'Che' film gets thumbs up in Cuba

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- "Che" the movie met Che the myth in Cuba this weekend, and the lengthy biopic of the Argentinean revolutionary won acclaim from among those who know his story best.

Actor Benicio Del Toro stars in "Che," which details Che Guevara's role in the 1950s Cuban revolution.

The movie was screened Saturday in the Yara movie theater in central Havana as part of the 30th International Festival of the New Latin American Cinema. "Che" also played Sunday at Havana's Karl Marx Theater.

"Che" stars Oscar winner Benicio Del Toro in the title role, for which he won a best actor award at this year's Cannes Film Festival.

But it's one thing to make a movie about Ernesto "Che" Guevara (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/che_guevara) and the Cuban revolution and show it in France, quite another to screen it in Cuba. Speaking to CNN outside the Karl Marx Theater, the bilingual Puerto Rican actor admitted some anxiety.

"This is Cuban history, so there's an audience in there that probably, that could be the biggest critics and the most knowledgeable critics of the historical accuracy of the film," Del Toro (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/benicio_del_toro) said. It appears he needn't have worried.

Audiences gave the movie hearty ovations. And Granma, the official mouthpiece of the Cuban (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/cuba) government, gave Del Toro a glowing review.

"Del Toro personifies Che in a spectacular manner, not only his physical appearance but also his masterly interpretation," the state newspaper said.

After the showing, Del Toro characterized the public reaction as "sensational, a shot of adrenaline," Granma said. "The dream was to make this movie and to bring it here, where it all began."

The movie has two parts: "El argentino," which portrays Guevara's role in the 1950s Cuban revolution, and "Guerrilla," which shows Guevara's efforts in Africa and Bolivia, where he was killed in 1967. It was directed by Steven Soderbergh, who also directed Del Toro in the 2000 film "Traffic," for which Del Toro won an Oscar.

At 4 hours and 17 minutes, "Che" can test viewers' stamina. But that wasn't a problem in Havana.

Damn, how could they possibly leave anything out with that much time? :lol:

Seriously, though, I've been waiting for this movie to come out for years, and the fact that it got such good reviews in Cuba (and Cannes) only fuels that desire more. It would have sucked if, after all this time, it had been an un-historical fizz.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/09/cuba.che.movie/index.html

edit: It'll come out on limited release on friday, widespread January 24th.

[RebelDog]

Wasn't he a terrorist?

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Wasn't he a terrorist?

I would say 'largely unsuccessful guerrilla,' but that's just me.

But a fascinating individual nonetheless.

[Magdalen]

Special previews of Che Parts One & Two have been organised on New Year's Day, the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution, in various parts of Britain.

See this site for details.

http://www.cuba50.org/?page=Whats_On_Page&link=85

[Dóchas]

i doubt they would show it in ireland which is a shame :(

[ChocolateToothpaste]

I can't wait to see this movie.
I assume it's in Spanish, so will it have subtitles for the US release?

[PigmerikanMao]

Wasn't he a terrorist?
Yeah, and Bush is the great democratic liberator of the Middle East, and lets not forget that Obama is a secret nazi timetraveling muslim. :)

[BIG BROTHER]

fuck, i wanna see it so bad, so is there any chance of DVDs of the movie coming out?

[RebelDog]

I would say 'largely unsuccessful guerrilla,' but that's just me.

But a fascinating individual nonetheless.

I was actually being sarcastic. I have great respect for Che Guevara. I would have thought liberals like yourself would label people like him 'terrorists' for obvious reasons.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I was actually being sarcastic. I have great respect for Che Guevara. I would have thought liberals like yourself would label people like him 'terrorists' for obvious reasons.

You kidding? Liberals fucking love Che.

I would consider myself more left than liberal, btw.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

fuck, i wanna see it so bad, so is there any chance of DVDs of the movie coming out?

Comes ou in theaters Jan 24, and I imagine you could get a bootleg almost instantaneously with that.

There will definitely be DVDs, then Special Edition DVDs, then Revolution Edition DVDs, then Special Revolution Edition DVDs, then Special Revolution Edition for Special People DVDs.

Like Che's image itself, it'll be milked for every dollar possible.

