Structuring a society based on the American political system.

[SocialRealist]

As we know, deny it or not. America has survived for a long time and has done well for its self during this period of time, it pondered across my mind for a while. Is it possible to structure a socialist country with the American style political system?

[piet11111]

As we know, deny it or not. America has survived for a long time and has done well for its self during this period of time, it pondered across my mind for a while. Is it possible to structure a socialist country with the American style political system?

the united states was created in 1776 if you call that a long time you should read a history book just take for example china it survived for thousands of years as a monarchy so by your logic why not attempt a "socialist monarchy" :lol:

but serious now i honestly can not see anything in the american political system even remotely worth emulating.
so what do you see in it that you consider so appealing ? (its american doesn't count :tt2:)

[SocialRealist]

the united states was created in 1776 if you call that a long time you should read a history book just take for example china it survived for thousands of years as a monarchy so by your logic why not attempt a "socialist monarchy" :lol:

but serious now i honestly can not see anything in the american political system even remotely worth emulating.
so what do you see in it that you consider so appealing ? (its american doesn't count :tt2:)

I see the American style political system as a very good system, even though it is capitalistic and has certain problems such as corruption, but what system doesnt have corruption. It is democratic unlike certain systems in the past, the Soviet Union and China for example. It needs tweaks though I feel, socialist transition, empowerment of the working class and liberalization of laws.

[davidasearles]

I wholly disagree with the premise of society based on the American political system.

At this point of development only a society based upon collective worker control of the industrial means of production and distribution makes sense.

What the system of the present United States does suggest is that political government, especially a republic answerable to the people can be capable of keeping state power in check as an adjunct to the will of the people - as in Lincoln's under-recognized: government of the people by the people and for the people.

For the most part I would disdain most involvement with the political government that (to me anyway) is and shall be incapable of freeing itself from bourgeois domination until the very eve of the revolution when the vast majority of the workers (along with most other people as well) are screaming for recognition of the right of the workers to collectivize the industrial means of production and distribution. Any other involvment with them, such as a revolutionaries trying to become one of them to me would suggest that one could actually dive into a pool of shit and come out smelling like a rose. The less involment the better. Our salvation shall come from the great masses of the workers and others also disdaining anything less than recognition of the right to collective worker control.

But Politicians, especially politicians in the United States of this day and age are very accomplished at being able to discern the winds of political power. I suggest that even before many workers will be able to see where things are heading, our politicians will know what they MUST do.

So I have the greatest optimism that the politicians of the US political system shall in due time support the idea of collective worker control of the industrial means of production and distribution - and as the (at least theoretic) representatives "of the people" that they will take the necessary steps to have the organic law of the nation reflect what the workers will determine - the workers have a right to collective control wherever they have determined to exercise that right.

With the establishment of the workers collective the day to day operations of daily living shall be governed by the worker's collective. That is why I say that IT shall be the basis of society. For the most part I can see reliance upon the political government as an adjunct to make such determinations that productive administration is not that well suited for, such as questions of allocation and/or preservation of natural resources, ensuring safe driving practices, the setting of and enforcement of penal codes, etc.

[davidasearles]

What's needed is the institution of real democracy, i.e. the dictatorship of the proletarian majority. That will include public ownership of the means of production, a planned economy geared to meeting human need, etc., all administered by the proletariat.
I perefer the more descriptive - workers' collective control of the industrial means of production and distribution




The American Revolution was progressive when it happened, but those days are long gone. The current system serves the exploiters, and there's not much in it for us to replicate.
It served the exploiters then as now but there is the matter of the US Constitution that still remains with its vey powerful amanedment section still fully operational.




The existing state needs to be smashed.

The existing state needs nothing. It is a tool that despite empty rhetoric to the contrary going back through DeLeon, Lenin, Engels, Marx and Bakunin would be just as amendable to the needs of the workers and of the workers' collective just as the state attempts to be amendable to the needs of the ruling class now. The thing to do, it seems, is to completely change the relationship of the workers to the tool of production to allow for worker collective control rather than private control thereby eliminating class rule.


Things can't be tweaked to end the exploitation of man by man and eliminate classes. We need to build a new world, because the old one can't be fixed.
As in most rhetorical constructs it's all a matter of perspective and attitude.