Is Obama really a Communist?

[marxist578]

I have a question,

Is Obama really a Communist? The evidence seems unreal. From the Che Guevara flag in his office, to Joe Biden saying his agenda is "hardly socialism", to Obama saying "we need to reverse our capitalist system." He has had many ties to socialists and communists. Read this quote from his book:


"I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets." - Barack Obama (Dreams of My Father). - Could he really be a communist?

[mykittyhasaboner]

No hes not.

[ZeroNowhere]

Obama n'est pas une Marxiste, il est une marionnette. .

[FreeFocus]

The flag was not in his office, it was in the office of a group of his supporters during the Texas primary. I happen to think they're quite hypocritical and have betrayed the legacy of Che by supporting Obama.

Even if he's had ties to communists in the past, he's not a communist. What he said or thought in the past is irrelevant considering the fact that he's the leading imperialist on the planet now.

[The Idler]

Barack Obama's biggest campaign donors included Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and JP Morgan Chase. So I don't see Obama taking the financial sector into people's control/ownership anytime soon. He refused even to support single-payer healthcare.

[StalinFanboy]

LOL Obama is a capitalist.

[Dóchas]

if he was a communist he wouldnt have spent the most money ever on a presidential election

[lombas]

if he was a communist he wouldnt have spent the most money ever on a presidential election

If he was a communist he wouldn't have run for president in the first place. I think being president of the USA is one of the most self-corrupting jobs ever.

[Dóchas]

If he was a communist he wouldn't have run for president in the first place. I think being president of the USA is one of the most self-corrupting jobs ever.

well he could have been trying to get into the white house to try and make a few changes if you get my drift?

[lombas]

well he could have been trying to get into the white house to try and make a few changes if you get my drift?

Comrade, seriously, do you think that is realistic?

[Dóchas]

Comrade, seriously, do you think that is realistic?

if you look at my first post i dont i was just trying to get the possible other side out there and maybe get a discussion going

[lombas]

if you look at my first post i dont i was just trying to get the possible other side out there and maybe get a discussion going

I see, well, if he was trying to do so while being a communist or having sincere sympathies for communism or even social(-democrat)ism, I think he will experience lot of enervating things in the near future.

:lol:

[Dóchas]

I see, well, if he was trying to do so while being a communist or having sincere sympathies for communism or even social(-democrat)ism, I think he will experience lot of enervating things in the near future.

:lol:

ye good luck to anyone who tries to bring communism to the USA!!:lol:

[Comrade B]

I think when he was younger he was much more radically left. He now is a liberal democrat. I think he really does want to help people, but the way he thinks he can bring it is flawed.

[Kukulofori]

Oh how nice, the accusations about Obama have gloten someone curious.

*clicks topic*

D:

[Dóchas]

I think when he was younger he was much more radically left. He now is a liberal democrat. I think he really does want to help people, but the way he thinks he can bring it is flawed.

personally i think he is using socialism or whatever it is he is using to appear like he is coming from a different angle and appear that he can help people but he was the best option running so he got it

[8bit]

If he was a communist he wouldn't have run for president in the first place. I think being president of the USA is one of the most self-corrupting jobs ever.

This seems silly.

The idea that you must rebel against all Statism as it exists today to be a supporter of a Communist movement today is bizarre. This is along the lines of telling a Communist in a Capitalist society that he must not invest in Capitalist goods- a virtual impossibility if the citizen want's to continue living, and a complete impossibility if they want to make their economic stance well known. We live in a Capitalist state. If we want to make change within the system we must work within the system.

While I doubt our president-elect is a Communist, there are Communists and Socialists who run for the presidency, as they understand the necessary evils required to create change. Even this form admits to the Capitalist ads it places on its site to keep itself running- A necessary evil when one exists within a Capitalist system.

While I don't see Obama as Communist or a Socialist, I see him as far more progressive than most people on these forums seem to give him credit for. He's already set in place several new formats for communicating to his employers, the citizens of the United States- a sure sign of his intention to flatten our government. He also wishes to put in place many paradigms which will help move us further away from pure capitalism and help minimize inequality of wealth, a staple of Capitalism.

No, he's not the idea candidate, however, he's a huge improvement upon what we have- An authoritarian reactionary.

[Sean]

http://politicalcompass.org/images/uscandidates2008.png
Candidates for the 2008 election based on public statements, voting on issues etc. That would be a no.
Source (http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008).
Source.

[cop an Attitude]

Its impossible for a communist to rule a capitalist nation first off. Second almost all of his policies point to him being a capitalist and an imperialist. This is just slander that mainly fox news has fuled and holds no validity in real life.

