Fascism and recession

[Sean]

LLANELLI politicians have roundly condemned a leaflet circulated by the British National Party (BNP) in the town as motivated by hatred.
The leaflet, under the banner Llanelli Patriot, bears the BNP logo and states "billions given away to foreigners, while child poverty eats at the heart of Britain".
But Jeff Hopkins, chairman of the Polish Welsh Mutual Association, said: "The BNP leaflet, circulating in Llanelli, preys on the fears and anxieties of workers who are having to face the deepest financial recession in our country's living memory.
"The attack is aimed at destabilising our political system, and is reminiscent of the attacks perpetrated by National Socialism in Germany during the years before the Second World War.
...
"Not only were leaflets handed out, but we ran out of our supply of Voice of Freedom newspapers, as well as selling a few mugs and Wales BNP badges."
The BNP website declared: "Residents described how they were disgusted with the way Plaid and Labour treated them as second-class citizens.
"Without exception, locals treated us like a conquering army stating they would never vote for traitors again, and that we had their vote."Source: thisiswales.co.uk (http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/place-politics-hate-division/article-574994-detail/article.html)
Most political parties/movements are going to attempt to use the recession to gain political ground, but none more so than the fash. Although in this piece, the BNP state that they are a conquering army (lol), Llanelli doesn't really seem particularly impacted however it does raise the issue of recession.
Why is it easier for some people to blame "Johnny Foreigner" than rich elites? Particularly centered around financial ruin, what arguements (the simpler the better) can be used to dispel this shit? Much as I hate condensing my words, attempting to explain capitalism to strangers without completely boring or confusing the pants off them is difficult.

[redSHARP]

i have been wondering this myself. i am actually worried that if the capitalist system crashes, the fash might have the jump and win the populace. we should counter them with force when possible, and organize speaker nights, charities, concerts, we need to get our name out there!

[rednordman]

This is very unnerving stuff. Im getting this kind of things more and more from people at work. Not that they support the BNP, just they seem to be directing alot of anger at the polish workers. The only positive thing is that when i bring up the fact about the rich elites, they totally agree with me. Mind you its not hard to come to sharp realisations when you are working at a Tescos distribution warehouse. Total scummers i'll tell you. Im posting this message just after finishing work...on new years day!bastards.

[bcbm]

Why is it easier for some people to blame "Johnny Foreigner" than rich elites?

Because the ideas of the ruling class are the dominant ideas in society? The media, etc are always going to come down on the side of business and if its beneficial to scapegoat immigrants then they'll take that route. Beyond that, the elites are probably seen as "one of us," having been present in whatever way for ages while immigrants are an "other," and its much easier to blame the strange than the familiar.

[rednordman]

Because the ideas of the ruling class are the dominant ideas in society? The media, etc are always going to come down on the side of business and if its beneficial to scapegoat immigrants then they'll take that route. Beyond that, the elites are probably seen as "one of us," having been present in whatever way for ages while immigrants are an "other," and its much easier to blame the strange than the familiar. And then some. Its really funny how much people are actually influenced by the media. Give them any fabricated headline...and their blood boils. They do not even bother questioning it anymore. I mean, this morning i had an aquantance lecturing me on why socialism (the whole thing, not only stalinism) is corrupt and everything that marx believed in, was completely embodied within the soviet union, and that is why it will never work, etc, and then goes on to call the new labour government as 'neo-socialist'..what the fuck.

[Melbourne Lefty]

i have been wondering this myself. i am actually worried that if the capitalist system crashes, the fash might have the jump and win the populace. we should counter them with force when possible, and organize speaker nights, charities, concerts, we need to get our name out there!

there is NO chance of the BNP gaining any kind of power.

They simply are no-where near it.

Sadly I dont think the revolutionary left are much closer.

It would take a new and worse great depression to make either far left or fascist victory look even remotely possible. And I doubt the current economic bollocks is bad enough.

[Dr Mindbender]

there is NO chance of the BNP gaining any kind of power.

They simply are no-where near it.

Sadly I dont think the revolutionary left are much closer.

It would take a new and worse great depression to make either far left or fascist victory look even remotely possible. And I doubt the current economic bollocks is bad enough.

