Defeat the zionist army’s murderous attack on gaza!

[Yehuda Stern]

DEFEAT THE ZIONIST ARMY’S MURDEROUS ATTACK ON GAZA!

Today, the Israeli air force began a wide scale campaign of aerial bombing in Gaza, targeting, among other things, governmental institutions. So far, at least 50 people, many of them civilians, including women and babies, were killed. At least 100 have been wounded.


The interest of the working class and the oppressed masses of the world is to support the people of Gaza against the criminal actions of the oppressive Zionist state. It is true that the leadership of Hamas is reactionary and does not have a program that can unite the Palestinians masses to defeat the Zionist state. For this reason we do not give it political support. However, we see the military defeat for the Israeli state as the lesser evil. Israel is the oppressing nation and the Palestinians are the oppressed people. All Israel is occupied territory!

If we had comrades in Gaza, they would have participated in the war against the Zionist army. As a group that acts within Israel, we say that the main enemy is the Israeli ruling class, and the Israeli government is a murderous government, which sacrifices the mass of Israeli Jews, especially from the South, for its murderous plans.

The only viable way out of the constant bloodbath prepared by the imperialists is the creation of a Palestinian workers’ state from the Jordan River to the sea. This state would be proletarian, but like Trotsky, who recognized that the workers’ republic in South Africa would have the national imprint of the majority of blacks upon it, we recognize that nationally the workers’ state in Palestinian would have the national imprint of the majority of Palestinians upon it.

Having said so, in such a state, all Jews who wish to live in peace would be able to do so, without facing any persecution or national oppression. However, they will have to let go of their past privileges, which today, under the Zionist state, prevent the development of a revolutionary consciousness among Israeli workers.

[progressive_lefty]

Israel, attacked by terrorists, but responds like terrorists.

[Saorsa]

Your party looks like a fucking solid one Yehuda. Keep it up.

[Hessian Peel]

Death to the Zionist entity.

[Yazman]

I think a single state solution is ultimately the best one, although there is no chance of this happening as Israel seems to be utterly unwilling to make any real compromises.

I think Hamas is really fucking reactionary and deserves no support from any of us, however neither do zionists - although they could respond in a far better way than simply bombing the living fuck out of everything (I do certainly think a reaction of some sort is justified here, given there was a period of peace which was abruptly broken by indiscriminate bombing).

[Hessian Peel]

I think a single state solution is ultimately the best one, although there is no chance of this happening as Israel seems to be utterly unwilling to make any real compromises.

I think Hamas is really fucking reactionary and deserves no support from any of us, however neither do zionists - although they could respond in a far better way than simply bombing the living fuck out of everything (I do certainly think a reaction of some sort is justified here, given there was a period of peace which was abruptly broken by indiscriminate bombing).

A reaction by who?

[#FF0000]

(I do certainly think a reaction of some sort is justified here, given there was a period of peace which was abruptly broken by indiscriminate bombing).

Really? I disagree. But I see the state of Israel as illegitimate because 1) I'm an anarchist and ain't no state legit and 2) even if one does believe that a state can be justified, Israel had no claim to the land, and only got it by having the British army force out the former residents. So, no matter what Israel does, just about anything short of dissolving its own state is unjustifiable and oppressive.

[Coggeh]

DEFEAT THE ZIONIST ARMY’S MURDEROUS ATTACK ON GAZA!

Today, the Israeli air force began a wide scale campaign of aerial bombing in Gaza, targeting, among other things, governmental institutions. So far, at least 50 people, many of them civilians, including women and babies, were killed. At least 100 have been wounded.


The interest of the working class and the oppressed masses of the world is to support the people of Gaza against the criminal actions of the oppressive Zionist state. It is true that the leadership of Hamas is reactionary and does not have a program that can unite the Palestinians masses to defeat the Zionist state. For this reason we do not give it political support. However, we see the military defeat for the Israeli state as the lesser evil. Israel is the oppressing nation and the Palestinians are the oppressed people. All Israel is occupied territory!

If we had comrades in Gaza, they would have participated in the war against the Zionist army. As a group that acts within Israel, we say that the main enemy is the Israeli ruling class, and the Israeli government is a murderous government, which sacrifices the mass of Israeli Jews, especially from the South, for its murderous plans.

The only viable way out of the constant bloodbath prepared by the imperialists is the creation of a Palestinian workers’ state from the Jordan River to the sea. This state would be proletarian, but like Trotsky, who recognized that the workers’ republic in South Africa would have the national imprint of the majority of blacks upon it, we recognize that nationally the workers’ state in Palestinian would have the national imprint of the majority of Palestinians upon it.

