Your thoughts on... Scientology

[ev]

Okay, as simple as I can put it, what are your thoughts on Scientologists and Scientology as a scam.. i mean religion.. i mean bullshit.

Personally I fucking hate them and their fucked up story-telling beliefs. What is worse is how they can afford the best lawyers in the US due to all the idiots that send them money and are scammed for e-meter tests. I think the governments should outlaw this shit in Australia as these imbeciles pose a threat to national security/dignity.

Really though, shit like this makes me sick.
On 5 April (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_5) 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007) the European Court of Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights) in Strasbourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasbourg) issued a unanimous decision in favor of the Church of Scientology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology) of Moscow.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_Moscow_versus_Russia#cite_no te-0) The case, entitled Church of Scientology Moscow v. Russia (application no. 18147/02),[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_Moscow_versus_Russia#cite_no te-ECHR-Russia-1) overturned the Moscow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow) City government’s refusal to consider the Church of Scientology of Moscow for registration as a religious organization. The Court found that Russia had violated the rights of the Church of Scientology under ECHR Articles 11 (the right to freedom of association) “read in the light of Article 9” (the right to freedom of religion), when it refused to consider the application of Church of Scientology Moscow for reregistration. Specifically, the Human Rights Court determined that, in denying consideration of registration to the Church of Scientology of Moscow, the Moscow authorities “did not act in good faith and neglected their duty of neutrality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality) and impartiality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impartiality) vis-à-vis the applicant's religious community”. The Court also awarded the Church EUR 10,000 in respect of non-pecuniary damage and EUR 15,000 for costs and expenses.

Where will the madness end?! http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h215/ErikaDarmanin/Emoticons/This-Is-Sparta-Smiley.gif
Especially in regard to legislation implemented by the EU in regard to cults and what can be defined as a 'religion', should legislation be changed so organizations such as scientology cannot be classified as a religion? Or should we just execute these individuals for there radical ideas? (I favor the latter)

I should create my own 'religion' where people who hold the faith of 'ivanology' will give me all their life savings and work for me and also vote for me so that I may implement legislation making an ivanology tax where people need to pay a GST-type thing to my church, by doing this one would attain eternal happiness in the afterlife. Word..

So I want your opinion - oh and you need to say "Word.." at the end of your sentence to be cool like me ;)

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Who dare say what they think -- or they risk being followed everywhere they go by guys in sharp suits and shades?

A bit like one never takes on the 'L*Ro*chites'.

[Hit The North]

This doesn't belong in Learning. I'm gonna send it to Politics.

[Angry Young Man]

They have more money than the whole of Russia?
But on a serious note, they're outlawed in Germany.

[Vendetta]

There's worse threats out there for me to care about a bunch of wackos, albeit wackos with funds.

[ckaihatsu]

Capitalists are drawn to tax-exempt status like moths to a flame -- that sums it up right there. The rest is the mythology and the cult, like any other.

Religion is the single best racket there is, because it deals with existence and one's worldview on existence. We're talking pure software engineering for the brain, here....

Quick tip: Get 'em talking, let them spill out their mythology of where-it-all-began, and then just go one step prior to all of that. If they're a monotheist (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, etc.) just remind them that prior to the Axial Age people worshipped *several* gods, which were localized to one's region or village.

(The point being that religion is a * cultural * thing, an identifier, mostly, that enables mass culture and an in-crowd identity -- that's it, no more. Knock 'em off their high chair simply by pointing to their neighbors -- they're *not* the only racket in town...!)


Chris




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-- Of all the Marxists in a roomful of people, I'm the Wilde-ist. --

[ckaihatsu]

Oh, and the South Park episode on Scientology is must-see...!

[Revy]

Well, according to an anti-Scientology website (http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sp/FLA.html), they are stealthily taking over Florida from their spiritual headquarters in Clearwater. Kinda like how the Mormons took over Utah.

[Revy]

They have more money than the whole of Russia?
But on a serious note, they're outlawed in Germany.

Deluded Scientologists mob Ursula Caberta in Florida

Clearwater, USA
August 23, 2000
Hamburger Morgenpost
A Hamburg Scientology chief had warned Ursula Caberta against flying to Florida because, she said, it would be unpleasant for her. But the director of the "Work group on Scientology" flew there anyway - and will not quickly forget her trip to the home of the monster cult.
About 30 Scientology disciples were waiting at the Tampa, Florida airport for the visitor from Hamburg. Ursula Caberta was wildly mobbed, heckled and spat at. The wild chase scene in the Sunshine State is shown on a video sent to MOPO [this newspaper] by U.S. Scientology opponents.