[Comrade B]

Candidates for the 2008 election based on public statements, voting on issues etc. That would be a no.
Source (http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008).
Source.
The political compass website is bull shit, I have to tell you

If you are an authoritarian communist who believes in equal human rights it will still place you next to Gandhi

[Joemakerman]

ye good luck to anyone who tries to bring communism to the USA!!:lol:
I am presently taking the required US History course in my High School, and apparently a man by the name of Huey Long who was "immensely popular for his social reform programs and willingness to take forceful action, Long was accused by his opponents of dictatorial tendencies for his near-total control of the state government."-Wikipedia.org

He got extremely close during the depression, I do believe, but was "shot on September 8, 1935, at the Louisiana State Capitol in Baton Rouge."-Wikipedia.org

-Joe

[Sean]

The political compass website is bull shit, I have to tell you

If you are an authoritarian communist who believes in equal human rights it will still place you next to Gandhi
I'm sure its not infallible but its certainly not bullshit, and for the purposes of this illustration where the candidates had stated their positions as well as acted, it is far more likely to be accurate than a stalinist with a heart. Sounds like you broke it mate, contact the site and tell them your answers and your results.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I have a question,

Is Obama really a Communist? The evidence seems unreal. From the Che Guevara flag in his office, to Joe Biden saying his agenda is "hardly socialism", to Obama saying "we need to reverse our capitalist system." He has had many ties to socialists and communists. Read this quote from his book:


"I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets." - Barack Obama (Dreams of My Father). - Could he really be a communist?

Judging by this evidence, I would say that maybe at one time he was radical, but at this present time he's not Communist. He's at the most a Social Democrat. He supports Capitalism, but to a lesser extent than McCain obviously.

[BlackCapital]

If he was a communist/socialist (as he has been accused), he has by some miracle and ridiculously successful plan, infiltrated the US political system in an all but impossible manner.

His theme of "redistributing the wealth" is interesting, and frankly a little surprising to me that he even chose to say that. He does have some ties to much farther left figures, and Rage Against the Machine even referred to him as "brother Obama" (followed by a threat of serious revolt if he didn't withdraw from Iraq. I think they claimed to know him as well?).

All that said, I can say with 99% certainty he is not a communist and has no plans for such. But heres hoping:):)

[Revy]

Is the Pope really a Hindu? C'mon now. Obama is a capitalist....a neo-Bushite Clintonian, as I like to call him.

[Sean]

Rage Against the Machine even referred to him as "brother Obama" (followed by a threat of serious revolt if he didn't withdraw from Iraq. I think they claimed to know him as well?).
I like RATM, but I certainly wouldnt base my political opinions on the blowhard statements of a rock/rap group. That Zack de la Rocha called him brother makes him as communist in the same way that Henry Winkler's endorsement makes him an avid shark jumping waterskier. Its should also be noted that Zack says that he knows people that are going to burn down every senator's house.:rolleyes:

The Democrats are centre-right politically, and even if a communist got in power in some zany 1980s movie way, every single communist reform that he would attempt to impliment would be either completely shot down, or, more likely eroded and bartered for in exchange for pro-capitalist bills to appease the majority. It would take about a week of radical talk before he would be completely assimiliated, all the while convincing himself that he's really steering the country in one way or another.

You can't be radical in the two party system and the entire discussion with terms like "maverick" republicans and "communist" democrats is framed to give you the illusion of a wider choice, when really you just have two parties with slightly different agendas to push for their respective industries.

I'd recommend reading Necessary Illusions by Noam Chomsky to properly explain this point. It used to be online on zmag, but they've moved everything around so I don't know where it is right now.

[StalinFanboy]

This thread needs to die.

[not_of_this_world]

Are you kidding? This guy is in bed with every capitalist in America and the world! No hope for revolution here!

[StalinFanboy]

Are you kidding? This guy is in bed with every capitalist in America and the world! No hope for revolution here!
Thanks for the insightful post.

[Sean]

This thread needs to die.


Thanks for the insightful post.
Thanks for the insightful posts. Stop heckling the thread, please. Its a valid (if exasperating) question and getting some proper answers.

[The Douche]

I am presently taking the required US History course in my High School, and apparently a man by the name of Huey Long who was "immensely popular for his social reform programs and willingness to take forceful action, Long was accused by his opponents of dictatorial tendencies for his near-total control of the state government."-Wikipedia.org

He got extremely close during the depression, I do believe, but was "shot on September 8, 1935, at the Louisiana State Capitol in Baton Rouge."-Wikipedia.org

-Joe

Long was not a communist at all. He was openly anti-marxist. He was however a populist, and as such, wasn't afraid to implement some socialist programs, but as a populist in the south around the 20s and 30s he was also a racist.

