Certain jobs and strikes

[Pogue]

Whats the leftist position on strikes within the healthcare system? I.e. a nurses strike, or paramedic strike? People will be taking industrial action but obviously theres the risk of loss of life as a result of no medial workers.

What would you do if there was say, some sort of wide reaching strike or even a revolutionary general strike and you were involved in one of these groups? I know nurses have some sort of clause which says they'll agree not to strike.

Any comrades here a nurse, doctor, paramedic, etc and been in such a situation? What does one do, join the strike? Or not, and help the sick people as normal? Would not joining it because it risks lives make you a scab?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

If nurses have to go on strike, why would you blame them for shutting down the hospital instead of the hospital administrators who created the situation?

Communists always stand with their fellow workers in conflicts with the bosses.

If nurses go out on strike, we support their demands and their struggle.

Workers built everything, why shouldn't we have it all?

[Q]

If nurses have to go on strike, why would you blame them for shutting down the hospital instead of the hospital administrators who created the situation?

Communists always stand with their fellow workers in conflicts with the bosses.

If nurses go out on strike, we support their demands and their struggle.

Workers built everything, why shouldn't we have it all?

That is a rather simplistic attitude, not getting a lot of support among large layers of workers. You can't just say "sorry dude, it's the boss' fault you're bleeding to death now"... :glare:

In strikes in these "vital" sectors, there is often a minimal staff still working (low militancy) or an emergency service organised by the workers (high militancy).

[RedDawn]

What would you do if there was say, some sort of wide reaching strike or even a revolutionary general strike and you were involved in one of these groups? I know nurses have some sort of clause which says they'll agree not to strike.

Q is right. In general strikes sometimes strike hospitals are setup. During the Minneapolis Teamster strike of '34 some nurses worked double shifts, one at the hospital and one at the strike hospital. (the nurses weren't on strike).

The Seattle General strike of 1919 is an example of a well organized strike where social services do not collapse. Unarmed vets patrolled the streets. Stew, spaghetti, milk, and coffee were free. Garbage men picked up wet trash, etc...

[Pogue]

If nurses have to go on strike, why would you blame them for shutting down the hospital instead of the hospital administrators who created the situation?

Communists always stand with their fellow workers in conflicts with the bosses.

If nurses go out on strike, we support their demands and their struggle.

Workers built everything, why shouldn't we have it all?

I think you miss the point, its the whole idea that if nurses went on strike, people would die, how would we resolve this to avoid workers dying. Of course its the bosses fault but still, we'd like to avoid this. I ask because I might be going into a medicla profession.

[Wanted Man]

When does it ever happen that striking workers cause people to die? This is yet another silly hypothetical thread.

[Pogue]

When does it ever happen that striking workers cause people to die? This is yet another silly hypothetical thread.

Clearly not because its taken into consideration by employers and employees alike.

Perhaps for once, before storming in with your condemnation of other people's ignorance or imperialism or whatever arogant bullshit you decide will go down well today, you could read, this way you'll stop looking like a plank.

The example is if all of the workers of a hospital went on strike. There would be no one to help the patients, and so some people would almost definatly die or at least their conditions would deteriate. I want to know how we'd respond to this. Theres a deal between some professions in the UK, such as nursing, in which nurses agree they wont strike because of the risks involved. The police force cannot strike either, according to the rules.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Except nurses do go on strike, and no one dies as a result.

They don't go out unless they're forced by the bosses.

When they do, usually different staff and scabs take over the basic stuff (undercutting the strike).

There's even a traveling scab outfit in the U.S. that sends nurses to hospitals were strikes are occurring: http://www.usnursing.com/

In many cases patients can go to another hospital or clinic.

Like I said though, communists back the workers in these struggles. We raise the same concerns - that people are being put in jeopardy - but we lay the blame with the bosses, where it belongs. The fact that the nurses are so vital clearly demonstrates that it is them that make the hospital go. Why shouldn't they get everything they demand?