Caberta, who had traveled to the USA at the invitation of the Lisa McPherson Trust, which helps Scientology victims, had to listen to malicious insults. Scientologists screamed over and over at the top of their voices, "Nazi go home!" and "Nazi criminal, go back to Germany!" German Scientologists were also in the "Welcoming Committee." One German woman shorted, "You are a killer, you are. You're killing people in Germany!"
When the staff member of the Hamburg Interior Agency picked up her baggage after the first three minutes of the vicious tirade, leaving the cult mob behind, they broke out in howls and laughter. One woman called, "Hey that was great, we really got her. That'll show her!"
The courageous combatant also reported that she was hounded and insulted by Scientologists in restaurants and in her hotel. Over and over - as can also be seen from the videos - Scientologists appeared with posters. The cult adherents had written "Nazi go Home" and "Take fascism back to Germany!"
Caberta ended up leaving Florida one daily earlier than planned. "It was getting too hot for me there. I was happy to get back to Germany," she said. What had been especially surprising about the type of treatment she had received, said Caberta, was that the German Scientologists always claim they are being hounded here. Caberta, "But no Scientologist in Germany has ever been treated like I was in the USA."
Mike Rinder, one of the top Scientologists in Clearwater, Florida, even repeated the accusations on local TV, that Caberta was a Nazi and had fascistic ideology.
The sect commissioner would really have like to have laughed about this "insanity," "but the matter is much too serious for that!"

--------------------------

Makes you wonder if Tom Cruise's role in "Valkyrie" is not a coincidence and merely marks a pattern of Scientology painting their critics as Nazis/fascists.

[ev]

To me, these dangerous organizations or cults should be outlawed. But yet they are protected under current laws? How would a socialist country deal with such matters, the legislation would have to be different due to the different socioeconomic structure?

[OneNamedNameLess]

Oh, and the South Park episode on Scientology is must-see...!
Ha Ha! That is a must see!

I really don't think Scientology should be much of a concern. If people are naive and vulnerable enough to be attracted to their fallacy and lies then let them.

Perhaps the most laughable feature of Scientology does not lie in thier beliefs but the amount of money which is paid by it's members. Members pay for "courses" which are essential to understanding Scientology for example. Makes you wonder how it has grown so considerably in the past few years as this reflects the true nature of the scam :lol:

[ckaihatsu]

I really don't think Scientology should be much of a concern. If people are naive and vulnerable enough to be attracted to their fallacy and lies then let them.


If we as revolutionary leftists really didn't give a shit about societal issues I don't think we'd even bother *being* here on this board at all (at least *I* wouldn't!)....



To me, these dangerous organizations or cults should be outlawed. But yet they are protected under current laws? How would a socialist country deal with such matters, the legislation would have to be different due to the different socioeconomic structure?


This is more to the point, I think -- why allow anyone to waste their lives (and money) with bullshit when the rest of us _know_ it's bullshit? It doesn't help them, and it has spillover effects onto the rest of society.... (Ever just had a *conversation* with someone whose entire worldview revolves around some sort of god shit? The rest of their intelligence and sanity suffers because of that sinkhole / black hole....)

In a better, worker-controlled society people would have much better choices for their time. This thread of discussion reminds me of one here that's active, about gambling -- it's pretty much the same issue -- a bait-and-switch mindfuck, thanks to capitalism's marketing and profit-making prowess....

[Sankofa]

Another thread on Scientology? :(

They suck...just like all religion.

[PigmerikanMao]

My Thoughts on Scientology?: ...:laugh:

[Drace]

Scientology is a dumb name for a religion.

[DesertShark]

Oh, and the South Park episode on Scientology is must-see...!


Ha Ha! That is a must see!

I really don't think Scientology should be much of a concern. If people are naive and vulnerable enough to be attracted to their fallacy and lies then let them.

Perhaps the most laughable feature of Scientology does not lie in thier beliefs but the amount of money which is paid by it's members. Members pay for "courses" which are essential to understanding Scientology for example. Makes you wonder how it has grown so considerably in the past few years as this reflects the true nature of the scam :lol:
When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought of the South Park episode - great episode.

Anything that tries to exploit money from people is probably a scam: religion, government, creditors, etc. Sadly, a lot of people don't see that and get sucked into such things, but that can only be solved through education and letting people figure it out for themselves.

[Reclaimed Dasein]

Well, according to an anti-Scientology website (http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sp/FLA.html), they are stealthily taking over Florida from their spiritual headquarters in Clearwater. Kinda like how the Mormons took over Utah.
This is very clear. Mormons have a crazy mythology, just like most branches of Christianity. Give Scientology 200 years. It will seem normal enough that they'll be hating gays just along with the right wing evangelicals.