[Black Sheep]

Chit chat is crying and yelling for this thread.

[TheCagedLion]

This thread needs to die.11:00


Are you kidding? This guy is in bed with every capitalist in America and the world! No hope for revolution here!11:01


I love the timing of these...

But I do agree with Bring It. The only people who would possibly argue for him being a communist, is anyone, to the right of Obama, on the political spectrum.

[BIG BROTHER]

yes obama is a communist, that's what I don't know if you missed it but private property got abolished yesterday and that's why walmart now its run by workers...duh

[Joemakerman]

Long was not a communist at all. He was openly anti-marxist. He was however a populist, and as such, wasn't afraid to implement some socialist programs, but as a populist in the south around the 20s and 30s he was also a racist.
Well I had more meant that he got really close to a revolution of sorts. Not necessarily a communist revolution. I was just pointing out that it is a possible feat, however extremely unlikely. I apologize for not making that more clear.

-Joe

[Reclaimed Dasein]

I agree with everyone pointing out that Obama is not a communist. Many people have hit something very close Obama's position. He's a egalitarian liberal also know in these parts as a support of welfare-state capitalism.

This should give you a good idea about what he's doing.
Rawls Distributive Justice:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Theory_of_Justice

[GPDP]

Pfft, if Obama was halfway as welfarist as you are suggesting, there would be a lot more commotion in Washington.

[Guerrilla22]

Yes, Obama is a communist. Anyone who has any che merchandise is a communist, which means that most college students are communist, which explains why so many college kids voted for him.

[Kassad]

I love the looks I get when people say "Obama's a socialist!" and I say "I wish."

To those who say that a real communist wouldn't run for office, I disagree. There's nothing wrong with running and promoting your ideology. I don't see Eugene V. Debs as any less of a socialist because he ran for office, nor do I question Gloria La Riva's socialist ideology because she ran for president.

Still, Obama is in bed with the corporate elite. By the end of his first term, we will see that the vast majority of his promises were hollow. If in four years we have made significant withdrawals from Iraq and made serious moves towards national healthcare, then I will be very surprised. He's just another reformer putting another layer of bandages on the capitalist wound.

[LOLseph Stalin]

yes obama is a communist, that's what I don't know if you missed it but private property got abolished yesterday and that's why walmart now its run by workers...duh

Haha. I wish... -_- Yay for Wal-Marx!

[couch13]

If my dreams come true Obama is actually a socialist and this whole him spending more than Mccain being a kind of fuck you to the corporations.

But, then again in my dreams meat in grown in vitro and tri tip steaks fly to me cooked rare and seasoned perfectly. Here's to dreaming!

[ZeroNowhere]

If my dreams come true Obama is actually a socialist and this whole him spending more than Mccain being a kind of fuck you to the corporations.

But, then again in my dreams meat in grown in vitro and tri tip steaks fly to me cooked rare and seasoned perfectly. Here's to dreaming!
If Obama is actually a socialist, then... What?

[Black Sheep]

If Obama is actually a socialist, then... What?
Then we prepare for the armageddon, the 2nd coming of the Jesus of the Christs.

[Hit The North]

If Obama is a communist then I'm a real builder.

Besides, he stole my catch-phrase - and no self-respecting communist would do that, surely?

[Dr Mindbender]

well he could have been trying to get into the white house to try and make a few changes if you get my drift?

I dont think the US president has any substantial or lasting power anyway, It's all down to the oil corps who bankroll the ruling party of the day.

[Dóchas]

I dont think the US president has any substantial or lasting power anyway, It's all down to the oil corps who bankroll the ruling party of the day.

true but its got to stand for something or there wouldnt be any point in running in the first place

[marxist578]

It stands for a lifetime of power and wealth.

[Dóchas]

ye god forbid they might want to change the country or something!!

[LOLseph Stalin]

ye god forbid they might want to change the country or something!!

He does promise change, but it'll likely still be "change" to benefit the bourgeoisie.

[Drace]

Besides, he stole my catch-phrase - and no self-respecting communist would do that, surely?

What would that be?

[ZeroNowhere]

What would that be?
People these days...
Here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_We_Fix_It)

[Hit The North]

In fact:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQCjelGK-JU&feature=PlayList&p=49B9412331AF05AA&index=0&playnext=1

[Guerrilla22]

he's a Marxist, Arab, Muslim, who hangs out with terrorist. On top of that, he wants to take away your guns. :(

[Comrade_Red]

Just as you named this evidence, there is much more evidence to think he is of the other ideology in question-a capitalist. The man is a corrupt capitalist with no intention to bring about any real change, just keep the lid on a pot of boiling water from bursting off.

