Is the American Dream over?

[Psy]

Is the American dream (or should I say American delusion?) over? I know Americans are hoping to return to the ways things were in the 1990's before the stagnation of the 2000's and the crash of 2008. I don't see how things got go back to the way they were for workers as unlike before I think Americans workers are going have to consume less as a result of the crisis in the rate of profit.

[fabiansocialist]

Is the American dream (or should I say American delusion?) over? I know Americans are hoping to return to the ways things were in the 1990's before the stagnation of the 2000's and the crash of 2008. I don't see how things got go back to the way they were for workers as unlike before I think Americans workers are going have to consume less as a result of the crisis in the rate of profit.

The "American Dream" has been dead since the early '70s -- its demise was merely camouflaged by increasing indebtedness (both individual and state), and deftly brushing the many casualties under the rug. The present crisis is the moment of truth for all that indebtedness.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yea I think it was oficially over, by 1930s when the production forces in the US couldn't grow anymore and the crisis started. Then it picked up again after WWII, and yea around the 70s the production forces started stagnating again.

[redSHARP]

possibly, it depends on how the next 5 months go.

[Prisoner#69]

The "American Dream" has never been a reality for the majority of citizens in America, past or present. Surely there have been a few people who have worked their way up from the gutter to the lap of luxury but these instances have been the minority. Most people are the Willy Lomans of the world; unable to earn a living and fulfill the "American Dream".

[spice756]

The American dream is flawed if we all got rich over night by the tooth fairy the economy would be destroyed has the money would lose value if we all where billionaires.That is why we cannot print are own money.The inflation would be too high.

[Psy]

The American dream is flawed if we all got rich over night by the tooth fairy the economy would be destroyed has the money would lose value if we all where billionaires.That is why we cannot print are own money.The inflation would be too high.
Of course but during the partial recover of the 1990's many workers actually though that the recovering rate of profit would raise would secure their future. If in 1998 you told the average American worker about what was in store for them ten years into the future (2008) they wouldn't believe you. Many in the late 90's thought the rate of profit would continue to grow for decades.

[FreeFocus]

The "American Dream" (really, a nightmare, for those at whose expense it is possible) has always been based on the rape or pillaging of others. This rape and pillage will continue, and the same people will continue to benefit. It's not "over," but merely a little more restricted, if anything.

[spice756]

I lack my history here:( I know I was reading some where there was a recession in the 70's and 80's but do not really understand what happen.

[Pawn Power]

An African American, from a single parent household, was elected president. The American "delusion" as you call it is alive and well.

[Psy]

An African American, from a single parent household, was elected president. The American "delusion" as you call it is alive and well.
But how long will that last? The world capitalist market is still crashing and none of the capitalists know how to stop the crash let alone kick start a recovery.

[Robespierre2.0]

There were 'recessions' between WWII and now, but those were really this current recession we're experiencing right now. We were taught that our government had 'smoothed the edges' of capitalism and found ways to prevent massive crises like that of the 1930s from happening again. This was really a cloud of bullshit- the government merely delayed the problem by throwing nonexistent money at it and conquering new markets. All this really did was ensure the crises would be all the more intense when it finally hit.
It's the new millenium and there's little left to conquer, and throwing funny-money at the problem can no longer delay it.

[fabiansocialist]

Of course but during the partial recover of the 1990's many workers actually though that the recovering rate of profit would raise would secure their future. If in 1998 you told the average American worker about what was in store for them ten years into the future (2008) they wouldn't believe you. Many in the late 90's thought the rate of profit would continue to grow for decades.

Even then there were many workers who understood that the higher rates of profit were based on 1) them being sweated more than ever, for lower wages and benefits, 2) offshoring of work and 3) higher indebtedness so that poorly-paid workers could continue to act as consumers.

[Psy]

Even then there were many workers who understood that the higher rates of profit were based on 1) them being sweated more than ever, for lower wages and benefits, 2) offshoring of work and 3) higher indebtedness so that poorly-paid workers could continue to act as consumers.
The 1990's saw a huge increase in consumption, there was a huge building boom as more people moved into suburbia, and as retail stores were built to keep up with the increased shopping of American workers.

We are seeing a complete collapse of consumption were a growing number of American workers can't even consume at 1930's levels.

[ev]

It's called the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.

[Agathon]

We are seeing a complete collapse of consumption were a growing number of American workers can't even consume at 1930's levels.

The only thing that worries our Lords and Masters is that the upper middle classes won't be able to consume. I expect the hammer to fall on the rest of us for their benefit.

[Psy]

The only thing that worries our Lords and Masters is that the upper middle classes won't be able to consume. I expect the hammer to fall on the rest of us for their benefit.
For commodities to turn into more money then capitalists started with capitalists require growing consumption. The capitalists are very worried about this collapse in consumption, they are well aware that if the trends continues they would be looking at period of a profit rate of zero or worse a profit rate below zero.