[PigmerikanMao]

liberals like yourself...
Says the libertarian communist. :rolleyes:

[GPDP]

Says the libertarian communist. :rolleyes:

The hell is that supposed to mean?

[PigmerikanMao]

He kind of dismissed our attitudes toward Che and us almost in an insulting fashion when he called us liberals. I don't know if you're a liberal, but I am not. I was simply noting the subtle irony that a person who gives themselves the user tag of "Libertarian Communist" seems to call us liberals in a seemingly becoming tone. Perhaps I misread, whatever. :)

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Yeah, while we're at it, can we define what the fuck a "liberal" is? It seems to mean a million different things to a million different people.

I consider it to mean support for progressive issues like gay marriage, abortion, affirmative-action, etc etc. Kinda like, "Social Democrat-lite."

Definitely not synonmeous with neoliberalism.

[Sendo]

we need intermisions again. Seven Samurai is a long one, too, but a half hour break can make all the difference.


But don't expect that. In the West it will get chopped up since theaters are pressed so hard for cash by Hollywood (and by the state as the new NY gov adds a zillion sin and fun taxes) and need to maximize screenings.

PS Cult of Abe...what are you talking about as being liberal is mostly social libertarianism...let people get married/who cares etc. Good luck finding some liberal elites at a major US university who support Che.

[JimmyJazz]

Yeah, while we're at it, can we define what the fuck a "liberal" is? It seems to mean a million different things to a million different people.

I consider it to mean support for progressive issues like gay marriage, abortion, affirmative-action, etc etc. Kinda like, "Social Democrat-lite."

Definitely not synonmeous with neoliberalism.

In American political parlance I just think of Democrats and Greens as liberals.

Everywhere else, Liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism). Libertarians are the truest liberals in America when you go by this more general definition of the word. Some libertarians call themselves "classic liberals".

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

we need intermisions again. Seven Samurai is a long one, too, but a half hour break can make all the difference.

Classic.


But don't expect that. In the West it will get chopped up since theaters are pressed so hard for cash by Hollywood (and by the state as the new NY gov adds a zillion sin and fun taxes) and need to maximize screenings.Do they really do that?

I remember sitting thru a 4-hour civil-war movie once, complete with an intermission. It sucked.



PS Cult of Abe...what are you talking about as being liberal is mostly social libertarianism...let people get married/who cares etc. Good luck finding some liberal elites at a major US university who support Che.I consider "liberal" and "liberal elite" to different things. Lots of college age liberals wear Che apparrel, and many of them regard him as a "good" guy.

Unless one has horses stabled at places like Chestershirevilletown and are driven around by a dude named Chauncy and are waited on by a guy named Jeeves they are not liberal elite. And among the liberal elite I agree that you will find sparse the Che supporter indeed.



In American political parlance I just think of Democrats and Greens as liberals.

Everywhere else, Liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism). Libertarians are the truest liberals in America when you go by this more general definition of the word. Some libertarians call themselves "classic liberals".Indeed That is the problem. We need to get with the rest of the world and adopt the metric system while we're at it.

[Guerrilla22]

It looks excellent and Soderberg is a great director. I hope it will come to most theatres, but it's an IFC release so it's likely that the film will have a limited distribution.

[BIG BROTHER]

Comes ou in theaters Jan 24, and I imagine you could get a bootleg almost instantaneously with that.

There will definitely be DVDs, then Special Edition DVDs, then Revolution Edition DVDs, then Special Revolution Edition DVDs, then Special Revolution Edition for Special People DVDs.

Like Che's image itself, it'll be milked for every dollar possible.

Sad, but true, and whats worse I'll probably be the one waiting to buy the Guerrilla revolution edition signed by Fidel Castro:lol::blushing:

[Octobox]

Sad, but true, and whats worse I'll probably be the one waiting to buy the Guerrilla revolution edition signed by Fidel Castro:confused::crying:

Benicio is part Puerto Rican and there is no love loss between Cubans and PR's -- why didn't they find a Cuban actor to play this role?

I'm Cuban-American -- My family escaped during Castro/Che take over -- they died on the brutal bloody "Wall" and they fled Castro's Communism in the late 60's. Some of my family still lives there.