[Black Sheep]

I can't believe this thread has endured 3-page posts without being moved to Chit Chat.

[Dóchas]

He does promise change, but it'll likely still be "change" to benefit the bourgeoisie.


with out a doubt



I can't believe this thread has endured 3-page posts without being moved to Chit Chat.


and its still going!! :thumbup1:

[Forward Union]

http://politicalcompass.org/images/uscandidates2008.png
Candidates for the 2008 election based on public statements, voting on issues etc. That would be a no.
Source (http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008).
Source.

That's good.

Im surprised there is such a gap though.

[chegitz guevara]

http://politicalcompass.org/images/uscandidates2008.png
Candidates for the 2008 election based on public statements, voting on issues etc. That would be a no.
Source (http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008).
Source.

According to this, Brian Moore should have received all the libertarian votes.

[GPDP]

I'm pretty sure libertarians put their love of capitalism before so-called social libertarianism.

[The Intransigent Faction]

he's a Marxist, Arab, Muslim, who hangs out with terrorist. On top of that, he wants to take away your guns. :(

Erm...what?!
Firstly, so what if he's "an Arab"?
Secondly, that kind of comment should be expected from an isolated redneck McCain supporter, not a revolutionary Marxist.
He does not "hang out with terrorists" either.
I could go into a whole rant about the history of the United States and Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/Israel, but I won't bother. I'll just tell you that while I don't agree with "Islamofascism" (term coined by ex-Trotskyist Christopher Hitchens), I certainly don't buy the line that everyone going after the United States/Canada/Britain/etc. "hates our freedoms". The United States' government's long history of messing with Middle eastern affairs has triggered blowback, and much of what they (the U.S. government) have done would just as easily qualify as terrorism.

[The Intransigent Faction]

As for this thread's actual topic:

Obama is not a Marxist. He merely uses rhetoric about helping "small businesses" as opposed to giant corporations.

[FreeFocus]

Erm...what?!
Firstly, so what if he's "an Arab"?
Secondly, that kind of comment should be expected from an isolated redneck McCain supporter, not a revolutionary Marxist.
He does not "hang out with terrorists" either.
I could go into a whole rant about the history of the United States and Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/Israel, but I won't bother. I'll just tell you that while I don't agree with "Islamofascism" (term coined by ex-Trotskyist Christopher Hitchens), I certainly don't buy the line that everyone going after the United States/Canada/Britain/etc. "hates our freedoms". The United States' government's long history of messing with Middle eastern affairs has triggered blowback, and much of what they (the U.S. government) have done would just as easily qualify as terrorism.

Good grief man, he was being sarcastic. :blink:

[The Intransigent Faction]

Good grief man, he was being sarcastic. :blink:

:blushing: I need to tune up my internet sarcasm detector. I guess I forgot I was typing this on RevLeft, because everywhere else people seem to seriously mean comments like that.

[Kassad]

To all those citing and referencing The Political Compass and to those who mentioned the fact that the candidates were further apart than they should be:


When examining the chart it's important to note that although most of the candidates seem quite different, in substance they occupy a relatively restricted area within the universal political spectrum. Democracies with a system of proportional representation give expression to a wider range of political views. While Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader are depicted on the extreme left in an American context, they would simply be mainstream social democrats within the wider political landscape of Europe. Similarly, Obama is popularly perceived as a leftist in the United States while elsewhere in the west his record is that of a moderate conservative.

http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

A notable flaw in the Compass is the fact that it has to warp the chart to reference different areas of the political spectrum, separated by the common political affiliations in said nation. Almost all political parties in the United States, especially mainstream parties and politicians, would fall into the Authoritatian Right quadrant.

[Pawn Power]

The Great Debate on Obama, including audio podcast (http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=933&Itemid=1).

[Pawn Power]

Washington Post Poll: Optimism for Obama (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/12/21/ST2008122100258.html)

[Brother No. 1]

no hes just a Capitalist using some socailism to save american Capitalism which will fail

[ZeroNowhere]

no hes just a Capitalist using some socailism to save american Capitalism which will fail
...What?

