase. It'd be like saying the University of Alabama of White People, something that hasn't been true for 40 years.

As for the rich white man Dividing and Conquering the black man since the 1960s I find the notion ridiculous. A lot of groups get fucked over due to their own apathy stemming from a lack of political and social consciousness. But I don't buy that the white ruling class has denied any group in the US from organizing and taking action. Shit, the coming together via social networking used by the Obama campaign should serve as a model.

[RedResurrection]

i agree; the man just seemed like a racist to me.

The rich and white elite

That sounds like racism in itself.
thats not racism. I am white myself. And neither you or I can deny that there exists a VERY powerful white elite in America. That is not racism. Just facts. I am talking about people like the Rockefeller family and other capitalists.

[RedResurrection]

So do you agree with the Nation of Islam for taking him out? They could have just turned the other cheek when he denounced them, but what has that ever accomplished?

Anyway, people who apply that philosophy unquestioningly end up getting blockaded and bombed.
It is important to see the differences between the Malcolm X - Nation of Islam conflict, and a revolution. Malcolm X said that you cannot give the enemies an inch in a revolution. I have a quote in my signature by Mao Zedong that is very similar to what Malcolm X was trying to point to.

[RedResurrection]

Then shouldn't it just be the rich elite?

If black people are going to be thrown into the group the term "white and rich" elite is an outdated phrase. It'd be like saying the University of Alabama of White People, something that hasn't been true for 40 years.

As for the rich white man Dividing and Conquering the black man since the 1960s I find the notion ridiculous. A lot of groups get fucked over due to their own apathy stemming from a lack of political and social consciousness. But I don't buy that the white ruling class has denied any group in the US from organizing and taking action. Shit, the coming together via social networking used by the Obama campaign should serve as a model.
You, aswell as I know who are behind the curtains in America. Perhaps I just have the balls to speak up on it. Its just a taboo to talk about it. Its not racism. How can you even denounce it? I am white myself, and you make it sound like I am a racist against white people.

Now, come on? How can you deny that there is a strong white elite in America? Sounds like you have embraced the capitalistic propganda. People like us are supposed to see through this and work for equality for everyone And that is NOT THE CASE IN THE AMERICAN ELITE, AND NEVER HAS BEEN. Point is that there SHOULDN'T EVEN BE AN ELITE. NO MATTER WHAT COLOR THEY ARE, but sorry to say it THERE IS A STRONG, WHITE ELITE in the USA. Are you really trying to say that Capitalist America actually put an end to racial inequality?!

[One Empire]

Fuck Malcolm X and his little band of terrorist and communist sympathisers.

[Dr Mindbender]

Fuck Malcolm X and his little band of terrorist and communist sympathisers.


dear oh dear :rolleyes:


http://www.bucksviews.com/towns/NewHope/cannon-2.jpg

[Killfacer]

fuck malcolm x and his little band of terrorist and communist sympathisers.

fuck him. Innit. Hes a fuck. Fuck. Fuuuuuuck. My heads exploding. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Killfacer]

Also:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/TeacherBear3/SmegHead.jpg

[Leo]

He also seems to have said he doesn't care much about the assassination of Kennedy

I would be very surprised if someone who declared themselves to be against a certain institution would care much about the death of one of it's leaders.

Though of course assassinating individuals is futile and pointless for class struggle, I don't give a rats ass about Kennedy's corpse or any other dead imperialist, capitalist, nationalist or bourgeois leaders.


Malcom renounced nationalism and embraced class struggle.

Well, from your quote:


Listening to leaders like Nasser, Ben Bella, and Nkrumah awakened me to the dangers of racism. I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another.

Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant — the one who wanted to help the [Black] Muslims and the whites get together — and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [Black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then — like all [Black] Muslims — I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years.

That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days — I'm glad to be free of them.First of all there is no embrace of class struggle whatsoever here nor was it ever there with Malcom X. Secondly, this is simply a rejection of racism and a return to orthodox Islam, not a rejection of nationalism.

People seem to be forgetting that Malcom X, though he may have intentions of opposing racism, did not have a class character, and was an adherent of an ultra-nationalist, almost racist ideology that was harmful for working class struggle which is the only thing that can destroy racism, and in his later life he only shifted to orthodox islam which, among other religions of the world, has been used by the ruling classes to maintain patriarchy and other violent and opressive relations for centuries, including providing an ideological justification for exploitation under capitalism.


This isn't an attack on X, I just want to know why people of leftist orientation are fascinated by this person.

It's simple: he was holding a gun in his hands and he died with it. It is fetishization of violence pure and simple.