[Reclaimed Dasein]

Is the American dream (or should I say American delusion?) over? I know Americans are hoping to return to the ways things were in the 1990's before the stagnation of the 2000's and the crash of 2008. I don't see how things got go back to the way they were for workers as unlike before I think Americans workers are going have to consume less as a result of the crisis in the rate of profit.
I always thought the American Dream was to go to a new continent rape some indians and to get black African slaves to do all your work for you. As a matter of fact, it's mostly dead... However, it lives on in the hearts and dreams of many Americans.

[fabiansocialist]

For commodities to turn into more money then capitalists started with capitalists require growing consumption. The capitalists are very worried about this collapse in consumption, they are well aware that if the trends continues they would be looking at period of a profit rate of zero or worse a profit rate below zero.

You are correct. And this was foreseen by Marx as one of the contradictions of capitalism: workers don't get paid enough to consume what they produce. Capitalists have traditionally circumvented this by finding new markets, by finding cheaper sources of labor and resources -- also foreseen by Marx. Until the crisis becomes a global one. And even here capitalists have postponed the day of judgement for the last thirty years by letting private and public debt run riot. But even indebtedness can only go to certain limits. Right now is probably the day of reckoning.

The American dream was baloney. It was a half-truth in the 19th century in the USA, when there was a virgin continent to rape and pillage. But it became ever more a lie in the 20th century. And today anyone who still entertains it is either an imbecile or a lunatic.

[Psy]

You are correct. And this was foreseen by Marx as one of the contradictions of capitalism: workers don't get paid enough to consume what they produce. Capitalists have traditionally circumvented this by finding new markets, by finding cheaper sources of labor and resources -- also foreseen by Marx. Until the crisis becomes a global one. And even here capitalists have postponed the day of judgement for the last thirty years by letting private and public debt run riot. But even indebtedness can only go to certain limits. Right now is probably the day of reckoning.

Right



The American dream was baloney. It was a half-truth in the 19th century in the USA, when there was a virgin continent to rape and pillage. But it became ever more a lie in the 20th century. And today anyone who still entertains it is either an imbecile or a lunatic.

During the 1990's consumption (just the act of consuming) become the opiate of the masses so during the 1990's the masses despite material realities tried to live it and for a short period of time.

Americans in the 1990's consumed at record levels via credit that created a boom through the 90's in expanding the capacity to meet the sudden jump in consumption that was extending through the 2000's by hiding debt to keep the party going. The logic of the 1990's was not worry about the exploitation of the proletariat or stagnation as the average American worker could borrow the money for a nice suburban home with a big screen TV and gas guzzling SUV, that past logic is now bitting workers and the capitalists in the ass (that plus the fact they never really solved the stagnation of the 1970's so now they have stagnation again yet with much more debt)

[Psy]

Just restating this since I've had time to refine my thoughts.

In light of the current economic crisis it seems that the revised American dream of the 1990's is now over for both the proletariat and bourgeoisie. For the bourgeoisie the dream of frictionless class relations is over as the proletariat can no longer be bought off with cheap credit as the credit system has over extended to the point of collapse due to a lack of new value in the foreseeable future to cover the credit currently in the system. For the proletariat the dream of avoiding conflict with the capitalist class is over as the proletariat is faced with either resisting the capitalist class or surrender the major gains their class made over the decades.

It seems capitalism has passed into a new era, a era were capitalism can no longer maintain the facade of capitalism enriching workers and the capitalist propaganda of the 1990's is quickly becoming obsolete due to the new material conditions of the capitalist market.

[Brother No. 1]

Was there even an "American Dream" to begin with. From my point of view and i live in the most Anti-Socialist country The USA it never even began its just lies

[BlackCapital]

I think it existed in a sense, obviously not nearly as romantically as it was and sometimes still is portrayed. I see it basically as the idea that the U.S. was an economic free-for-all, and you were free to do more here then in various other countries. I believe there was some truth to that, but it was of course only possible through the exploitation of others. I think of it like Scarface sort of.

Now that the capitalist economy has run its course wealth and power is in heavier concentration than ever before, we don't have the abundance of resources we once did, and we've plundered and pillaged most of the easily accessible countries to profit from. The proletariat is much worse off not only here but world wide, and we're about to come to a crossroads.

Will the Obama administration Co. pump out a limited amount of social programs (as FDR did) in an attempt to jump start consumption again and keep the public at bay, or will the population of western civilizations begin to degenerate to a third-world level?

....Or will the castles be stormed and the rulers overthrown?

[Brother No. 1]

it really depends what obama does comrade but here in the United States of America everyday is hell for me.

[Psy]

Will the Obama administration Co. pump out a limited amount of social programs (as FDR did) in an attempt to jump start consumption again and keep the public at bay, or will the population of western civilizations begin to degenerate to a third-world level?

....Or will the castles be stormed and the rulers overthrown?
The problem is the US goverment already consumes far more then it did during WWII so I doubt the US government can consume its way out of the crisis.

