Our Ideology Comes from Humans

[Pogue]

Our ideologies come from humans...and one thing that always confused me about Marxism was how people will quote Marx and Lenin as if thats an answer to a question, i.e. someone asks a questino about why we don't do something and someone quotes Marx as an answer. Couldn't these guys, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, be wrong alot of the time?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Sure, but that is always the case in science. Even so, one makes a judgement, and if what these guys say makes sense, and is well argued, supported by facts (or can be so supported), then why not quote them?

That does not mean they are always right. After all, Marx thought Tremaux was a great theorist:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1866/letters/66_08_07.htm

Engels thought that the fourth dimension was motivated priestcraft and belief in life after death, and Lenin thought that the luminiferous ether was an objective reality.

They were not gods, just human beings who were excellent theorists and revolutionaries.

[benhur]

Our ideologies come from humans...and one thing that always confused me about Marxism was how people will quote Marx and Lenin as if thats an answer to a question, i.e. someone asks a questino about why we don't do something and someone quotes Marx as an answer. Couldn't these guys, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, be wrong alot of the time?

The trio (or trinity:D) can never be wrong, because they followed a strict, dialectical method to arrive at the truth.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BenHur:


because they followed a strict, dialectical method to arrive at the truth.

1) Marx didn't.

2) With the 'dialectical method' (if sense can be made of it, that is) it is possible to derive any conclusion you like, and its opposite. So, if anyone has ever use it to derive the truth, then guesswork would have been just as successful.

But, I'd like to see an example from Engels or Lenin where they explicitly used this method to derive a correct result (and one that could not have been obtained in any other way).

[Black Sheep]

Our ideologies come from humans...and one thing that always confused me about Marxism was how people will quote Marx and Lenin as if thats an answer to a question, i.e. someone asks a questino about why we don't do something and someone quotes Marx as an answer. Couldn't these guys, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, be wrong alot of the time?Yeah,but such quote-mining arguments only work at stupid people or stupid people who are too lazy to verify what information you throw at them,or too naive to question them.

I despise that method,like when i questioned a passage saying 'the anarchists are wrong because they do not accept the need of a vanguard party' and i got replies from people with faces like that ->:blink: telling me 'but, lenin wrote that'.

And that is why you have to research and look into ideologies and ideas generally different than the ones you uphold,as objectively as you can.

[TheCagedLion]

Our ideologies come from humans...and one thing that always confused me about Marxism was how people will quote Marx and Lenin as if thats an answer to a question, i.e. someone asks a questino about why we don't do something and someone quotes Marx as an answer. Couldn't these guys, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, be wrong alot of the time?

I agree fully. To paraphrase captain Barbossa from Pirates of the Caribbean(You probably didn't expect this, eh :cool:)

"They're more like guidelines than actual rules"

The people who do nothing but quote Marx/Trotsky/Bob, are heading down the same path that religious fundamentalists do - they stop thinking indpendently and quote scripture all day.

[Leo]

Our ideologies come from humans...Well - not all of them:


J. Posadas (1912–1981) (occasionally referred to as Juan Posadas), an Argentine Trotskyist whose personal vision is usually described as Posadism... Beginning in 1968, Posadas also became known for his theories concerning UFOs. He believed that the existence of UFOs demonstrated the existence of socialism on other planets and that only a socialist society could produce the technology needed for interplanetary travel. Moreover, he argued that as the occupants of UFOs (who were either socialists from other planets or socialists from a future earth travelling back in time) were advanced communists they should be urged to help lead the terrestrial socialist revolution.

In his pamphlet Les Soucoupes Volantes, le processus de la matiere et de l'energie, la science et le socialisme (Flying Saucers, the process of matter and energy, science and socialism) Posadas speculated that the reason UFOs do not stay very long is because “Capitalism doesn’t interest the UFO pilots, which is why they do not return. Similarly, the Soviet bureaucracy (doesn’t interest them) as they don’t have perspective.” His work ends by pleading that "“We must call upon beings from other planets when they come to intervene, to collaborate with the inhabitants of the Earth to overcome misery. We must launch a call on them to use their resources to help us.”

The obsession of the Posadist movement with UFOs has led others to quip that while Trotsky argued against the theory of socialism in one country, Posadas argued against "socialism on one planet".

[Q]

Well - not all of them:

That is just brilliant :laugh:

[zider]

Well - not all of them:


I always thought that Peter Taaffe looked a little like ET, now it's all starting to make sense :lol:

[Q]

I always thought that Peter Taaffe looked a little like ET, now it's all starting to make sense :lol:

You're on to us now :laugh: