When is a Reactionary not a reactionary?

[Dóchas]

I was just wondering when is a reactionary not a reactionary? like if you and another group of people are fighting for the same cause ie. end of capitalism etc but when you do establish a new society the other group turn out to have beliefs contrary to your own. if they fight you to stomp out your beliefs and make their beliefs be known does this make them reactionary? :confused: sorry if the wording sounds awkward i couldnt think of a way to make it simple :blushing:

[Hit The North]

Reactionaries are people who resist change and want to return society to an earlier state. I therefore have a problem understanding your question.

[Dóchas]

Reactionaries are people who resist change and want to return society to an earlier state. I therefore have a problem understanding your question.

oh right i thought reactionary was when someone resisted the revolution

[Dr Mindbender]

Reactionaries are people who resist change and want to return society to an earlier state.

Is the intifada therefore reactionary? I think you have to be careful with your definiton. I think it's more specific than that, they not only resist change generally but most strongly they oppose change to the class system.

[Jazzratt]

A reactionary is a reactionary is a reactionary. Some leftists will tell you a reactionary is not a reactionary when they are fighting for, and encouraging workers to fight for, the national bourgeois of xyz nation, still others think that as long as they make class struggle noises they are not reactionary. This is bollocks, a group that does not support the full emancipation of all of the working class will always end up running counter to a revolutionary movement. This is how it is, and how it always will be.

[Dr Mindbender]

A reactionary is a reactionary is a reactionary. Some leftists will tell you a reactionary is not a reactionary when they are fighting for, and encouraging workers to fight for, the national bourgeois of xyz nation, still others think that as long as they make class struggle noises they are not reactionary. This is bollocks, a group that does not support the full emancipation of all of the working class will always end up running counter to a revolutionary movement. This is how it is, and how it always will be.

Then how do we approach leftists, who say for example, we must support the liberation of Ireland and Palestine at any cost? Is the liberation of an oppressed nation always reactionary if the presence of the imperialist power was the 'greater of 2 evils?'

EDIT: Its similar to the argument put forward by some leftists that trade unionism is reformist in that it only fights within the paradigm of limited gains, such as pay rises rather than fighting for control of the means of production altogether (the latter i support of course). I think Palestinian class consciousness would be at least strengthed by the removal of the zionists, because the Palestinian beourgiose leadership are enabled to point them out as a 'cross class-common enemy'. With this out of the way Palestinian comrades will have an easier time fighting for their own revolution.

[Jazzratt]

Then how do we approach leftists, who say for example, we must support the liberation of Ireland and Palestine at any cost?

Patiently explain why their politics are naïve, perhaps?


Is the liberation of an oppressed nation always reactionary if the presence of the imperialist power was the 'greater of 2 evils?'

Liberation of a nation only occurs with working class revolution, a nation under the bourgeoisie, no matter what nationality the bourgeoisie claims, is not liberated in any sense of the word. As is pointed out during pretty much every bourgeois election we are not in the business of "lesser evil-ism", whether we're removing a greater evil through ballots or bullets it's still ultimately a reformist or opportunist tactic.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Reactionaries are always reactionaries as long as they're resisting change to the class system. They want the workers to be oppressed to put it simply.

[Black Sheep]

like if you and another group of people are fighting for the same cause ie. end of capitalism etc but when you do establish a new society the other group turn out to have beliefs contrary to your own. if they fight you to stomp out your beliefs and make their beliefs be known does this make them reactionary?Well they would not be reactionary,if ,let's say 300 years after the revolution they had discovered a new,better,more efficient and more just system that communism, and we (communists) resisted the change and oppressed them.

We would be the reactionaries in that case.But that scenario is several decades ahead of us.
I would describe a reactionary someone who supports,directly or indirectly,the preservation of a backwards and irrelevant (to the material conditions and production potential) economic & social system, when a far better system is available.

A question: are right opportunists considered reactionaries? and can you judge if someone is reactionary only at revolutionary times?

[Dóchas]

and we (communists) resisted the change and oppressed them.



if we oppressed them we wouldnt be communists would we? :confused:




are right opportunists considered reactionaries?


well if we are going by your defintion of reactionary then yes they would be




can you judge if someone is reactionary only at revolutionary times?


i think so because in the end they will be forced to make a decision if they already havnt, they will either have to join us in the revolution or oppose it