[Brother No. 1]

it will mostly likely fall like all capitalist Goverments do and the next Goverment who knows.

[Psy]

it will mostly likely fall like all capitalist Goverments do and the next Goverment who knows.
The crisis of capital in not just a American crisis, when there was signs of the rate of profit falling in the late 90's the capitalists just pretended the economy was still booming and hide the growing debt till they could no longer ignore stagnation in 2007 and all that debt suddenly exploded as capitalists could no longer just turn over debt saying there would be more value in the system in the future to pay it off.

In other words we are not seeing US policy or corruption causing problems for capitalism, we are seeing capitalism causing problems for capitalism.

[Pogue]

It still exists, it just remains as ever a bourgeois lie.

[Brother No. 1]

your exactly Right H-L-V-S the lie has been and I have been cursed living under the lie.

[Psy]

There is the question of how the American proletariat will deal with the current crisis in the long run. In the 1990's there was the dream that the 2000's would be better the 1990's instead the 2000's turned out to be a replay of the 1980's were American workers were being exploited more and more even before the current crisis and now we have the crisis were the American workers are being told they have to be exploited even more with no bottom the crisis in sight.

While most workers are just reacting to the crisis, the question is will this be the end of US workers believing in American dream? Would American workers become more cynical? More militant?

It is obvious that even if the US ruling class gets itself out of this current crisis of capital the US working class will never recover under capitalism as the only way for the US capitalist class can solve its crisis is through even greater exploitation of the working class.

[Dust Bunnies]

The American Dream existed?

Never has, never will.

[Psy]

The American Dream existed?

Never has, never will.
It existed as a collective illusion of the American working class.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

It existed as a collective illusion of the American working class.
That's the essential point here. Of course the American Dream never existed; but many people believed it did. And because of this - because many workers imagined that they could work hard and become wealthy and live happily ever after in a capitalist society - capitalism enjoyed a high level of support among the American working class.

Let's hope that illusion has finally been shattered... but I'm not holding my breath.

[marxistcritic]

All these posts make perfect sense, but, im just wondering, what are the chances of the revolution being sparked by all this? Please tell...

[fabiansocialist]

That's the essential point here. Of course the American Dream never existed; but many people believed it did. And because of this - because many workers imagined that they could work hard and become wealthy and live happily ever after in a capitalist society - capitalism enjoyed a high level of support among the American working class.

Let's hope that illusion has finally been shattered... but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, don't wait with bated breath. The US proletariat (sorry, meant "middle class") lives on a diet of hope and illusion. And these become ever more important the more cruel reality diverges from it.

Revolution? It's a long road from disillusionment with the American dream to embracing revolutionary ideology. Let's not kid ourselves.

[Psy]

Yeah, don't wait with bated breath. The US proletariat (sorry, meant "middle class") lives on a diet of hope and illusion. And these become ever more important the more cruel reality diverges from it.

Revolution? It's a long road from disillusionment with the American dream to embracing revolutionary ideology. Let's not kid ourselves.
Lets not forget pre-revolutionary class consciousness changes beneath the surface of society. A revolutionary situation occurs when the masses that had been gaining class consciousness start to speak what they were already thinking and through interaction with others that are gaining class conscious start to become more militant.

This crisis has already caused the American proletariat to start to think about class and as the crisis grows deeper (that it is and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future) the American proletariat will think more and more about class. It will become more and more clear to the American proletariat that they are the ones being sacrificing to get out of the crisis while the capitalists are bailed out with tax dollars to prevent them from having to sacrifice anything during the crisis.

[BakuninFan]

There never was an "American Dream". The American Dream was, and is, a method of hegemony on the working class, making them believe that if they participate in the Capitalist system, they may, eventually get what they desire. This obviously doesnt happen.

[fabiansocialist]

There never was an "American Dream". The American Dream was, and is, a method of hegemony on the working class, making them believe that if they participate in the Capitalist system, they may, eventually get what they desire. This obviously doesnt happen.

Such pieces of propaganda usually have some material basis. The "dream" did mean something for some workers in the period 1945-1973 (a "golden age"). Provided unionised workers did their shitty repetitive jobs, they had a standard of living better than their parents and grandparents. They could buy a modest house out in the 'burbs, send their children to college (who would presumably have even better lives than they), and have some sort of pension. This was the golden age of American capitalism and imperialism, with "defence" and suburbanisation providing a tremendous fillip to US capital. And so US capital was willing to share a bit for the sake of domestic peace and quiet. But this social contract has completely unraveled during the last three decades.

[Dimentio]

Is the American dream (or should I say American delusion?) over? I know Americans are hoping to return to the ways things were in the 1990's before the stagnation of the 2000's and the crash of 2008. I don't see how things got go back to the way they were for workers as unlike before I think Americans workers are going have to consume less as a result of the crisis in the rate of profit.

The only way for America to keep the superprofits is to somehow expand the American empire into a formal empire where the motherland is not anymore buying services but rather coercing them out of nations like China. The problem is that the USA is not ideologically and martially ready for such an endeavour.