Of course it got rave reviews in the Communist controlled media. But make no mistake that this movie will come as a severe slap in the face to all freedom loving Cubans.

Only the communist educated Cubans will smile on camera, but you do not here our conversations in private and will not. You all idolize Che because you did not live under him. He was disgustingly brutal to the people of Cuba after the revolution -- mass torture, beheadings, rapes, and executions followed.

He also died a coward and did not go out in a hail of glory or bullets.

As a cuban it makes me sick to think about all of you celebrating him. Why don't you celebrate Gen. Robert E. Lee as a gentlemen or the Klan who drug James Byrd behind their truck -- are these revolutionary hereos as well?

You people have no clue because you have not been to communist cuba nor have you family there no have you lived there.

Communists and Democrats shape history by propaganda and severe media control.

The only free-country is one that understands: 1) Open-Source (non-copywright), 2) Virtually Tax-Free, 3) Anarchy in the Markets, and 4) a Severly limited Gov't with no regulatory powers over the people or in the markets -- they get to work with a small sales tax for the purpose of border and ocean patrol. The more centralized the power the more freedoms we lose. Are you all celebrating the Patriot Act (Obama voted for every version he could -- It was Biden who was the architect of the first and more severe Patriot Act under Clinton).

None of us have ever known a free-society (but those of us in our late 30's or over can remember a "freer" time), we know what Voluntary should mean, we know what "truly" free-markets (market anarchy) should look like -- it means you have the choice to not participate and channel nearly 100% of all your labor dollars - passive income - residual income - inheritance in wherever way you like -- it means you are allowed to fail and that you, your family, and your immediate neighbors pay 100% of your criminal fees (makes family and community and individual behavior more responsible).

Why do we subsidize and off-shore our laziness?

This movie is Che-tastic --- Three Cheers for our Communist Educational System and our Corporatists Gov't.

I'm glad my mother did not live to see this movie errored.

Sorry I had to let that out -- just a rant.

Octobox "Cuba Libre"

[Coggeh]

i doubt they would show it in ireland which is a shame :(
Thats where the internet comes in my potato eating friend :)

I'd expect it on www.watch-movies.net when it comes out :)

[Coggeh]

Benicio is part Puerto Rican and there is no love loss between Cubans and PR's -- why didn't they find a Cuban actor to play this role?

I'm Cuban-American -- My family escaped during Castro/Che take over -- they died on the brutal bloody "Wall" and they fled Castro's Communism in the late 60's. Some of my family still lives there.

Of course it got rave reviews in the Communist controlled media. But make no mistake that this movie will come as a severe slap in the face to all freedom loving Cubans.

Only the communist educated Cubans will smile on camera, but you do not here our conversations in private and will not. You all idolize Che because you did not live under him. He was disgustingly brutal to the people of Cuba after the revolution -- mass torture, beheadings, rapes, and executions followed.

He also died a coward and did not go out in a hail of glory or bullets.

As a cuban it makes me sick to think about all of you celebrating him. Why don't you celebrate Gen. Robert E. Lee as a gentlemen or the Klan who drug James Byrd behind their truck -- are these revolutionary hereos as well?

How did he die a coward ?

So the cuban revolution as just brutal slaughter aye ? and it achieved nothing ?

I don't like the lack of democracy in Cuba but look at the gains made compared to its neighbours , it surpasses most of Latin America in terms of quality of life.

And as for the "anarchy in the markets" does the current crisis mean anything to you ? the governments have you bail the markets out its so messed up .

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

If nothing else, the Revolution may have created a situation in which Cuba can benefit greatly once the Revolution ends. All those doctors, scientists, literate people who could be making money...plus a history which is going to ensure a lot of tourist money in the long run.

I just think he was as interesting dude. I wouldn't mind a movie about Robespierre or Stalin. Of course, as long as it was done well and wasn't a piece of propaganda one way or the other.

[Plagueround]

Only the communist educated Cubans will smile on camera, but you do not here our conversations in private and will not.

While I will never belittle people's families...why is it we will not hear these things? You've told me before it is very hard to talk about...and obviously those still in Cuba aren't able to...but wouldn't attempting to expose the truth about Cuba be more beneficial? As I've told you, I'm not a blind supporter of Cuba, but I don't know much about the place that isn't filtered through biased perspectives...