[choff]

I was actually going to come in here and say something along the lines of "The actual history and practices in Scientology - although amusedly portrayed in South Park - are not any more ridiculous than those found in any other major religions. The only thing making it seem more ridiculous to the average person is how new it is." Dasein hit that nail on the head, though, so:

Scientology sucks. I question the sanity of any individual who signs up for a "spiritual" movement constructed by a science fiction writer. Mandating donations and forcing members to cut off ties with families who are not part of the church (there's a term for this, but it's escaping me at the moment) absolutely screams cult.

[Reclaimed Dasein]

I was actually going to come in here and say something along the lines of "The actual history and practices in Scientology - although amusedly portrayed in South Park - are not any more ridiculous than those found in any other major religions. The only thing making it seem more ridiculous to the average person is how new it is." Dasein hit that nail on the head, though, so:

Scientology sucks. I question the sanity of any individual who signs up for a "spiritual" movement constructed by a science fiction writer. Mandating donations and forcing members to cut off ties with families who are not part of the church (there's a term for this, but it's escaping me at the moment) absolutely screams cult.
Yeah, I just remembered the original term for Christianity by its critics which was the cult of the nazarene. Thankfully, an progress made by scientology will ultimately minimal since it has a high entry cost (early Christianity didn't) and it doesn't really have a message for the people.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

John Travolta's (a scientologist) son just died.

His son was autistic and suffered from seizures. Because of of L Ron Hubbards "wisdom", Travolta didn't let his son take drugs to prevent seizures (most likely prescription drug Depekote). My brother has the same condition, and from what doctors have told me someone taking the prescription has virtually no chance of getting a seizure from this stimuli.

Now being reported his son had a seizure, fell backwards and hit his head wrong, which killed him.

I'll never see Pulp Fiction the same way now that I know what a stupid motherfucker he is. I would say something more, but just that's too fucking horrible even for someone as asshollish as me.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Well, according to an anti-Scientology website (http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sp/FLA.html), they are stealthily taking over Florida from their spiritual headquarters in Clearwater. Kinda like how the Mormons took over Utah.

The mormons 'took over' Utah because when they got there they were alone. I don't think any Native Americans even lived in Salt Lake area, the very reason it was attractive to them was nobody else was there.

[Reclaimed Dasein]

The mormons 'took over' Utah because when they got there they were alone. I don't think any Native Americans even lived in Salt Lake area, the very reason it was attractive to them was nobody else was there.
Don't sell the the Mormon's short. They killed a shitton of Utes.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Don't sell the the Mormon's short. They killed a shitton of Utes.

Link?

[Reclaimed Dasein]

Link?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_War_(Utah) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_War_%28Utah%29)

[Invincible Summer]

I know this is from Wiki... but I've read all this stuff before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org


Members of the Sea Org sign an employment contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract) with the organization for one billion years.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org#cite_note-5) Sea Org members, in accordance with Scientology beliefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_beliefs_and_practices), are expected to return to the Sea Org when they are reborn. The motto of the Sea Org is, "Revenimus" or "We Come Back" in Latin.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org#cite_note-apieceofbluesky-2) Official statements from the Church of Scientology contend the contract is merely symbolic of the dedication members are expected to hold to the organization, and that members are free to leave if they wish. It has, however, been alleged by former Sea Org personnel that members are restricted from leaving.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org#cite_note-apieceofbluesky-2) Members who do leave are issued a "Freeloader's bill", retroactively billing them for any auditing or training they have received.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org#cite_note-6) These Scientologists may not receive any services at any Scientology organizations until they pay off this bill and perform an amends project.

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that people follow a religion created by a science fiction writer?

[ckaihatsu]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that people follow a religion created by a science fiction writer?


It's not *nearly* as ridiculous as the underlying racket it's based on -- reincarnation.

A contract for a *billion* years, * really *.

So how do they find the identities of the reincarnated persons, as newborns? That's what *I'd* like to know! I can just picture some goons knocking on a newlywed's door somewhere, thrusting a signed contract into the baby's face!


: D

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Thanks dasein.

[Kassad]

It's brainwashing and falsification. Just like every religion in the present day. It revolves around money, not helping people, but most of all, it is rooted in fear, not love. For any religion to be acceptable, it has to see the world through the eyes of passion and love, not fear and disdain. Very few religions, and especially not the popular ones, embrace unconditional love.

[The New Consciousness]

Scientology is just another example of the insane consciousness. Confused individuals all looking for identity in illusory time, which does not exist. In this case the past being the evil 'Thetan' and the future 'Clearing'.

The worst thing about scientology is that it actually has no spirituality in it whatsoever. It is a pure money-making scam.

L. Ron Hubbard, its founder, once said something like 'If you want to make money, start a religion'.

He was right.

[Revolutionary Youth]

O please, spare me your "insane consciousness"!
But I agree with you, it is total trash!