[cyu]

Yeah, don't wait with bated breath. The US proletariat (sorry, meant "middle class") lives on a diet of hope and illusion. And these become ever more important the more cruel reality diverges from it.

Revolution? It's a long road from disillusionment with the American dream to embracing revolutionary ideology. Let's not kid ourselves.

Sounds like defeatism to me. While cynicism may sound cool, you can't be both a defeatist and a revolutionary. The defeatist says it can't be done. The revolutionary is trying to do it. These are mutually exclusive.

If you really were a revolutionary, then you should instead be discussing strategies or implementing strategies after you've decided on one, such as figuring out how to help people like this:

http://www.workersunitedunion.org/content/hartmarx-workers-vote-sit-save-their-jobs-tarp-recipient-wells-fargo-threatens-close-obama-s

http://www.workersunitedunion.org/content/rochester-hickey-freeman-workers-vote-stage-sit-if-bailed-out-bank-attempts-close-company

[fabiansocialist]

Sounds like defeatism to me. While cynicism may sound cool, you can't be both a defeatist and a revolutionary. The defeatist says it can't be done. The revolutionary is trying to do it. These are mutually exclusive.

It's not a question of cynicism, which I eschew. It's that the American worker hasn't yet acquired a class consciousness; he doesn't see himself as one of a proletariat which is getting shafted as a class. He still sees himself as a member of the "middle class," in a society where opportunities are open to all, and where those speaking against such propagandistic nonsense are commies, extremists and terrorists. That's why the meaningless drivel of "hope" and "change" had such traction in the USA some months past, whereas elsewhere in the world they would puke to listen to such obvious bullshit.

The USA is not Europe. The European proletariat has fewer illusions about itself, and about who is doing the exploiting. And the European bourgeoisie quakes when it thinks of the restive working class.

Does this mean there is no hope for the USA? No, but there are more obstacles, and more preconditions to be fulfilled for revolutionary change. After all, it's the belly of the beast, and one would expect revolutionary change in such a reactionary, militaristic, oligarchic, repressive and brainwashed country like the US to be more difficult. And so this is why I say don't wait with bated breath.

[fabiansocialist]

Here (http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/an-auto-gant-falls-and-workers-pay-the-price/) is a good essay published today at dissidentvoice on the death of the American dream. The essay is worth reading in toto, bit I just want to quote the following bit:


The collapse of GM is a signal moment in the history of U.S. capitalism. A stronger and more militant labor movement could seize the opportunity to call for new economic priorities that not only maintain good-paying manufacturing jobs, but create millions more of them.


Instead, the bankers and their enablers in the Obama administration are calling the shots. That means the autoworkers and other workers will keep paying the price for this crisis — until they’re organized enough to fight back.

The question is: Why are they not organised? I argue that it's because of a lack of class consciousness and political ideology. US workers movements are not revolutionary. Instead their role is to fight a rearguard action to salvage some jobs, some benefits,, some wages. It's defensive and with their backs to the wall. Nothing revolutionary can come out of this. A sit-in here and there is not going to be the spark or the catalyst for a broader revolutionary movement.

[cyu]

The question is: Why are they not organised? I argue that it's because of a lack of class consciousness and political ideology. US workers movements are not revolutionary. Instead their role is to fight a rearguard action to salvage some jobs, some benefits,, some wages. It's defensive and with their backs to the wall. Nothing revolutionary can come out of this. A sit-in here and there is not going to be the spark or the catalyst for a broader revolutionary movement.
Again, my criticism still stands. You point out problems, but where is the discussion of alternative strategies? What would you encourage people to do instead? What steps are you taking to achieving the goals you want - I don't want to sound like a cheesy motivational speaker, but I don't want to hear excuses, I want to see action (or at least discussion of action).

[fabiansocialist]

Again, my criticism still stands. You point out problems, but where is the discussion of alternative strategies? What would you encourage people to do instead? What steps are you taking to achieving the goals you want - I don't want to sound like a cheesy motivational speaker, but I don't want to hear excuses, I want to see action (or at least discussion of action).

Your question is analogous to asking Lenin in 1905 why he wasn't starting his revolution right then. The time has to be propitious. The USA has to be in a state of true pandemonium for revolutionary change to be possible. Until then -- *shrug* -- the sit-in here and there. What would I encourage people to do? What Lenin did when WW1 broke out -- he retired to a Swiss library and started to study Hegel. People should prepare themselves ideologically. Action is easy but without some ideological foundation peters out fruitlessly. Sorry if this answer doesn't satisfy you and you want to jump in guns blazing.

[cyu]

he retired to a Swiss library and started to study Hegel. People should prepare themselves ideologically. Action is easy but without some ideological foundation peters out fruitlessly. Sorry if this answer doesn't satisfy you and you want to jump in guns blazing.