As a cuban it makes me sick to think about all of you celebrating him. Why don't you celebrate Gen. Robert E. Lee as a gentlemen or the Klan who drug James Byrd behind their truck -- are these revolutionary hereos as well?


As a Native American, this is pretty much how I feel when people speak fondly and happily about well, pretty much any U.S. president ever. :(

[Octobox]

Coggy: I agree with you -- I don't like American Corporatism either.

Don't confuse my disgust over the non-Cuban Che-Lovers Celebration of the Argentinan Tyrant with a love for Democracy or Communism.

Anarchy means "An" (not or no) and "Arche" (Sovereignty or Rule) -- thus: "No-Rule" or "Self-Rule." It does not mean "chaos."

The problem with the markets is that Gov't intervenes on the behalf of Unions and Corporatists (the two largest Lobby Protectionistic Seeking Groups).

Groupism is never Voluntarism -- It's the "haves" vs the "have mores"

An anarchy always lends the greatest power the futher you move away from central gov't -- towards the individual. It's the individual that's raped, murdered, kidnapped -- it's the individual who is taxed -- thus the most important person in any group is the invidual. Anarchy is Individualism as an Anarchist never abdicates his authority to a group leader ;)

Octobox

[Octobox]

I'm Black-Taino and Irish -- We share the same indigenous story. But I don't blame white people because to sack any community (or groupist society) you must have sell-outs. The Taino are the Indian of Cuba.

I agree with Dr. Martin Luther King (in part) when he said to judge the content of a man's character and not the color of his skin.

There is no format for Cubans to speak out in Cuba -- Not that it doesn't happen in the homes. Cuba un-like Russia or other Communist-Esque governments is an isolated island with a heavy embargo.

People tell their story in the 400 or so people who every year risk a 40% chance of death by crossing the volatile Gulf.

Cubans survive by their well-known sense of humor -- We laugh it off; we suffer in dignity (speaking for my family there).

[Octobox]

How did he die a coward ?

So the cuban revolution as just brutal slaughter aye ? and it achieved nothing ?

I don't like the lack of democracy in Cuba but look at the gains made compared to its neighbours , it surpasses most of Latin America in terms of quality of life.

And as for the "anarchy in the markets" does the current crisis mean anything to you ? the governments have you bail the markets out its so messed up .

Coggy: Cuba is better off then the other islands because it is the biggest and has the best resources -- however, it really sucks to live there. Yet even though it is stifling Cubans are an emotional and joyous people -- we survive by our laughter (speaking for my family there).

Haiti is worse because it enjoys the hatred of France, still to this day.

If the Island Peoples were free then you would see the prosperity and work-ethic and joyous ingenuity come alive.

Fidel would have been loved if he would have been an Anarchist and allowed for complete anarchy in the markets -- but he butchered so many people with the help of Che and in many cases by Che's own hands that he had to instill a Paranoid Militant Regime or surely he would have been overthrown.

When Communism is In-Voluntary it quickly turns into a Military Dictatorship.

My argument is individuals cannot be controlled at the whim of any one group (gangsters) -- Anarchy is Individualism.

How did he die a coward? He begged for his life (but was given a Che death -- complete with cutting off of the hands).

It's never a good idea to adopt heroes from other countries -- other than your own; simply because you idealize the notion of a romantic revolution. When you behead people and cut off their limbs as sport it kind of changes you.

Che would have been great friends with Uday Hussein.

Read about Dr. Bisect of Cuba -- if you want to see how black-cubans are treated as political prisoners or how Cubans are speaking out against Castro.

If you want the truth you are going to have to dig.

Octobox

[Dóchas]

Thats where the internet comes in my potato eating friend :)

I'd expect it on www.watch-movies.net (http://www.watch-movies.net) when it comes out :)

Go raibh míle maith agat atá tú!!!!! :thumbup1: Is aoibhinn che guevara go mór liom

[Chapter 24]

Haiti is worse because it enjoys the hatred of France, still to this day.

I think that's an oversimplification of why Haiti is in the state it's in.


Fidel would have been loved if he would have been an Anarchist and allowed for complete anarchy in the markets

But that's basically what Cuba was pre-1959: an island ruled by the mob and a dictator who was in bed with U.S. imperialism.