That or some leftists who chauvenistically think anything done by "oh so poor little black people" should be supported and don't care at all about the conditions of struggle and perspectives for the future of black workers.

[Pogue]

Typical Jewish lies. You're lying about your heritage and given that Jews are reknown for lying and cheating I can safely say you're a Jew.

So are you living in Jew York City or Isra-Hell? Do you make your money by manipulation the stock market, pyramid schemes like Madoff, or sex trafficing of Russian women? Answer me KIKE.

You're 100% Jew. Even if you aren't, you still represent "Jewthink" and so are a Jew. You're a Jew, any children you have will be Jews, your family are Jews, and nothing will ever change that. Your race must be cleansed from the planet.

That first sentence reminds me of Anselm's ontological argument. I think secretly this guy is an ultra rationalist-theist who is trying to apply his theories to the real world, thus somehow proving right Nazism. Or maybe he's just a thick troll.

We need Gaunilo on this forum to counter-claim such irrefutable logical conclusions such as that Ulster Socialist is Jewish because he lies about being Jewish, and only Jews lie, etc etc.

[Leo]

One Empire is banned and his posts trashed. Please don't feed fascist trolls.

[Pawn Power]

From the little I know, he seems to be just another nationalist. What distinguishes him from other nationalists, that people admire him so much?

Black Nationalism is very different from a generic nationalism of a nation and has very different implications.

I would do some reading on the subject.

[RGacky3]

Black Nationalism is very different from a generic nationalism of a nation and has very different implications.

I would do some reading on the subject.

How so? The difference I can see, is black nationalism is race based, it has liberation tied in with it, but that does'nt justify the racist nationalism perse.

Interestingly for a long time, the Nation of Islam and the American Nazi party were buddies in the sense that they both wanted segregation, and the Nazi party leader gave speaches at NOI conventions every now and then.

Later on Malcolm X distanced himself from that and moved away from black nationalism.

I view Malcolm X the same way I view Che Guevara, as very principled, self-sacraficing honest men who did a lot of good and were very honorable, but who also had some very wrong ideas.

[Post-Something]

That or some leftists who chauvenistically think anything done by "oh so poor little black people" should be supported and don't care at all about the conditions of struggle and perspectives for the future of black workers.

So, Malcolm X had a negative impact?

On the contrary, I think he molded to the material conditions quite well.

[synthesis]

A few things...

Malcolm X was not an agent of class struggle, not directly. He was, by and large, an excellent rhetorician with impeccable credentials for the audience he was appealing to.

In his early life, his politics mostly reflected the racist oppression to which he was subjected alongside a rejection of the notion that racism in America was limited to the South.

In turn, the turn towards Islam was a turn away from the "white man's religion" from people who still needed some sort of faith to provide "the soul of soulless conditions."

As his politics matured, following his departure from the NoI and his trip to Mecca, he gradually began to sympathize and collaborate with anti-imperialist struggles around the world.

At the same time, Malcolm also began to shift his efforts towards creating a "black bloc" in the U.S. through the OAAU, in order to unify the pro-black movements and more importantly to force politicians to recognize black people as a "relevant constituency."

(Most of Malcolm's thoughts on the OAAU were removed from his autobiography by Alex Haley, who was a known FBI collaborator and co-wrote an article on the NoI called "Merchants of Hate" or something like that.)

The point is that although Malcolm was not overtly related to "class war," many of his goals coincided with the leftist agenda, and therefore it should not be surprising that many leftists sympathize with his politics.

[synthesis]

One more thing.


that does'nt justify the racist nationalism perse.

"Black nationalism" is only "racist" because white people forced black people to act as a race rather than as individuals, or as members of specific African ethnic groups or nations.

In other words, black nationalists in America had to be "racist" - because they were robbed of their nationality and citizenship, centuries before they were born. (That's why "White Nationalism" is bullshit, by the way.)

Malcolm's environment was racist, pure and simple, and rather than internalizing the racism of the oppressor, Malcolm turned it around and shot it back at that same oppressor.

Fighting racism with racism might seem illogical to us, but by all indications it was the natural conclusion of anyone who had lived a life like Malcolm's.

[Vendetta]

People liked Malcolm X because he was inspirational and representative of many ideas of the time.

[Sawtooth]

Even though I'm way too far left, I still think the Civil Rights movement was very important to improving the material conditions of millions of people in America. I also think that Malcolm X was instrumental in the Civil Rights movement, perhaps even moreso than the bourgeois-friendly Martin Luther King, Jr.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

From what I've read that depends on where you were.

