Zionism and Communism

[Phantom]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to communism and was introduced to classical Marxist literature through online discussions. While I was studying Marxism some of my family members and friends turned against me. They claim that communism is not a struggle against class exploitation but a Jewish conspiracy. They've provided me with their so-called facts to prove the Jewish connection to communism from such racist sites:

wake-up-america(dot)net

and white-history(dot)com

And a zealot copied this from somewhere and asked me to prove them wrong:


The overlap b/w Communism & Zionism makes it difficult to treat these as entirely separate movements. A faction of atheistic Jews set up the Soviet Union, and instituted the despotic reign over non-Jews, but Stalin, a non-Jew who got to the top, later stole their conspiracy, for which he was eventually killed. There was an going struggle within the Communist movement between the Jewish and non-Jewish factions; one might say that the Jewish Question created the USSR, but also destroyed it.

The text of Rome and Jerusalem: A Study in Jewish Nationalism (1862) by Moses Hess, the 'Red Rabbi" who converted both Marx and Engels to Communism, and then came out as a Zionist:

The communists are against religion, and they seek to destroy religion; yet, when we look deeper into the nature of communism, we see that it is essentially nothing else than a religion. That the communists seek to destroy all existing religions is not remarkable; all new religions had first to destroy the existing religions, to clear the terrain for its own existence. This was the case of Judaism, Christianity, Mohammedanism, Buddhism, and all other religions. Next, when we disregard the scientific cloak of Marxism, we see that in essence it is nothing else than religion

The fundamentalist (anti-Communist) Jewish Task Force admits the Jewish role in Communism, in its article How Communists Became "Zionists", originally published by JTF.ORG on February 24, 1999:

Everyone has turned against me and call me a Zionist, or the agent of Jews etc.

Help me in countering this propaganda. I know it may all sound hilarious and something not worth wasting your time. But for me it has become serious and urgent.

[Pogue]

Most communists are agains the state of Israel and are supportive of Palestinian liberation.

Communists aim to create a classless stateless society. There is nowhere any mention of giving absolute power to some sort of 'Jewish overlords' or whatever bollocks fascists come up with. That'll get you started. I wouldn't know where to start answering this really because anyone who says Communism is a Jewish conspiracy is incredibly dense. Its just a baseless idea which could be easily demolished and wil be by comrades here. Its just so stupid I'm shocked. Someone who has mroe expeirence with this bullshit will answer you better.

[Das war einmal]

Hmm I should not judge so quickly but perhaps you should look up other friends. They sound like nazi's, they claim that everything is a jewish conspiracy, not based upon facts or whatsoever. It sucks that some family members think alike

[ZeroNowhere]

"We know that violent measures against religion are nonsense; but this is an opinion: as socialism grows, religion will disappear. Its disappearance must be done by social development, in which education must play a part."


A faction of atheistic Jews set up the Soviet Union, and instituted the despotic reign over non-Jews, but Stalin, a non-Jew who got to the top, later stole their conspiracy, for which he was eventually killed. There was an going struggle within the Communist movement between the Jewish and non-Jewish factions; one might say that the Jewish Question created the USSR, but also destroyed it.
Atheistic Jews. :D
So, in other words, we're not even arguing that it's done by members of the Jewish religion, merely engaging in racist bullshit. :)


There was an going struggle within the Communist movement between the Jewish and non-Jewish factions; one might say that the Jewish Question created the USSR, but also destroyed it.
Wait, there was?
Last I remember, Danny De Leon and Debs weren't exactly spending their days whining about Jews.


The communists are against religion, and they seek to destroy religion; yet, when we look deeper into the nature of communism, we see that it is essentially nothing else than a religion.
How very silly. Oh, what the hell, ask them how the nature of communism reveals that it is actually a religion.

[bellyscratch]

Ouch! Seems like a hard situation. I have family that have voted BNP, but they're definatley not this racist. Plus I live in a different part of the country so dont see them much, so its not as bad as your situation.

I dont know much about Zionism or its supposed links to Communism, so I'm not the best to answer this, but I'm sure someone will help out. But if you look at all the people who are protesting against the Gaza bombings and blockades at the moment, you'll find that many who are involved with it will be Communist, and they tend to totally oppose the Zionists.

[Revy]

Just tell them their anti-Semitism is disgusting.
You don't need to prove anything.
Stand up for yourself and tell them they are acting exactly like a bunch of hateful Nazis.

[Kassad]

Whoever you're debating with is obviously malinformed, ignorant and prejudiced. I think if we took a poll of how many people here are atheists and how many people are against the Jewish state on here, I would expect to see a figure around 90%. Ridiculous assertions like that aren't worth your time.

[Phantom]

How would you respond to the article on Moses Hess in Wikipedia (described there as the precursor of Zionism)?

Under the head "Communism", it says:


Hess originally advocated Jewish integration into the universalist socialist movement, and was a friend and collaborator of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Hess converted Engels to Communism, and introduced Marx to social and economic problems. He played an important role in transforming Hegelian dialectical idealism theory of history to the dialectical materialism of Marxism, by conceiving of man as the initiator of history through his active consciousness.

Hess was probably responsible for several "Marxian" slogans and ideas, including religion as the "opiate of the people." Hess became reluctant to base all history on economic causes and class struggle, and he came to see the struggle of races, or nationalities, as the prime factor of past history.

[StalinFanboy]

Don't get defensive with them. Attack what they believe.

[EarthRevolt]

Anti-Semitic people really are fucking stupid. They somehow think that all these millions of Jews in the world are responsible for some conspiracy. Or that by being born into an ethno-religious group you have some kind of natural inclination to be greedy or screw people over, it really makes no sense.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Ridicule them for being so fucking arrogant and stupid.

Sorry, I know they are your family members and friends, but shit like this is borderline insanity. Anti-Communists/Semites just love to say things like "ZOMG Trotsky was a JEW, and so where most of teh Bolsheviks!!" Without providing any evidence to support their offensive and ludicrous claims.

If they call you a "Zionist/agent of the Jews", my advice is to tell them to fuck off and die, because they wont listen to reason if they believe in a "Judeo-Bolshevik conspiracy."

Edit:

How would you respond to the article on Moses Hess in Wikipedia (described there as the precursor of Zionism)?

Under the head "Communism", it says:



Hess originally advocated Jewish integration into the universalist socialist movement, and was a friend and collaborator of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Hess converted Engels to Communism, and introduced Marx to social and economic problems. He played an important role in transforming Hegelian dialectical idealism theory of history to the dialectical materialism of Marxism, by conceiving of man as the initiator of history through his active consciousness.

Hess was probably responsible for several "Marxian" slogans and ideas, including religion as the "opiate of the people." Hess became reluctant to base all history on economic causes and class struggle, and he came to see the struggle of races, or nationalities, as the prime factor of past history.Firstly, that entire section provides no sources for the information written. Second, so fucking what if someone who was Jewish collaborated with Marx? Does this mean that the entire communist movement is all one big Jewish-kabbalistic-banking conspiracy? Absolutely not.

My advice to you is to not waste your time with people who claim these things.