Actually, this is good (or at least better). Study is indeed action, after all, whether it's study of politics, rhetoric, economics, psychology, or military tactics. At least it's movement toward your goals.

OK, so let's say you've done some studying (which hopefully you've been doing already), and you've seen the problems as described in your previous posts. How would you apply what you've learned to the problems previously described? If you encounter an unconverted person or someone who is generally on your side but feels powerless, what would you say to them?

If you don't feel you've studied enough to actually make that encounter successful, then what do you feel are the most important things to study in order to make that encounter successful? For example, what works are you reading now and what do you hope to gain from them?

[fabiansocialist]

OK, so let's say you've done some studying (which hopefully you've been doing already), and you've seen the problems as described in your previous posts. How would you apply what you've learned to the problems previously described? If you encounter an unconverted person or someone who is generally on your side but feels powerless, what would you say to them?

If you don't feel you've studied enough to actually make that encounter successful, then what do you feel are the most important things to study in order to make that encounter successful? For example, what works are you reading now and what do you hope to gain from them?

To the people I meet in my day-today life who are perplexed by what is happening, I suggest books like "Why Read Marx Today?", by Jonathon Wolff, or "An Introduction to Marxist Economic Theory," by Ernest Mandel. Both are slim books, not overly taxing, and within the ken of anyone with at least a high school diploma. They need to make a "gestalt switch" from one framework (the garbage spewed out by US mass media) to another (a Left outlook) -- but individual facts and ideas are obviously not enough. These two books give them that framework they need.

[piet11111]

its not a matter of the proles being class conscious or not its entirely a crisis of leftist leadership.

where are the credible fighting organizations that represent our interests ?
its only a whisper that i can find when it comes to revolutionary leftism these days and even then i have to look for it.

the revolutionary left has no voice that the people can hear these days and we should do more to reach out to them instead of relying on websites that only those that are already revolutionary seek out.

[fabiansocialist]

its not a matter of the proles being class conscious or not its entirely a crisis of leftist leadership.

where are the credible fighting organizations that represent our interests ?


Maybe not in Holland, but lack of class consciousness is a problem in the USA. Furthermore, if the class consciousness does exist then organisations to give it a tangible basis will come into being (I think).

[cyu]

I suggest books like "Why Read Marx Today?", by Jonathon Wolff, or "An Introduction to Marxist Economic Theory," by Ernest Mandel. Both are slim books, not overly taxing, and within the ken of anyone with at least a high school diploma. They need to make a "gestalt switch" from one framework (the garbage spewed out by US mass media) to another (a Left outlook) -- but individual facts and ideas are obviously not enough. These two books give them that framework they need.

Sounds good. Let's say I'm that guy you're talking to and I'm hestitating about whether I want to devote my time to reading a book that some random guy on the street / internet (ie. you, no offense =) just told me about. What kind of synopsis / "executive summary" would you give him.

Some people don't even like to finish reading long feature-length magazine articles or what they'd call "wall of text" posts on the internet - so it would be handy to get some of the main points across and then point them to the more detailed stuff afterwards, if they want more in-depth analysis.



we should do more to reach out to them instead of relying on websites that only those that are already revolutionary seek out.


Agreed - whether leftists currently have enough of a voice or not, we can always use more outreach. Are there any particular efforts or strategies you like or would like to expand?

[fabiansocialist]

Sounds good. Let's say I'm that guy you're talking to and I'm hestitating about whether I want to devote my time to reading a book that some random guy on the street / internet (ie. you, no offense =) just told me about. What kind of synopsis / "executive summary" would you give him.

The first thing I emphasise is that the rich and powerful are not bastards -- or more accurately, that they are bastards but if we were in the same position, we would be act the same way -- it's the structure of the class system that needs to be focused on. This is one big conceptual jump. Secondly, the way the system is configured is there have to be many losers for there to be a few winners. Next, that exploitation is required by the system because profit ultimately comes from the difference between what labor produces and what it gets paid (surplus value) -- here it's possible to get highly technical but I gloss over the many subtle points. Next, since workers collectively are also consumers they can't afford to buy everything they produce -- so the system is inherently volatile, like a roller-coaster. And the dynamic of searching for lower-cost labor, cheaper raw materials, and export markets is a key dynamic in modern capitalism. In this dynamism, the worker is subject to increasing exploitation and increasing insecurity. This is my basic spiel.

[GiantBear91]

The American dream is a lie/illusioun made by the capitalist who run the US for more people to buy into the capitalist propaganda... In all simplicity, there has never been a "American Dream". It is all bullshit.

[Psy]

The American dream is a lie/illusioun made by the capitalist who run the US for more people to buy into the capitalist propaganda... In all simplicity, there has never been a "American Dream". It is all bullshit.
Yes the American Dream exists as an illusion, meaning the only qualifier for the American Dream to exist if for workers to believe it exists, once Americans workers stop believing in the American Dream the American Dream would cease to exist as a collective illusion of the American proletariat

My point is the current material conditions of the US proletariat is currently is a direct contradiction to the American Dream. If a thirsty man sees imaginary water, sooner of later the thirsty man will clue in he is still thirsty when he tries to drink the mirage and eventually come to conclusion that there was no water. Same with the American proletariat, soon or later no mater how hard they believe in the American Dream reality will still slap the American proletariat in the face as the capitalist class makes the proletariat pay for every cent of the crisis.