Having said so, in such a state, all Jews who wish to live in peace would be able to do so, without facing any persecution or national oppression. However, they will have to let go of their past privileges, which today, under the Zionist state, prevent the development of a revolutionary consciousness among Israeli workers.

Your comrades in Gaza would have fought the Zionist army ? I can't say I understand the situation in full as you might living in Israel but my opinion is that Palestinians and Israelis should in a unified front reject both Israeli and Palestinian nationalism ,should condemn rocket attacks from gaza and the brutal almost sadistic zionist attacks seen recently on gaza.

I wouldn't really say I'm for a "two state solution" but certainly a secular state where their is no state culturalism imposed like you suggesting should be done with Palestine .

The priviligies of the jew (again from my understanding) are quite minimal , their would be nothing "give up" but so much to gain in a workers republic where jews ,muslims etc live side by side and work together .

Hamas and Kadima are both enemies of the working class and sprout hate and nationalism in order to justify attacks .

[not_of_this_world]

If Americans knew... (http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/315.html)

[Mister X]

Personally I am very much against the reactionary Hamas, as well as the reactionary state of Israel.
The only realistic solution that I see is the unity of the Palestinian and Israeli working classes on a class and socialist basis and the overthrow of Hamas, Fatah and Israeli capitalism and the creation of a Socialist Federation of Israel/Palestine. (A one proletarian state solution).
There is no room for lesser evilism as no evil is less. We don't want another Iran sprouting out from the "lesser evil" victory of Hamas.

[Yazman]

Really? I disagree. But I see the state of Israel as illegitimate because 1) I'm an anarchist and ain't no state legit and 2) even if one does believe that a state can be justified, Israel had no claim to the land, and only got it by having the British army force out the former residents. So, no matter what Israel does, just about anything short of dissolving its own state is unjustifiable and oppressive.

I agree with you that no state is truly legitimate. We are basically in agreeance on your point number one.

Point number two, however, is where I agree with you in principle but de facto disagree. Regardless of whether we think Israel should exist or not (and I don't think it SHOULD), the fact is that it DOES and ignoring it or disregarding it by simply saying "well it shouldn't exist! dissolve yourselves" comes off to me as relatively ignorant.

I am not defending zionism as it is an ideology motivated by "faith" and not reason and thus in stark contrast to my own ideas, however in my view it seems ignorant to simply brush it off as you seem to do. Whether we like it or not we must deal with the question of Israel beyond our conceptions of whether a state should exist or not because it has existed long enough to establish a firm cultural and social presence - effectively there is an entire cultural unit that now exists that did not previously in modern times (that of Israeli culture and society). Palestinians of course have their own cultural and social presence, and we are now posed with a situation where one culture is dominating another - a situation that existed previously but in a different way - there had been no "Israeli" or society for quite some time, it was simply British domination.

I do not like zionism and I do not think anybody from any religious background is entitled to the occupation of lands simply because they think a mystical being told them so a few thousand years ago, however Israel exists beyond simply as a state. There is an entire populace that is now there, that may or may not agree with the state. Some of them do, some of them don't.

But at the end of the day there is an entire culture and society that has developed and no amount of political reasoning about states will make them go away. I think to really analyse this situation in an effective way you must take into account socio-cultural factors as well, otherwise you are simply sweeping millions of people under the rug while pretending they don't exist.

And they do, whether you like it or not.

****
I am not defending the actions of the Israeli government, I am merely saying that a reaction by them in this way was inevitable and even regular Israeli citizens would be justified in being angry.. What the fuck were Hamas and its supporters thinking? Like was said in the other topic - they respond to indiscriminate bombing in the past, with indiscriminate bombing. They rarely (if ever) target government or military locations with their rockets, preferring to simply shoot them off and kill whoever they can, in the name of their god. I have yet to see any actual logical reasoning on the part of Hamas, and in the period of a TRUCE no less they decided to enact indiscriminate bombing in a location that they HAD TO have known would end up causing retaliation.

The Israeli government was entirely wrong in the way they have responded.. but a reaction OF SOME SORT I can see as being necessary from their point of view whether it was indiscriminate bombing or surgical strikes on Hamas targets. This doesn't mean I think its ok, just that I can see why they did what they did. Its still entirely wrong and fuck zionism.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Just out of curiousity, is there any support for the idea of a Palestinian workers state over there?

I obviously think this is a good solution. However, no matter what we think the best solution is it cannot be implemented unless it enjoys the support of the people.