[Decolonize The Left]

Like all religions: made up nonsense. Not really much more to say...

- August

[AtteroDominatus]

this describes my views on this 'religion': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF5fIHhsHeM

[Jazzratt]

this describes my views on this 'religion': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF5fIHhsHeM

What's the difference between scientology and your god racket in terms of a believable mythos?

[AtteroDominatus]

because mine is older :P

[Jazzratt]

Points for honesty I guess :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Scientologists = Chaos worshippers

Here's my evidence:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cc/Scientology_Cross_Logo.png/180px-Scientology_Cross_Logo.png

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/3230943292_68d467eb29_o.gif

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3230097165_eae543f5b4_o.jpg

it's HERESY! *foams at the mouth with righteous rage*

THEY MUST BE PURGED IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!!!

[Jazzratt]

Scientologists = Chaos worshippers

Here's my evidence:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cc/Scientology_Cross_Logo.png/180px-Scientology_Cross_Logo.png

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/3230943292_68d467eb29_o.gif

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3230097165_eae543f5b4_o.jpg

it's HERESY! *foams at the mouth with righteous rage*

THEY MUST BE PURGED IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!!!

Don't forget, also, that they are obsessed with foul xeno scum. That's extra heretical.

CLEANSE THEM FROM THE FACE OF HOLY TERRA IN THE NAME OF THE GOLDEN THRONE!

[The Intransigent Faction]

I got a message from a Scientologist on YouTube.
I said that I understood psychiatry has been abused, and have had personal experience with this, but some people could actually be helped by medication/therapy or both.
The conversation ended with him actually urging me to get on psychiatric meds because I "support the cult of psychiatry".
Scientology's founder summed everything up very well:

"The best way to make money is to start your own religion."-L. Ron Hubbard.

[Revolutionary Youth]

"the cult of psychiatry"
Now this is funny!:laugh:

[Invincible Summer]

Don't forget, also, that they are obsessed with foul xeno scum. That's extra heretical.

CLEANSE THEM FROM THE FACE OF HOLY TERRA IN THE NAME OF THE GOLDEN THRONE!


They also were responsible for the pool of visual bile that is:

http://www.battlefieldearth.com/news/images/dvdcover.jpg

[Invincible Summer]

More disgusting Scientologist techniques:


The organization's actions reflect a formal policy for dealing with criticism instituted by L. Ron Hubbard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard), called "attack the attacker." This policy was codified by Hubbard in the latter half of the 1960s, in response to government investigations into the organization. In 1966, Hubbard wrote a criticism of the organization's behavior and noted the "correct procedure" for attacking enemies of Scientology:
(1) Spot who is attacking us.(2) Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using own professionals, not outside agencies.(3) Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.(4) Start feeding lurid, blood, sex, crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press.
...

In 1965 Hubbard formulated the "Fair Game Law", which states how to deal with people who interfere with Scientology's activities. These problematic people, called suppressive persons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_Person), could be considered "fair game" for retaliation:
A Suppressive Person or Group becomes fair game. By FAIR GAME is meant, may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines or the rights of a Scientologist.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29#cite_note-3)
Later in December of that year, Hubbard reissued the Fair Game policy with additional clarifications to define the scope of Fair Game. He made it clear that the policy applied to non-Scientologists as well. He declared:
The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29#cite_note-4)
Hubbard made it clear elsewhere in his writings that the policy would be applied to external organizations, including governments, that were guilty of having interfered with Scientology's activities.


It's quite disturbing that it's actually condoned by L. Ron Hubbard himself to basically protect the interests of Scientology by any means possible.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

Scientology is the most disgusting thing on the face of the earth, part Cult, part Corporation and every bit batshit insane.

They basically took over Clearwater Fl by using black ops and they have their own paramilitary outfit.

All power to Anonymous for their protests and all that but...I don't think it'll do the trick.

[Comrade Anarchist]

It is nothing more than a scam (like most religion) with its scammers and the scammed

[Rosa Provokateur]

Having done my own investigation I can honestly say that Scientology is a cult. I asked them for information and was sent a booklet that described it as compatible with all religions (meaning you could still practice other faiths) yet itself a religion. To get more info I looked for a copy of Dianetics; they've got several editions, all cost over $20.00. Most faiths I know of give out their scripture for free: certain Christian ministries, Mormons, etc. and if they saw it as something the world needed they wouldnt charge for it or require $100.00 for membership in their "church". I dont know anything about L. Ron Hubbard and I'm sure there are good people who practice Scientology but it is a scam.

[eisidisirock]

BULLCRAP RELIGION! But let them belive in it if they dont force theyr kid's to do it. And they have to stop with the stupid suicide tests.