[TrueLeninist]

Hello my friend. And yes, it is sad that this nation which was an economic powerful nation, has been destroyed by the corrupted plutocratic Democrat and Republican Parties, along with the different corporate lobbies, with the zionist lobby, and with the capitalist philosophy that has been the main culprit, the great ideology in the essense of America.

The Free Market egocentric, selfish ideology of Ayn Rand, Adam Smith, John Locke, John Stuart Mill and other bourgeoise thinkers and egoists.

We must burry that ideology as failed and wrong and give way toward Leninist, Marxist, liberation-Christian, humanist and socialist, collective ideology and doctrine.

USA was a very developed nation producing a lot of wealth, and statibility for most US citizens compared other poorer countries and to third world nations with more corrupt governments.

USA has never been a socialist nation, however the capitalist-welfare american system provided stability for most americans thru the a "trickle down capitalist welfare system".

Unfortunately, thanks to the mafia-cartels of both capitalist parties (Democrats and Republicans)this 'trickle down welfare capitalist system' which has provided stability for most of americans is coming to an end ending !!

THE MAIN REASON OF WHY USA CITIZENS ARE NOT REVOLTING, IS THAT THE US CENTRAL BANK (FEDERAL RESERVE) IS PUMPING DOLLARS INTO THE US ECONOMY WITHOUT END, AND BACKING THOSE DOLLARS WITH LOANS. HOWEVER SOONER OR LATER THE US ECONOMY WILL GRIND TO A HALT !!

IN OTHERS WORDS THE US CITIZENS ARE NOT REVOLTING BECAUSE USA IS NOT AT A REVOLUTIONARY OBJECTIVE SITUATION YET !!

.Sooner or later this 'tricke down welfare capitalist system' will not provide bread for all, and will morph a plutocratic corporate capitalist system that can only provide stability, food and wealth for the upper bourgeoise classes of America

when that time comes we will see a revolutionary situation, when the proletariat take the bull by its horns and overthrows the corporate corrupted capitalist system for complete emancipation of the workign classes of this country

HERE ARE THE MAIN 3 TRAITS OF A REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION IN USA:

# 1 - When it is impossible for the rich people of this country (like Bill Gates, Jennifer Lopez, Tom Cruise, Donald Trump, Al Gore, Ross Perot, Dick Cheney, etc.) to maintain their wealth without any change; when there is an economic crisis, in one form or another, among the rich people, a crisis in the policy of the rich ruling class, leading to a fissure through which the discontent and indignation of middle and lower classes of America burst forth. For a socialist-revolution to take place, it is usually insufficient for the middle and lower classes not to want to live in their old comfortable and stable way; it is also necessary that the rich upper millionaire class should be unable to live in their old comfortable way.

# 2 - When the suffering and the needs of the middle and lower working classes of this country have grown more acute than usual

# 3 - When, as a consequence of the above causes, there is a considerable increase in the activity of the middle and working classes, who uncomplainingly allow themselves to be robbed in peace time, but, in turbulent times, are drawn both by all the circumstances of the crisis *and by the upper classes themselves* into independent historical action.



Is the American dream (or should I say American delusion?) over? I know Americans are hoping to return to the ways things were in the 1990's before the stagnation of the 2000's and the crash of 2008. I don't see how things got go back to the way they were for workers as unlike before I think Americans workers are going have to consume less as a result of the crisis in the rate of profit.

[ckaihatsu]

The American dream is flawed if we all got rich over night by the tooth fairy the economy would be destroyed has the money would lose value if we all where billionaires.That is why we cannot print are own money.The inflation would be too high.


---





[W]e can fall into the trap of talking about the money supply *itself*, as the nationalists would have us do, or we can talk about economics from the standpoint of the working class. *How many* of those dollars or scrip notes will be heading our way, exactly?

Considering that -- contrary to the complexities of manufacturing -- there are usually no elaborate supply chains in the *service* sector (just several layers of parasitic management), then the issue becomes *who* gets to be waited upon, and how much is going to actually be *paid out* for that service?

When we look at it from the perspective of *wages*, the money supply isn't as much of a concern any more. If *more of* the money supply ends up in the pockets of the workers, independently from the concerns and politics of the propertied class, then that's a *proportional shift* of economic control from ownership to labor -- (and all that *exists* is labor and capital...).

You simply *won't* hear the supply-side arguments flipped over into labor's hemisphere, as in "Oh, no, we're seeing a slowdown in consumer spending due to a lack of paying work positions and sufficient incentives for people to gain employment -- quick, let's monetize the labor sector with subsidized wages in order to get production going again...!"

