Can your doctor legally lie to you about your options?

[DesertShark]

If you're a woman, s/he can; if this new rule passes.

I first saw this article in Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/id/172593 and it pissed me off and scared me. I looked around and found similar articles:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/16/bush-administration-tryin_n_113199.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/18/america/abort.php
and http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97971002&ft=1&f=1001

The gist is that Bush is trying to pass a last minute thing (whatever it is that presidents can do, a decree maybe?) that would make it legal for doctors to provide false/inaccurate information to women about their reproductive health and options associated with it. This is fucked up and scary. This is far from equality, this is fascism. We can give a man a boner who otherwise wouldn't be able to have one, and then lie to the woman he impregnates or wants to copulate with about her options. Seriously, what the fuck?

What do we do? How do we fix this? Stop it? What other rights will women be denied if this goes through? Will we loose the right to vote? To have jobs? Our own bank accounts? To go anywhere without a man present? Has anyone read A Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood? This has unpleasant similarities.

[Wild_Fire]

What do we do? Stop the Government from passing the legislation.
How do we fix this? Draw everyones attention to this decree/legislation and organise a mass protest.

It can only continue the removal of more of Americans civil liberties.

To be fair, the governments of most countries get away with and know a lot more than what is told in the public arena. That is why organisation and being security conscious is very important in todays societies.

[DesertShark]

What do we do? Stop the Government from passing the legislation.
How do we fix this? Draw everyones attention to this decree/legislation and organise a mass protest.

It can only continue the removal of more of Americans civil liberties.

To be fair, the governments of most countries get away with and know a lot more than what is told in the public arena. That is why organisation and being security conscious is very important in todays societies.
It's not something that is being passed. The president has the power to make executive orders/presidential decrees, some of which have the same standing as law.

I hope that the government doesn't know more then doctors/science about people's health.

[DesertShark]

Update: I heard on the radio this morning that this goes into effect the day before President Bush leaves office, thanks you fascist fucker *flips the bird*

[Potemkin]

This is very disturbing, indeed. I read most of the Newsweek piece you linked to -- this is the "right of conscience" rule or whatever it's called. I think this is the same thing that would allow pharmacists to deny AIDS medication to people if they believe that "God is punishing them" or it's somehow a religious issue for them.

As a man, I can't pretend to understand how frustrating these issues must be for women. We're now a decade into the 21st century and people seem no more enlightened now than we were centuries before. It is 2008 and people are still not equal and in control over themselves! This is madness.

Anyway, what can we do about it? As an anarchist, I wouldn't advocate anything in the electoral arena (although I'm not going to tell anyone not to try to block this legislation). I think what we need is a unified working class that can struggle as one for the overthrow of this system.

Right now, the working class is divided, and the ruling class feeds on this. The ruling class carves out different privileges for different parts of the working class, which effectively stratifies the class, keeping certain sections enslaved through discrimination and others pacified (though still enslaved) with token privileges over others within the class. The political strategy around this idea is called "race traitor" politics. I'll start another thread on this soon.

Basically, it says that the white working class got a "separate deal" with the ruling class -- which accounts for how people "of color" are worse off than whites of the same class, and why whites side with the ruling class more often than not. The idea to overcome this is for people of the white working and "middle" class to toss out their privilege, which leaves the ruling class unable to figure out who get the benefits (from skin privilege, in this example) and who don't. This in turn means that they have to treat everyone the same, and the struggle of the white working class becomes the same as those "of color."

A simple example given is putting a "Free Mumia!" bumper sticker on your car (assuming you are white, of course). To a cop, this is confusing, as he can't tell if you stand where you're supposed as a white person, and might mistake you for a person of color when he is thinking about pulling you over (he can't see the driver, just the sticker in the back). In this instance, you become the same as a person of color in the eyes of the establishment. On a larger scale, this muddies the water, eventually to the point where no special privileges can be given to people based on skin color, because it's not a reliable indicator of what that person's beliefs will be.

I take this a step further. We should have a "traitor" politics in many areas: gender, sex, race, etc. Gender traitor politics, for instance, would include men doing things typically considered female (housework, cleaning, child-rearing, etc.), much moreso than happens now.

It's also important just to educate people. Males (who unfortunately still make up the majority of the ruling class) who are enlightened wouldn't even consider instituting something like this. I think it's important for men to discuss gender issues among themselves. In fact, I'm starting to get an "overcoming patriarchy support group" going for male friends of mine. This might seem sexist at first, but I think it's important for us to have a "safe space" to be able to honestly express obstacles in identifying and overcoming patriarchal issues we face on a daily basis, and how to deal with the attacks on our masculinity (for instance) that result when we stand up for women by shooting down a sexist joke (again, for instance).

This should be happening along gender, race, sex, and many other lines, as well. The idea, much like Malcolm X's advice for white people that wanted to help the black movement, is to have something substantial to offer communities in struggle, so we can join with them in a substantive way. If white people organized among themselves, and built networks that actually had influence and resources, that would be much more beneficial than just going into a black community and saying, "hey, what can I do to help?" or more embarrassingly, "hey, I know what you should be doing."

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I wish I could offer more powerful and immediate solutions. We need a united working-class to be able to struggle effectively. I think a lot can be done just in the field of changing minds, for the time-being. Desert, feel free to PM me if you'd like/need to discuss this issue further.

Regards everyone!

[Dr Mindbender]

i've always wondered if a doctors personal politics is likely to affect their decisions.

For example, in the case of a pregnancy how likely or unlikely would a conservative doctor be to suggest abortion if there was a complication that threated the well being of the mother?

[Demogorgon]

It is just part of the ritual of administration changeovers when the new President is from the other party as the incumbent. Bush will issue an Executive order to this effect on the Nineteenth of January and Obama will revoke it on the 21st.

[Lynx]

I think this would violate the Hippocratic Oath :(

[DesertShark]

It is just part of the ritual of administration changeovers when the new President is from the other party as the incumbent. Bush will issue an Executive order to this effect on the Nineteenth of January and Obama will revoke it on the 21st.
I read somewhere it make take up to 6months to get reversed.


I think this would violate the Hippocratic Oath :(
Yea, exactly.

[Sharon den Adel]

As soon as Obama comes into office, he will do all he can to fix the mess Bush has created these last eight years. This is Bush's way of screwing things up for Obama as much as he can. It's pointless him even pushing it as he knows that Obama won't stand for it.

[arch.aid]

As soon as Obama comes into office, he will do all he can to fix the mess Bush has created these last eight years. This is Bush's way of screwing things up for Obama as much as he can. It's pointless him even pushing it as he knows that Obama won't stand for it.

Or it could just be, Bush is trying to get away with as much as he can while everyone has their attention directed on Obama? To me, it seems, as though Bush would have pulled this stunt quite a deal earlier to make it harder for Obama, than just slapping it down last minute, when it would be fresh on the table and easier to take care of. The earlier he would've written it, more and more people would've have become outraged by some other idiotic thing Bush has done and left it be.(sadly)

Timing is everything. Obama may have to wait six months(possibly?), but it should be eaisier. Also seing as Bamma-ramma supports abortion rights, he might get somthing done.