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Asoka89
30th December 2008, 21:35
I would be a revolutionary Marxist in Athens today, maybe even in France and a member of Die Linke in Germany. I would be way to the left of Morales and Chavez in Latin America, to the left of Castro and Ortega... but in the United States I am a member of the Democratic Party. I don't often vote Democrat, but this is the field that I believe progressive forces must do battle in. My conclusion has moved towards the current line of the Democratic Socialists of America, although I'm still a bit to the left of the Communist Party USA. Here is my reasoning.

As painful as it is to admit, Michael Harrington and what he affectionately called his fellow American Mensheviks have been right about the prospects for third parties and independent political action. And let's not forget these were people who came out of the Socialist Party and other parties that pursued "independent political action" even during the popular frontist era of the 1930s

An analysis of American Menshevikism:

U.S. parties are not like modern European parties. In Europe, the parties of the Left tend to name leaders on the basis of a political viewpoint and, in any case, only dues-paying members of the party have the right to elect delegates, who in turn select that leader. But in the United States anyone who declares himself or herself a member of a party can, without the payment of dues or the affirmation of a single political principle, help determine the leadership, program, and policies of the party.

The U.S. electoral system — something which socialists cannot change by an act of will — does not allow for a credible form of "independent political action" (as the Trotskyist and Trotskyist-derived portions of the U.S. Left call it). The real options are to support and build the anti-corporate left wing of the Democrats to the point where either (a) the Democrats become dominated by the left or (b) more likely, the "party" splits along ideological and class lines, or to abstain from electoral politics altogether except as a form of protest, which ensures that American workers will not take you seriously.

I wish it was otherwise. Yes, the Democratic Party taken as a whole is a cesspool. But it's a cesspool in which those fighting for a pro-worker politics have no choice but to wade.

It's true that prior to the 20th century, U.S. primaries were machine-driven, closed affairs. With open primaries the parties became more amorphous — which is why industrial unions in the 1930s were able to influence them in a positive way, within limits. The nature of the American electoral system is what it is, and not to be overcome by an act of will. The reason that third parties haven't become major parties once the ballot access rules were changed in the 1890s is not a failure to try. It's been tried, and tried, and tried again. Similarly, the link of major institutions such as the NAACP and the AFL-CIO to the Democratic Party is not to be overcome by an act of will.

Build the working people's organizations, build the unions, build the progressive forces, but don't expect to build a new Labour Party and then expect the working people to come to you. Then what do you do? Wait for some radicalizing event, some downturn and expect this working peoples party (which would be what-- Social Democratic at best), to become radicalized and turned into a revolutionary party? Its a fantasy.

I wish the situation was different in America. I wish there was a revolutionary force that had any sort of potential. I wish the left-wing of possible could be overcome by an act of will, but unforuntately like Karl Marx himself said, "Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past."

I'll be in the DSA, in the cess pool of the Democratic Party, in the mainstream unions, where the working people are, until you comrades can prove me wrong and build a viable alternative for working people and then I'll apologize and happily join you.

Pogue
30th December 2008, 22:35
I'll be in the DSA, in the cess pool of the Democratic Party, in the mainstream unions, where the working people are, until you comrades can prove me wrong and build a viable alternative for working people and then I'll apologize and happily join you.


Or you could do what we're all doing and try to build a viable alternative for working people rather than taking your current cop-out I can't be fucked line.

Asoka89
30th December 2008, 22:39
Did you bother to read what I wrote.

"It's true that prior to the 20th century, U.S. primaries were machine-driven, closed affairs. With open primaries the parties became more amorphous — which is why industrial unions in the 1930s were able to influence them in a positive way, within limits. The nature of the American electoral system is what it is, and not to be overcome by an act of will. The reason that third parties haven't become major parties once the ballot access rules were changed in the 1890s is not a failure to try. It's been tried, and tried, and tried again. Similarly, the link of major institutions such as the NAACP and the AFL-CIO to the Democratic Party is not to be overcome by an act of will."

The vechile is action independent of the electoral sphere and the use of one of the major voting bloc where ALL major progressive forces in America reside, labor, minorities, feminists, gays, etc. The Democratic voting bloc

Pogue
30th December 2008, 22:52
Did you bother to read what I wrote.

"It's true that prior to the 20th century, U.S. primaries were machine-driven, closed affairs. With open primaries the parties became more amorphous — which is why industrial unions in the 1930s were able to influence them in a positive way, within limits. The nature of the American electoral system is what it is, and not to be overcome by an act of will. The reason that third parties haven't become major parties once the ballot access rules were changed in the 1890s is not a failure to try. It's been tried, and tried, and tried again. Similarly, the link of major institutions such as the NAACP and the AFL-CIO to the Democratic Party is not to be overcome by an act of will."

The vechile is action independent of the electoral sphere and the use of one of the major voting bloc where ALL major progressive forces in America reside, labor, minorities, feminists, gays, etc. The Democratic voting bloc

I.e. the proletariat. Why would you go to them in a capitalist party rather than trying to bring them to you in a new group representing the working class?

Asoka89
30th December 2008, 23:19
I articulated myself in my original piece. This isn't something we are happy about this is a necessity. People actively involved in American politics and the pelciularities of the American political system and society realize this.
----
Consider this. The Republican party continues to lurch to the populist right of Sarah Palin and Huckabee. The Democratic Party maintains its legislative majority, but it has its divisions within. The Democratic Party maybe a "ruling class" party, but there are different interests within it. Evan Bayh is currently forming a senate version of the right-of-center "Blue Dogs" there are still centrist "New Democrats" within the party, but there is a also a progressive Congressional Progressive Caucus, some of whoms members have operative social democratic politics. There will bit of infighting within both parties and the economic crisis can any compound things. A strengthening of progressive forces and friction within both parties could lead to a division of both parties on ideological lines.

It may seem Utopian, but it wasn't too long ago that Dixiecrats reigned indisputably in the south.

gilhyle
30th December 2008, 23:47
I know very little about the DSA, but I read one book by Harrington - Socialism: past and Future, a book I thought quite erudite in parts. However, its fundamental perspective is to aspire to "a shift in culture, in psychology, in the very self-conception of individuals ....." (P.265). THis is an evident lapse in intellectual discipline. Fundamentally, Harrington has no model for how this will come about. He does not see it coming from economic struggles. In that book at least he makes no argument for it coming from argument within the Democratic Party. He concludes "...perhaps there will be a visionary gradualism equal to the challenge of the slow apocalypse in which we now live" (P. 278) And in the end, his politics for all his erudition is no more than that - the expression of an unsubstantiated hope. And why would any individual do that ? To feel better.....and that is all there seems to be to his politics, in the end.

JimmyJazz
31st December 2008, 00:09
I'm a bit vague on your proposal...what does it mean to "wade" in the Democratic Party*?

Vote for them? Work for their campaigns? Run for office on their ticket?

I don't have any objection to the first one, at least not in a swing state. (In a safe state it seems rather inexcusable).


*Here is the DSA's "Where We Stand" document, Section 5: The Role of Electoral Politics:


Democratic socialists reject an either-or approach to electoral coalition building, focused solely on anew party or on realignment within the Democratic Party. The growth of PAC-driven,candidate-based, entrepreneurial politics in the last 25 years leaves little hope for an immediate,principled electoral response to the rightward, pro-corporate drift in American politics. The fundamental task of democratic socialists is to build anti-corporate social movements capable of winning reforms that empower people.OK.


Since such social movements seek to influence state policy,they will intervene in electoral politics, whether through Democratic primaries, non-partisan local elections, or third party efforts. Our electoral work aims at building majoritarian coalitions capable of not only electing public officials on the anti-corporate program of these movements, but also of holding officials accountable after they are elected.So basically, instead of trying to expose people to radical ideas, you're going to take everyone else's perspective as a given, keep your radical ideas to yourself, and work with others on their terms--without trying to shift them to the left? It is hardly as if most Americans have read Marx and rejected him. Next time you're a meeting of one of these "majoritarian coalitions", try asking people what surplus value is, or what capitalism is (they'll give some incorrect answer having to do with the presence of market exchange). Having an organization to spread ideas is more important than having an organization of "socialists for Obama", for the simple reason that we can make a tremendous amount more difference by the former route. A few thousand socialists spread across 50 states do not make or break a Democratic presidential campaign; in essence, they have no effect whatsoever.

Also, is getting Kucinich elected any more likely than getting Nader elected? I don't see any reason to believe so.

The futility of building a third party we can agree on. That you should therefore throw your energies into the DP has got to be the biggest non sequitur I've ever seen.


The U.S. electoral system makes third parties difficult to build at both the national and state level.Winner take-all districts; the absence of proportional representation; open primaries; executive-run governments that make coalition governments impossible; state legislative control over ballot access and election laws all combine to impede third parties. Much of progressive, independent political action will continue to occur in Democratic Party primaries in support of candidates who represent a broad progressive coalition. In such instances, democratic socialists will support coalitional campaigns based on labor, women, people of color and other potentially anti-corporate elements.
Electoral tactics are only a means for democratic socialists; the building of a powerful anti-corporate coalition is the end. Where third party or non-partisan candidates mobilize such coalitions, democratic socialists will build such organizations and candidacies. However, to democratize U.S. electoral politics - whatever its party form -requires serious campaign finance reform both within and without the Democratic Party.Then why isn't this your focus?

davidasearles
31st December 2008, 02:49
Mensheviks without a cause.