Read about Dr. Bisect of Cuba -- if you want to see how black-cubans are treated as political prisoners or how Cubans are speaking out against Castro. If you want the truth you are going to have to dig.

But clearly if you're going to say that black Cubans are treated as political prisoners then there must be some validated source that you can provide for this.
It's difficult to "dig for the truth" when I don't even know where to put my shovel.

[Octobox]

I think that's an oversimplification of why Haiti is in the state it's in. If the Island Peoples were free then you would see the prosperity and work-ethic and joyous ingenuity come alive. But that's basically what Cuba was pre-1959: an island ruled by the mob and a dictator who was in bed with U.S. imperialism. But clearly if you're going to say that black Cubans are treated as political prisoners then there must be some validated source that you can provide for this. It's difficult to "dig for the truth" when I don't even know where to put my shovel.

No Pre-Castro was not as bad as the take over and as bad as post revolution -- you cannot compare the two. Of course in the first few years of Castro it was better for those who received the wealth transferrence, as Castro went immediately into income redistribution and you must give "advantages" to the most murderous and cut-throat of those who sided with you -- you must. And you must continue too. Nearly 90% of those who became wealthy after Castro took over have blood on their hands. Cubanidad -- No! Batista was like a Lil Fidel -- by comparison, but a bastard none-the-less.

It's easy to dig -- try these searches.

Google: "Homberto Fontova Che" -- Google: "Che Murder El Cabana" -- Google: "Black Cuban Plight" -- Google: "Dr. Biscect" -- Google: "Afro-Cubans Political Prisoners"

Read this article -- which is pretty accurate according to my family (we are anti-batista and anti-fidel -- but batista was less harsh on afro-cubans -- he was mulatto himself). Remember Batista took control of Cuba with the help of FDR!!!

"Batista Mafioso" and "Castro the Pimp"
http://cubanology.com/Articles/Batista_the_Mafioso_and_Castro_the_Pimp.htm

If you want to be cool and celebrate a great Afro-Cuban Rebel then wear Antonio Maceo Grajales t-shirts - known as "El Leon Mayor" (The Great Lion) or the "El Titan de Bronce" (Bronze Titan).

For the sake of Cubans everywhere do not wear the Butcher of el Cabana or Che t-shirts. It's like wearing Stalin or Hitler t-shirts.

Octobox -- Pulpo de Boxeo -- Ocho Punos

[Octobox]

I think that's an oversimplification of why Haiti is in the state it's in.


Are you French? No you are right the French work with Americans -- They funnell money to rebel leaders and continually work to distabalize Haiti. Think of what Haiti represents -- the only country in the world where slaves not only beat back and killed their Masters but they took over the country in totality. They did this to the French.

Haiti also represents Slavery in the Americas -- As Haiti was the primary hub for Slave Trading -- even though history (as written by europeans will disagree) -- it was Haiti none-the-less.

The French still work to upset the Congo and Vietnam -- whereever they were ousted -- As a people the French are snot-nosed cowards: run over by Hitler, run over by almost every single one of their colonies -- they ruined all their colonies. The best thing about the French was their contributions to art and the study of liberty (in its anarchist and "truly" free-market sense.

They have always been terrible leaders as Socialists.

Socialism-Communism-Democracy always must have perpetual "revolution" or "income redistribution" -- They must Colonize (by agriculture, banking, or military). It's the very nature of the In-Voluntary society.

You could have Social-Anarchy or Anarcho-Communism -- but only if its Voluntary.

Otherwise its a percentage of slavery (depending on travel restrictions and how much you are taxed). The essence of slavery is zero % control over the fruit of ones labor, investments, inheritance, passive income, or residual income.

Anarchism of whatever flavor is an Invidualist notion as only liberty can be -- any type of mutualism will always lead to force, except in a highly enlightened and imaginary society. This does not mean we can't ban together to solve problems -- there's nothing wrong with regulatory-powerless groups solving problems as long as they do not have authority over the member body or any individual.

If all individuals are protected the entire society is protected -- this always comes down to having anarchy in the markets.