That's, of course, because in class war terms this is giving in to the working class -- it would *not* be in the bourgeoisie's best interests to empower labor because a shift in economic power (as we saw during WWII) would embolden the working class *politically*, towards labor strikes, factory occupations, revolutionary movements, and so on.

Please see:

Labor & Capital, Wages & Dividends

http://tinyurl.com/6bs6va

[Psy]

[W]e can fall into the trap of talking about the money supply *itself*, as the nationalists would have us do, or we can talk about economics from the standpoint of the working class. *How many* of those dollars or scrip notes will be heading our way, exactly?

Considering that -- contrary to the complexities of manufacturing -- there are usually no elaborate supply chains in the *service* sector (just several layers of parasitic management), then the issue becomes *who* gets to be waited upon, and how much is going to actually be *paid out* for that service?

When we look at it from the perspective of *wages*, the money supply isn't as much of a concern any more. If *more of* the money supply ends up in the pockets of the workers, independently from the concerns and politics of the propertied class, then that's a *proportional shift* of economic control from ownership to labor -- (and all that *exists* is labor and capital...).

You simply *won't* hear the supply-side arguments flipped over into labor's hemisphere, as in "Oh, no, we're seeing a slowdown in consumer spending due to a lack of paying work positions and sufficient incentives for people to gain employment -- quick, let's monetize the labor sector with subsidized wages in order to get production going again...!"

That's, of course, because in class war terms this is giving in to the working class -- it would *not* be in the bourgeoisie's best interests to empower labor because a shift in economic power (as we saw during WWII) would embolden the working class *politically*, towards labor strikes, factory occupations, revolutionary movements, and so on.

You also don't hear the logic that if there is rampant devaluation caused by overproduction how is that exactly a crisis to workers? If a $6 million factory becomes worth only $3 million why should its workers care if workers as a class existed in a vacuum? Peasants didn't care how much their lords earned so why should proletariat care what their capitalists masters earn? During the peasant revolts the peasants didn't sympathize about poor feudal lords bring victims of the market so why should labor unions care about the profitability of the capitalists? Why should workers consider this crisis their problem to fix for the capitalists? Why shouldn't workers respond like French workers in May 1968 "the economy is sick, I hope it dies"?

[Psy]

The more this crisis runs its course the more it looks like the American Dream is over. Back in the 1980's while the working class was being squeezed the capitalist class was rapidly growing their consumption and the rise of consumer debt in the late 80's allowed workers to consume beyond their wage. Now we are in a situation where even capitalists can't dream of buying a larger yacht simply by cutting back wages as most wages cuts and lay-off don't even stop the hemorrhaging of money as capitalists are finding themselves in a situation where they have to squeeze the workers just to cut their losses due a negative rate of profit. The crisis of over production now is so large it threatens the entire global capitalist system and not even the capitalist class is immune from the deviation of commodities and it looks like this is only the tip of the ice berg as China currently is stockpiling commodities in hopes demand will pick up in 2010 but if it doesn't the result would be China dumping all these stockpiled commodities onto a already saturated market that might case capitalism to crash due commodities being far too cheap for profits to be possible as capitalists cut the bottom out of all markets as they try to cut their losses.

[Ol' Dirty]

An African American, from a single parent household, was elected president. The American "delusion" as you call it is alive and well.

Though Obama is black, he is certainly not a Middle Passage Afro-American. His father was a Kenyan immigrant rather than the descendant of the West Coast or Indian Ocean African Slave Trade. Obama doesn't have the "black anger" that many Afro-Americans still harbor over slavery, which helped him get elected. Jackson and Sharpton were hindered by the fact that they were descendents of slaves. Obama wasn't, which allowed his victory.

Regarding the American Dream and its "death," it depends on which American Dream you're talking about. Are you talking about the slaves Dream of her children having a better life than her, or the dream of having more appliances and a nice car? The Dream of the Ozark native to not have to breathe in coal dust at his place of work, or the Dream of having a nice new iPod Touch? The Dream of the Amerindian that someday his people might someday stop living in third-world conditions in the wealthiest place on Earth, or the Dream of the Chicago School libertarian to get better profits? Martin Luther King Jr.'s Dream, or Martin Van Buren's Dream?

My American Dream is that someday, every American child -from the Aleutians to the Falklands- gets nutritious food to eat, clean water to drink, a hygeninc hospital at which to receive medical care, and a school at which to learn. It's not the capitalist American Nightmare of long work days an insufficient means. I do think that the American Nightmare can end, and that it can be supplanted by a Dream.

[Lolshevik]

So, class consciousness in the U.S. is low, millions of workers have illusions in capitalism, but because this is not an immediately revolutionary situation we should... retire to Switzerland and brush up on Hegel?

There is nothing inherently anticommunist about the American proletariat. Yes, many American workers still have illusions in the American Dream - but these illusions are daily being shattered, and they can't be built back up like they were in the past. The U.S. ruling class is a bourgeoisie in decline. It's not enough to complain about the "backwardness" of American workers and it's wrong to use the level of difficulty as an excuse for inaction. Study is vital, but you also need to get out there.