In Harlem, I'd say X was probably the more influential of the two.
In Alabama, definitely King.

What disturbs me about the civil rights movement is the way King is being held up as being THE movement. Yes the man is extremely admirable and definitely deserve a chapter in the history books and a holiday and a memorial and all that. But he wasn't the movement, he was the spokesman.

[Sawtooth]

What disturbs me about the civil rights movement is the way King is being held up as being THE movement. Yes the man is extremely admirable and definitely deserve a chapter in the history books and a holiday and a memorial and all that. But he wasn't the movement, he was the spokesman.

Yes, I didn't mean to denigrate Dr. King. But he's certainly not the entirety of the Civil Rights movement, what you said is more what I was going for.

However, I think at least part of it is because Dr. King is seen as very acceptable to the bourgeois, with his non-violence and preaching of love, as opposed to Malcolm X's (early on) unbridled racism and use of "any means necessary."

[RGacky3]

However, I think at least part of it is because Dr. King is seen as very acceptable to the bourgeois, with his non-violence and preaching of love, as opposed to Malcolm X's (early on) unbridled racism and use of "any means necessary."

I agree, but theres also a reason Dr. Kings belief in Socialism and being against the Vietnam war is carefully ignored.

[Comrade_Red]

I view Malcolm X the same way I view Che Guevara, as very principled, self-sacraficing honest men who did a lot of good and were very honorable, but who also had some very wrong ideas.

Ha. Malcolm X didn't die fighting for revolution.

[Comrade_Red]

thats not racism. I am white myself. And neither you or I can deny that there exists a VERY powerful white elite in America. That is not racism. Just facts. I am talking about people like the Rockefeller family and other capitalists.

Though i risk sounding like a Stormfronter, i must point out that the Rockefeller family are in fact Jewish. xP

Making their being white the target of your negativity is only racism and counterproductive...if you truly believe that race doesn't exist, then see them only as capitalists, and not as being white.

though i really don't wish to sound like i'm crying 'anti-white racism.'
i'm Latino/white, for the record.

[RGacky3]

then see them only as capitalists, and not as being white.


I agree, there were black Capitalists in America (disproportionately less? Yeah), and white Proletariates. If you make it about race, i.e. mix race and class struggle, your going to get into a strange situation, equating race with class or treating it as such, which is simply wrong.


Though i risk sounding like a Stormfronter, i must point out that the Rockefeller family are in fact Jewish. xP

Jewish is a religious/cultural distinction, there are black jews, arab jews, white jews, persian jews and so on, Rockefeller was white.

But like you said, it should'nt matter waht color the Capitalist is, as it should'nt matter waht color the worker is.

[Robert]

deleted

[RGacky3]

In other words, black nationalists in America had to be "racist" - because they were robbed of their nationality and citizenship, centuries before they were born.

If a black person grew up in a non racist neighborhood, meaning where most of the whites were not racist, and they grew up after slavery and secregation. Then no, they wern't robbed of it.

You can give reasons for black nationalism, but that does'nt justify it, I can also give reasons why poor whites hate immigrants, that does'nt justify it.

[Comrade_Red]

You "must," eh? Why?

John D. Rockfeller, Sr., the industrialist, was a Baptist. His roots are with French and German Huguenots (French Calvinists) going back to the 16th century.

His son, John Jr. was also Baptist.

His son, David, is Baptist.

Gov. Nelson Rockefeller, grandson, of John D. Sr., was Baptist.

Senator Jay Rockefeller of W. Va. is Presbyterian.


Which specific Rockefeller is or ever was Jewish? And why again "must" you point this out?

Because it was erroneous.

Well, i have always heard that the Rockefellers were in fact Jewish, so forgive me.

[Robert]

I deleted my post above, Comrade Red, and apologize for my acerbic tone. If you delete yours and the one above, the record of Jewish Rockefellers is wiped cleaner than a photo of Lenin next to Trotsky.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/classes/csci_2101/false.html

[Chicano Shamrock]

People like Malcolm X because he makes Geronimo Pratt look like Sean Hannity.

Honestly though I personally like Malcolm X because of the changes he made in his life ideologically. I think it takes a strong will to take a hard look at what you think and make a change. If I may quote the serenity prayer:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

[Sendo]

why do you speak in the past tense?

[Comrade_Red]

I deleted my post above, Comrade Red, and apologize for my acerbic tone. If you delete yours and the one above, the record of Jewish Rockefellers is wiped cleaner than a photo of Lenin next to Trotsky.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/classes/csci_2101/false.html


i really don't get what you're saying...but apology accepted.