Octobox

[Patchd]

Yeah, and Bush is the great democratic liberator of the Middle East, and lets not forget that Obama is a secret nazi timetraveling muslim. :)
He didn't say that, Bush is just as much a dick as Che or Castro were.

[Pogue]

Benicio is part Puerto Rican and there is no love loss between Cubans and PR's -- why didn't they find a Cuban actor to play this role?

I'm Cuban-American -- My family escaped during Castro/Che take over -- they died on the brutal bloody "Wall" and they fled Castro's Communism in the late 60's. Some of my family still lives there.

Of course it got rave reviews in the Communist controlled media. But make no mistake that this movie will come as a severe slap in the face to all freedom loving Cubans.

Only the communist educated Cubans will smile on camera, but you do not here our conversations in private and will not. You all idolize Che because you did not live under him. He was disgustingly brutal to the people of Cuba after the revolution -- mass torture, beheadings, rapes, and executions followed.

He also died a coward and did not go out in a hail of glory or bullets.

As a cuban it makes me sick to think about all of you celebrating him. Why don't you celebrate Gen. Robert E. Lee as a gentlemen or the Klan who drug James Byrd behind their truck -- are these revolutionary hereos as well?

You people have no clue because you have not been to communist cuba nor have you family there no have you lived there.

Communists and Democrats shape history by propaganda and severe media control.

The only free-country is one that understands: 1) Open-Source (non-copywright), 2) Virtually Tax-Free, 3) Anarchy in the Markets, and 4) a Severly limited Gov't with no regulatory powers over the people or in the markets -- they get to work with a small sales tax for the purpose of border and ocean patrol. The more centralized the power the more freedoms we lose. Are you all celebrating the Patriot Act (Obama voted for every version he could -- It was Biden who was the architect of the first and more severe Patriot Act under Clinton).

None of us have ever known a free-society (but those of us in our late 30's or over can remember a "freer" time), we know what Voluntary should mean, we know what "truly" free-markets (market anarchy) should look like -- it means you have the choice to not participate and channel nearly 100% of all your labor dollars - passive income - residual income - inheritance in wherever way you like -- it means you are allowed to fail and that you, your family, and your immediate neighbors pay 100% of your criminal fees (makes family and community and individual behavior more responsible).

Why do we subsidize and off-shore our laziness?

This movie is Che-tastic --- Three Cheers for our Communist Educational System and our Corporatists Gov't.

I'm glad my mother did not live to see this movie errored.

Sorry I had to let that out -- just a rant.

Octobox "Cuba Libre"

Please provide th eevidence of Che killing innocents, sacitoning rapes, etc. You wont be able to because there is none. Stop whinging about a future you view with compeltely rose tinted spectacles. Your anarcho-capitalism bullshit is baseless, a ridiculous ideology dreamed up by spolit rich kids who dream of getting everything they want because there tyrannical parents have funded their lives so far. You're a joke, as is your ideology and your claims. Go learn the history of you're own nation.

There was a reason why Fidel kicked you're family out of Cuba - its because your family were arseholes.

[JimmyJazz]

I'm not a blind supporter of Cuba, but I don't know much about the place that isn't filtered through biased perspectives...

Try googling "trade unions Cuba" and similar phrases. A ton has been written on Cuba from a labor perspective. I generally consider a labor perspective the closest thing you can get to unbiased. Conscious workers tend not to affiliate with any government as much as with their class and class organizations.

As you might expect, Cuba is not a perfect workers' paradise, but the general consensus is it's much better than capitalist countries (not necessarily standard of living of course--how could it be without trade?--but labor practices).

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

There was a reason why Fidel kicked you're family out of Cuba - its because your family were arseholes.

Wow that's an arsehollish thing to say.

And I love how you say "Fidel" kicked them out. At least you're not one of those socialists who thinks that there's anything democratic about it, as opposed to the decision of one man.

Not that I know anything about Cuba, really. I'm certainly not one of those right-wingers who thinks we should (or should have) invade or keep the embargo going.

[Octobox]

Please provide th eevidence of Che killing innocents, sacitoning rapes, etc. You wont be able to because there is none. Stop whinging about a future you view with compeltely rose tinted spectacles. Your anarcho-capitalism bullshit is baseless, a ridiculous ideology dreamed up by spolit rich kids who dream of getting everything they want because there tyrannical parents have funded their lives so far. You're a joke, as is your ideology and your claims. Go learn the history of you're own nation. There was a reason why Fidel kicked you're family out of Cuba - its because your family were arseholes.