General strikes and uprisings are something else. Worker-run hospitals and clinics need to be maintained if at all possible for the sake of patients, fellow workers injured in the conflict, etc.

[Junius]

Actually, I would say that it is more dangerous for a patient's life if the workers did not strike and demand better & safer working conditions, more staff, more funding to hospitals and to be better compensated for the services they do. Health workers better understand these situations than outsiders do, and from what I understand it such actions rarely put someone's life in danger, if ever.

But, if you want to follow your line of reasoning, we could argue that airport strikes should be illegal since they damage commerce, they inconvenience people, they might even prevent organs from being transported in time! We could argue that strikes by fire-fighters should be illegal since they also "put people's lives in danger."

And if we follow that sort of reasoning we could argue that all strikes are potentially lethal - bus strikes, train strikes, water/electricity strikes, dockers strikes.

Like NHIA says, its something that we should naturally support.


Originally posted by Q-Collective
That is a rather simplistic attitude, not getting a lot of support among large layers of workers. And this is an opportunistic attitude. Regardless, I think most working people would support strikes by nurses and doctors because most people recognize the health system for what it is - a profit making mechanism instead of a system which is designed to care for people. Fancy workers wanting a better health system...

[Dominicana_1965]

As communists we must support striking nurses and doctors. Generally when doctors or nurses go on strike they tend to only take care of patients that need urgent care (emergency). And some of these strikes have held some very progressive proposals, for example during the month of April there were more than 5 strikes by doctors in the Dominican Republic and they demanded that the poor (majority) be charged less for medical services and improved conditions.... not a single person died during these sporadic moments.

[Q]

And this is an opportunistic attitude. Regardless, I think most working people would support strikes by nurses and doctors because most people recognize the health system for what it is - a profit making mechanism instead of a system which is designed to care for people. Fancy workers wanting a better health system...
I didn't say we shouldn't support striking healthcare workers. My point was that saying:

If nurses have to go on strike, why would you blame them for shutting down the hospital instead of the hospital administrators who created the situation?
is simplistic.

We as communists should encourage healthcare workers taking things into their own hands (i.e.: setting up their own emergency service, independant from the bosses' control), this will ensure sympathy with the working class in general and put the bosses into an isolated position. Exactly where you want them. Just plainly shutting down the hospital will instead put the healthcare workers into isolation and is thusly a reactionary strategy and one of defeat.

[Pogue]

Thank you very much guys. This was very informative. As you can see I wasn't criticising or saying we shouldn't support hospital strikes I merely enquired as to what we do about the possible consequences. And as an active syndicalist I'm fully aware who is to blame when workers strike, the bosses and the system they're part of.

[Pogue]

Actually, I would say that it is more dangerous for a patient's life if the workers did not strike and demand better & safer working conditions, more staff, more funding to hospitals and to be better compensated for the services they do. Health workers better understand these situations than outsiders do, and from what I understand it such actions rarely put someone's life in danger, if ever.

But, if you want to follow your line of reasoning, we could argue that airport strikes should be illegal since they damage commerce, they inconvenience people, they might even prevent organs from being transported in time! We could argue that strikes by fire-fighters should be illegal since they also "put people's lives in danger."

And if we follow that sort of reasoning we could argue that all strikes are potentially lethal - bus strikes, train strikes, water/electricity strikes, dockers strikes.

Like NHIA says, its something that we should naturally support.

And this is an opportunistic attitude. Regardless, I think most working people would support strikes by nurses and doctors because most people recognize the health system for what it is - a profit making mechanism instead of a system which is designed to care for people. Fancy workers wanting a better health system...

What line of reasoning? I was asking a question. At no point did I say that nurses should not strike. If you read what I said, I was posing a question, thats why I said things such as "Whats the leftist response to this?" and "How do we resolve this" etc. I wanted to know the solution to any problems a strike could pose (because I support any progressive strike) and how we could counter arguments from bosses and right wingers who say striking is harmful or dangerous.

I really do wish people on this forum would be less agressive when questions are asked before accusing anyone with such a question of being some sort of infidel or reactionary.