I think the history of failed revolutions of the 20th century, from France to Portugal and Chile (& more), show that even during the worst opportunities for revolutionary change we have to do everything we can to build a foundation of support for those ideas, among the advanced layers of the proletariat. That way, when a revolutionary situation occurs, we'll be ready. The worst thing we can do is to use the difficulty of the here and now as an excuse to not prepare for tomorrow, because if we don't lay the groundwork now, when the opportunity arises we won't have sufficient strength & support to take advantage of it.

[Psy]

Regarding the American Dream and its "death," it depends on which American Dream you're talking about. Are you talking about the slaves Dream of her children having a better life than her, or the dream of having more appliances and a nice car? The Dream of the Ozark native to not have to breathe in coal dust at his place of work, or the Dream of having a nice new iPod Touch? The Dream of the Amerindian that someday his people might someday stop living in third-world conditions in the wealthiest place on Earth, or the Dream of the Chicago School libertarian to get better profits? Martin Luther King Jr.'s Dream, or Martin Van Buren's Dream?

My American Dream is that someday, every American child -from the Aleutians to the Falklands- gets nutritious food to eat, clean water to drink, a hygeninc hospital at which to receive medical care, and a school at which to learn. It's not the capitalist American Nightmare of long work days an insufficient means. I do think that the American Nightmare can end, and that it can be supplanted by a Dream.

The modern American dream started in the 1980's with the explosion of venture capital as idle capital become more and more of a problem for global capitalism. For capitalists the American dream became tapping into venture capital and making tons of profit, for workers it was consuming more thanks to explosion of consumer credit (also thanks to the explosion of venture capital). So basically the dream was for workers to borrow against future wages to consume more so capitalists could make tons of profits and the delusion that wages would be higher in the future, this crash is the market realizing wages are not going up but down so workers borrowing against their future wages doesn't really hold much collateral any more.

[Die Rote Fahne]

The American dream is the dream of any capitalist. It is a dream of greed and exploitation.

You go from proletariat to bourgeois, if you're lucky. When you reach bourgeois you forget your roots and follow the lines of any capitalist.

[ckaihatsu]

The modern American dream started in the 1980's with the explosion of venture capital as idle capital become more and more of a problem for global capitalism. For capitalists the American dream became tapping into venture capital and making tons of profit, for workers it was consuming more thanks to explosion of consumer credit (also thanks to the explosion of venture capital). So basically the dream was for workers to borrow against future wages to consume more so capitalists could make tons of profits and the delusion that wages would be higher in the future, this crash is the market realizing wages are not going up but down so workers borrowing against their future wages doesn't really hold much collateral any more.


This is an excellent encapsulation, Psy -- I think there should be more attention paid to *contemporary history*, like this rundown.

I'd be interested, by the way, in anything out there that analyzes the early '80s pop music / cultural phenomenon (New Wave, etc.) in light of the late '70s / early '80s financialization boom. I grew up in that period and have never quite been able to find a comprehensive social history and accounting for that era of neo-romanticism and contemporary cultural renaissance.

Anyone who could throw a link my way along these lines -- it'd be much appreciated!

[Psy]

Since I've been layoff I got a job in the booming industry of gutting factories, warehouses and offices, with the shear numbers of places I gutted it is pretty obvious the American Dream is never coming back as is not like the big empty buildings are going to be offering jobs any time soon and sooner or later there won't be any more means of production to gut that would lead to even more lay-offs.

I think a capitalism has to be overthrown pretty soon as I really think capitalism has passed it plateau and capital is going to be contracting for decades before the crisis of overproduction is solved within capitalism. Also it would be helpful to establish communism before capitalists tear part all the means of production.

[RadioRaheem84]

The American dream died in the late 70s when all of the new reforms and Friedmanism took hold. Ever since then America has used up a giant Mastercard to keep it alive, then the bill came in 2008.

It will never come back unless America decides to return to the Keynesian 50s, yet I doubt that will happen considering many Americans think any program remotely Federal is socialism. They would've hanged FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK if they were alive today.

[Psy]

The American dream died in the late 70s when all of the new reforms and Friedmanism took hold. Ever since then America has used up a giant Mastercard to keep it alive, then the bill came in 2008.

It will never come back unless America decides to return to the Keynesian 50s, yet I doubt that will happen considering many Americans think any program remotely Federal is socialism. They would've hanged FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK if they were alive today.
It is bigger then that, not even Keynesianism can save capitalism, as the center of the crisis is not debt but over production and commodity devaluation. The means of productions are currently far too productive far capitalism to properly function as they are producing an abundance of commodities with relatively little labor value invested causing the value of commodoities to fall.

[ckaihatsu]

The most highly concentrated, ideal form of the American Dream was realized with the building of the Green Zone in Iraq...!


x D