HLVS: Thanks

#1 -- My family was not kicked out (thanks for the Batista stereotype) and No we are not from Miami.

#2 -- My family are Cubans (Black and Taino "Carib Indian") they live mostly in Santiago (today). Most of my family is still back there.

#3 -- I know the Cuban history from within the living rooms of real Cubans living in Cuba and from my family who fled in the late 60's (some by raft and some up through south america).

#4 -- We were not wealthy Cubans by any means.

#5 -- Fidel controls the flow of information -- no one in Cuba will speak on these issues publically and especially to someone life you AND you've done no investigatory research. In your hateful mind you except what others tell you. You want the truth, you want to see the 53% poverty rate go to Santiago and see it for yourself. You want the non-Michael Moore guided hospital tours -- Go to Cuba yourself and step off the wine-road resorts (set up by Spain's Capitalists -- hahaha).

#6 -- There is a near epidemic of drug abuse (owing to poverty and Fidel allowing the drugs in from Columbia; which is processed then routed to Florida -- Thanks Fidel) and all Sex Tourism (both Child and Adult). Fidel earned over $1B in Tourism last year - atta boy.

#7 -- There is a huge difference between American Corporatism -- which I adamently oppose and have done so in the over 30 posts I've submitted here on Rev Left -- A "corporatist free-market" is auto-moronic. I support a market-anarchy in the sense that "anarchy" means: "an" - not or no and "arche" - rule or sovereignty. This means that my labor dollars belong to me and I distribute them as I please -- That's Anarchism and the definition of Choice or Voluntarism.

You sound angry and imbecilic and I sound well thought out.

I'm a Cuban with Cuban family in Cuba -- Let us tell you who are heroes are.

I will give Fidel credit -- To keep the Sex Tourism (of Adults and Children) alive he has done an excellent job and spreading anti-aids awareness. In this regard he is the best leader in the world -- he's a wise Pimp - he got clean hoes!!

Ask a black-cuban about Che -- Batista was Mafioso (a bad man) but black-cubans held higher ranking positions in both public and private business under Batista than Fidel.

Che is like Gen Robert E. Lee to us as Lee is not MLK Jr to Blacks in America.

I'm not an American Corporatist -- I'm a very specific kind of Minarchist (a Consumer-Anarchist (an Individualist)) who believes there a need for a temporary and highly specific kind of gov't with no lobbying or regulatory power in the markets.

You obviously have never lived in an Involuntary Communist country -- I recommend Cuba or Korea as starters.

[Plagueround]

#7 -- There is a huge difference between American Corporatism -- which I adamently oppose and have done so in the over 30 posts I've submitted here on Rev Left -- A "corporatist free-market" is auto-moronic. I support a market-anarchy in the sense that "anarchy" means: "an" - not or no and "arche" - rule or sovereignty. This means that my labor dollars belong to me and I distribute them as I please -- That's Anarchism and the definition of Choice or Voluntarism.


You still haven't really answered as to how this system provides basic necessities to those that can no longer work, or are unable to afford it due to the "bad luck" that a capitalist system perpetuates. Corporatism can't be solely blamed for people withholding money from others for the sake of their own profits. If you recall, the other part of anarchism is the abolotion of hierarchy and control over others. How does one abolish this control and inequality if people can hold resources hostage for a dollar amount that they are not even necessarily willing to give out?

[Octobox]

Plaguer: I love your questions -- because they are penetrating/challenging.



You still haven't really answered as to how this system provides basic necessities to those that can no longer work, or are unable to afford it due to the "bad luck" that a capitalist system perpetuates. Corporatism can't be solely blamed for people withholding money from others for the sake of their own profits. If you recall, the other part of anarchism is the abolotion of hierarchy and control over others. How does one abolish this control and inequality if people can hold resources hostage for a dollar amount that they are not even necessarily willing to give out?