[Brother No. 1]

if he was a communist why would America elect him they hate communism and people who support it I get yelled at everyday at shool at a anti communist and maybe your right hes communist but tell me your answer

[ZeroNowhere]

if he was a communist why would America elect him they hate communism
Should I do it or should I not... :rolleyes:
Oh, what the hell, I'll compromise. Who is 'they'?


and people who support it I get yelled at everyday at shool at a anti communist and maybe your right hes communist but tell me your answer
I assume you were responding to me, and I never said that he was a socialist. I was disputing this:

no hes just a Capitalist using some socailism to save american Capitalism which will fail
Emphasis mine.

[Dóchas]

Should I do it or should I not... :rolleyes:
Oh, what the hell, I'll compromise. Who is 'they'?

who do you think "they" are?

[ZeroNowhere]

who do you think "they" are?
I am completely unsure. Last time I saw somebody referred to as 'America', it was the bourgeoisie, which I suppose could fit there. On the other hand, it would still be a generalization.

[Brother No. 1]

they= United states of America and I was wondering why you said what but you also belive he is just a Cpitlaist using socailism to try and keep american Capitalism alive

[The Intransigent Faction]

they= United states of America and I was wondering why you said what but you also belive he is just a Cpitlaist using socailism to try and keep american Capitalism alive

I understand what you're getting at, but you made one significant mistake:

Obama will almost certainly not not, nor does he plan to, use "Socialism" to save American Capitalism. What Obama embraces, at best, is reformism. At the best of times, he's struck me as supportive of the petty bourgeois against the bourgeoisie.

[Brother No. 1]

oh he does now well thats new

[The Intransigent Faction]

oh he does now well thats new

...What is?

[EseSocialistaSurge]

Alright. Well I just wanna say that I think some people should stop ripping on Obama. At least hes doing some things to make things easier on the poor in a Capitalist society. Although he has made many promises and statements that might not come true, we cant neccesarily fully descredit him. He may not benefit the struggle but in the end what is important is that he truly believes in helping people,(Or so it seems) and in the end isnt that what the revolution is truly about? Helping people?

[duffers]

and in the end isnt that what the revolution is truly about? Helping people?

No it's not. We don't want to "help" people. We want to emancipate them. Reformism is a lie that perpetuates the falseness that with change, you can make great strides, until you hit that inevitable glass ceiling, and there is no further you can rise, eg. a 6 hour work day as advocated by socialists in the past isn't likely to come to fruition now.

[EseSocialistaSurge]

Well I think we all have our different interpertations of what the revolution is about. The reason I have decided to side with leftist ideology is for a better society in which I can help people better themselves. Im not sure what it means to you. At least Obama is doing something. Dosent excuse him for being a Capitalist. But reform is better then nothing for now... Because in some ways it will better some peoples lives. But I do agree reform is just an illusion. N if it gives people false hope then let it. It will just help us in the future when theyre dreams are crushed. Well pick up the scraps and change society for the better :D

[Kassad]

Alright. Well I just wanna say that I think some people should stop ripping on Obama. At least hes doing some things to make things easier on the poor in a Capitalist society. Although he has made many promises and statements that might not come true, we cant neccesarily fully descredit him. He may not benefit the struggle but in the end what is important is that he truly believes in helping people,(Or so it seems) and in the end isnt that what the revolution is truly about? Helping people?

Revolutionaries and socialists have nothing in common with Barack Obama. He is a bourgeoisie puppet and is serving their interests. That is why he has already contradicted some of his earlier campaign promises. To get elected to high offices in the United States government, you must succumb to corporate interests. It is inevitable. Obama is just another reformist who wants to bail out the capitalist system through bailouts that do not serve the interest of the working class.

Helping people is just a mere bandage on a broken system. Liberating them is what is truly necessary.

[Dean]

Alright. Well I just wanna say that I think some people should stop ripping on Obama. At least hes doing some things to make things easier on the poor in a Capitalist society. Although he has made many promises and statements that might not come true, we cant neccesarily fully descredit him. He may not benefit the struggle but in the end what is important is that he truly believes in helping people,(Or so it seems) and in the end isnt that what the revolution is truly about? Helping people?

Unlike others, I do think that leftism is about helping people - it is an affirmation of redmption, forgiveness and openness in the social system.

However, Obama stands for none of this. He stands for a brutal, systematic oppression and occupation of Palestine and Ossetia. His stance on Palestine is in fact more reactionary than every past U.S. President. He believes in a comprehensive system of corporate welfare. Obama is, from the communist perspective, more debilitating to the movement because he literally offers no changes, yet appeals to the desire for change. A defense of Obama is simply an offense against workers, end of discussion.

[Invincible Summer]

Even if Obama was a Communist, he's would lead a centralized, state-capitalist state (a la Stalinist USSR, with the cult of personality too!) so it's not like it'd be a great thing anyway