Yeah you're right. We may as well give up revolutionary leftism and invest in shares in Esso and Coca cola.

:rolleyes:

The truth is, revolutions have happened throughout the ages and havent always happened where expected. It sounds teeth grindingly cliched but we've no way of telling when or where the 'red mole of history' will pop up next. Personally i think we're overdue.

[Killfacer]

It isn't easier, it's more that the BNP are a relatively well run organisation who stand in a lot of elections. That's why the BNP is bigger than any lefty organisation, because they are willing to use democracy to their own ends.

[Cory]

there is NO chance of the BNP gaining any kind of power.

They simply are no-where near it.

Sadly I dont think the revolutionary left are much closer.

It would take a new and worse great depression to make either far left or fascist victory look even remotely possible. And I doubt the current economic bollocks is bad enough.

In 1914 if someone said "in three years the Czar of Russia will be overthtown in a communist revloution" they would be laughed at.

[Dr Mindbender]

In 1914 if someone said "in three years the Czar of Russia will be overthtown in a communist revloution" they would be laughed at.


Exactly. I once heard Lenin was sitting in a coffee shop being depressed exactly like we were when it kicked off.

[Holden Caulfield]

Sadly I dont think the revolutionary left are much closer.

Strange, you talk of the revolutionary left as if it is something seperate from yourself, as if you are not on the revolutionary left

[Skin_HeadBanger]

Everyone needs to prepare themselves. Get and do whatever you can.

I'm not saying it's imminent, but you never know when it can hit.

[Tower of Bebel]

Recession doesn't necessarily mean the rise of fascism. It is the impotence of a well-organized working class to take power in times of downfall of capitalism which can initiate a fascist counterrevolution. What could happen however is that parties on the extreme-right, with fascist sympathies, like the BNP in England, FN in France, Vlaams Belang in Flanders or the Russian National-Bolsheviks could win the elections. Does this mean a fascist take-over? Or a fascist counterrevolution? Absolutely not. If these parties take office they'll have to abide the rules of liberal, bourgeois capitalism. And the workers' movement might still cooperate with them. It would be an authoritarian and anti-immigrant form of bourgeois politics, but definitely not fascism.

Fascism is a counterrevolution because it smashes the workers' movement through militias and forces a divided, incompetent bourgeoisie to unite itself behind a very authoritarian regime (state). Today's capitalist is not very much divided along different ideological lines (liberalism still rules the day) and is still competent enough to rule the state. Also today's working class is not organized enough to form a threat to the capitalist system. Liberalism is still the main ideology of capitalism, and as long as this crisis doesn't provoke both the downfall of that ideology and the rise of a militant working class extremist parties will have to follow the rules of liberalism (albeit a much more aggressive form), not fascism.

[Melbourne Lefty]

Strange, you talk of the revolutionary left as if it is something seperate from yourself, as if you are not on the revolutionary left

Hi HC thought you might pick up on that...:rolleyes:

Im not sure what I am exactly, Im still figuring it out.

But I know that I do believe that capitalism is a system that exploits the working class, and coming from a working class family that makes me mad.

I dont know if anyone has all the answers, but I do know that people need to start thinking of themselves in terms of class, not race, if things are going to get any better.

And I think a revolution of some kind would be needed to create a society based on need and not greed.

So I believe in revolution, I believe in Class as the only real way to examine the world and I consider myself left wing. Join the dots yourself.

[Melbourne Lefty]

It would be an authoritarian and anti-immigrant form of bourgeois politics, but definitely not fascism.



exactly.

The demi-fascist parties of today dont pose the same threat as the fascist parties of yesterday.

Even groups like the BNP which began as fully fledged Nazi groups are now no more than right populist. The BNP has just come out in support of Israel fer crying out loud!:laugh:

If by some miracle they got to power [which they wont] the political actions of these groups would not be of the same level of the fash of the 30s.

If they did get to power however the backlash amongst immigrant communities and other elements with something to lose from BNP rule would be massive. Perhaps even the kickstart needed for a revolution.

But even so we probably shouldnt send them money...:laugh:

All we need to do is make people see that their interests lie in the realm of class. How do we do that?