Let’s review first

Involuntary Capitalist Model -- American Corporatist Revenue Stream: 1) Consumers-who-Purchase, 2) Consumers-who-Invest, and 3) Gov’t Subsidization (Bailouts, Regulatory Advantages, Tax Breaks). In this society (like America) you lose approximately 9 to 10 months per year worth of “real” wages toward direct taxation and indirect taxation (inflationary tax and lobbying costs). Lobbying Cost are a Groupist Tax that the Wealthy, the Unionized, and the Corporatist must pay to steal regulatory or bailout advantages from the scarce and finite resources.

Voluntary Minarchist Model -- Market Anarchist Revenue Steam: 1) Consumers-who-Purchase and 2) Consumers-who-Invest ------- In a free-market there are no protections for consumers or producers; “buyer and seller beware.” This begets wisdom whereas protectionism begets dependency and a sluggish mind.

The Voluntary Minarchist Model is a temporary transitional Gov’t – the goal would be a world where Zero Protectionism is needed and thus the maximization of “true” Liberty. In the model I presented above the Central Gov’t and State Gov’t have Zero Regulatory Power over the Corporation or the Individual-Consumer. Voluntarism always removes the groupist lobbying power by the elimination of regulatory power in the markets. Involuntarism is Groupist and Voluntarism is Individualist.

Is it obvious how in the Minarchist Model monopolies cannot form? – therefore there cannot be corporate tyrants in the long-run or even in the mid-run. In the short-run there can be tyrants; however, without regulatory advantages, tax breaks, bailouts, or subsidizations they can only beg for income from the “consumer-who-purchases” or the “consumer-who-invests” (the latter in a “truly” free-market follows the “will-of-the-people” or “will-of-the-consumers-who-purchase” – for the exact same reason the corporation does).

Meditate on what that means and your questions become self-evident: Anarchism in Currency, Anarchism in all private Markets, Anarchism in Insurance/Healthcare, and Anarchism in Welfare -- with a Minarchism at the State and Central Level to handle the duties I assigned them -- hahaha.

Excellent Questions:

#1 – People hold out because of diminishing “real” income (diminishing purchasing power owing to the Fiat Effect of perpetual Money Printing by the Fed). Additionally, they withhold because of increasing taxation with diminishing benefit – somehow the budgets go up and the services go down (probably owing to the Welfare Effect on Illegal Immigrants – 18M or so people).

#2 – In the Minarchism I’m suggesting responsibility falls on the individual (1st), his/her first 100 family members (2nd), his/her first 1000 neighbors (3rd), and then to the least extent to his City/County (4th).

This would apply to the homeless and the infirm; for fees, penalties, lawsuits, and criminal/incarceration costs. Private Insurance firms would compete to cover these costs. None of it would come out of Gov’t Welfare. "Good" communities who strive to enrich the lives of their children and their member body should not be punished (taxed - involuntarily) for the laziness and disconnectedness of any other community. The "cost" to bad communities, neighbors, and families will cause preventative measures -- families would become closer (work through issues) and neighbors would become truly united in "common unity" (community). You can't do this when you offshore the problems of individuals and communities to other individuals and communities 1000 miles away.

#3 – When people are not stressed out by all the taxes and inflation they will naturally “give” more – for all of human history people received welfare primarily from family, community, and voluntary society (like church or civic organization).

Anarchism is “scary” because it requires a leap of faith that without Gov’t (as horribly inefficient and un-successful as it is to provide benefit with diminishing costs like all other “free-market” organizations) we will be “safer.” Anarchism means self-rule and Minarchism means 93% self-rule. 1% tax to central gov’t to run Navy, 3% to states to run (kidnapping, rape, murder, and “yard-stick” competitive oversight in privatized roads and highways), and 3% temporary sales tax to pay-off foreign debt. Adds up to 7%, thusly 93% self-rule or 93% anarchism.

In the Minarchism I’m suggesting the dollar would switch from being literally a “debt instrument” (as it is now) toward a “value instrument.” This would make America the securest investment in the world and the “freest” nation – owing to a 93% anarchist society. Other nations owing to the exponentially increasing strength of the American Economy (if it be as I’m describing) would move rapidly toward a Voluntary Society – when that happens we will expand from 93% anarchist to 99% anarchist. Personally I think there always needs to be a Navy, Air Guard, and Army Guard for purpose of rescue.